Cost of ownership "budget"

[J0nathan225]

I'm still just a digital tire kicker at this point, hard not to be while overseas, but thought I'd post what my "near-beer"  math has come up with for annual ownership costs.  I understand some years are better than others with regards to maintenance (MX) and expect as I gain hours in type my insurance will come down. I plan to keep $10-15k in a savings account from the start to cover any unforeseen costs. As that account grows, knock on wood, I can pay off the plane sooner because interest is no bueno. That being said I am OK with paying interest, as little as possible though, so I can enjoy life A.K.A the plane sooner. 

Here is what I'm figuring:

1500	ENG/Upgrades
2000	insurance
4500	MX/Annual
4500	fuel
4200	finance
100	storage
16800	annually
1400	monthly

 

Sharp shoot away and/or share your experiences, I've read a lot of posts about this subject, but getting new 2016-2017 annual expenses from people never hurts. IF I can get a hanger and stay below ~$300 monthly that will be my choice, otherwise I plan to invest in engine, cockpit and wing covers  for a few years as I will be PCSing (moving) at least 3 times in the next 5 years.  What I'm looking to purchase in 6mos-1year is a M20C-E (maybe F)  <1500 SMOH with: Alt hold AP, 430+, tanks resealed in the last 10yrs or bladders(preferred... no debate required), Engine Monitor, and ADSB in/out.

 

-Jon. 

 

[carusoam]

My engine upgrade was slightly larger than 1.5 amu...

Fuel is as much as you want to fly...

Some people use 100 hours for their math...

It can be challenging to reach 50 hours some years...

hangar cost are regional, and quality based...

my biggest expenses... that can be planned in advance...

• annual
• hangar
• insurance
• finance, while the interest rates are low....
• fuel for 100hours at 15 gph... $4/gal?

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

#1:  Determine your disposable income

#2:  Your operating expenses = all of it

Although written as a joke, there is some truth to this.  We have one owner/member here who is flying an M20C for very little due to low acquisition cost and a lot of his own personal sweat equity.  We have other owners who have similar airplanes and who have dropped $30k on avionics upgrades.  

To a certain degree, your budget will determine your course of action, and your wishlist will be just a bit more than your spouse will let you spend.

[Guitarmaster]

She is your mistress now. Just sayin’


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[gsxrpilot]

I've always paid cash and have an instrument rating with over 500 in type so insurance is reasonable. With that said, when I flew a C, $15K a year all in gave me 200 hours of flying and everything else including some upgrades. With my 252, the number is closer to $20K a year.

[MIm20c]

You need to consider both time and money spent for plane ownership. Many times one can be substituted with the other when trying to balance the budget.  

You can spend time with family/friends or the plane.

You can work on the plane or fly the plane.

You can pick up hours at work or find an IA that will let you wrench on the plane. 

You can work on ratings or your panel. 

For me time is a priority, can’t get it all done by myself.

[Drumstick]

The only costs that have matched my predictions are the fixed costs.  Aka - loan/hangar.   Every other expense has been exceeded as things pop up.   Fuel/operating costs alone were much higher than I expected due to unforeseen ramp/landing fees.  (Unexpected trip to Hilton Head included $60 landing fee and $7 fuel)

Dont forget supplies/tools/iPads will exceed your estimates.   Remember that the a 430 needs $500 annually to keep current and foreflight or XM cost money as well.

[Browncbr1]

Whatever you budget, forget it.   Once you get the plane, then you start jones’n for upgrades.  

If you need to finance purchase, I don’t recommend getting a plane.  Or get a make/model that you can afford with cash.    It will be too much of a drain on your resources and set you up for tough decisions ahead.     Just don’t buy anything thinking you can fix this and that and come out ahead.  

[Jerry 5TJ]

Just now, Browncbr1 said:

Whatever you budget, forget it.   .... 

I’d offer this slight revision:  “Whatever you budget, double it.”

 

[Mooneymite]

The greatest expense imagineable is a plane you don't fly, or don't fly enough.  All those fixed expenses are money out the window...every month and the plane sits and deteriorates.

Budget plenty for fuel and traveling expenses every month.  Travel is expensive...hotels, rental cars, admission fees, etc. in addition to fuel and ramp fees..  If you're not wanting to travel much, get a knockabout plane, not a traveling machine like a Mooney, or a Beech.

[Raptor05121]

Hey Jon,

Sorry we didn't get a chance to meet up. Any idea when you will be back? I'm still game to finding a day to get out that way.

I'm also averaging about $15k a year for 200hrs of flying. That has included my pop-up expenses that left me grounded for a month here and a month there. My biggest "I wish" is instrumentation. I keep pining after a Garmin 430W, but to install one would be 100% of my plane's value. Be sure to find a model kitted out with what you want. Previous installations will lose 50% of their value when they sell- their loss is your gain.

[Browncbr1]

14 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I’d offer this slight revision:  “Whatever you budget, double it.”

 

Or in my case, triple it.   

[MIm20c]

Two members above mentioned 15k for 200 hrs which for a cheaper C - F is dead on. Probably around 10k for 100 hrs. This is not including large upgrades or expensive trips and trying to be frugal as much as possible. 

[tigers2007]

I hit the one-year of ownership anniversary next week. Under 200 total time and zero retract time gave me a $1800 insurance bill. My renewal will be $1200.


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[clh]

over the last 10 years of ownership the cost has averaged between 10 and 14k.  Hours have been about 95/yr.    This does not include payments since I non-essential items with cash.   The biggest impact on my costs have been if I can assist during maintenance.  It seems to make a large difference if I turn the wrenches (under supervision) or if I pay to have them turned.  

I would plan on about $1k/month +loan.   I would also plan on building a $10k or so fund for unexpected items. (new prop, new engine, impulse buy of avionics) 

If you can plan your spend, you have a much better control of the spend than if you just wait for your mechanic to tell you the bad news.   For instance, I got a really great deal on my engine because I was opportunity shopping.   Plane was back in the air in less than 4 weeks for an attractive price.   On the other hand, when my propeller decided it needed attention, there was no deal to be had and I paid a not great deal price.  (AOG is the most expensive way to repair a plane.)

I will say that having your own plane is great.   Somewhat expensive, but great.

 

[Marauder]

Not sure if your numbers include reserves for engine and avionics. I don’t budget, my actual costs run between $20AMU and $28AMU depending on how much flying I do and how many issues I have during the year.

 

Another thing I keep track in the costs are all the subscription costs and aviation extras. People have a way of kidding themselves into believing that the other expenses are not aviation related (like databases, headsets, iPad app subscriptions). I always ask, if I didn’t own the plane would I incur this expense. If yes, it gets counted in.

 

 

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[gsxrpilot]

What @Raptor05121 said. You're always money ahead buying the plane you want rather than one to upgrade.

I don't budget for engine/overhaul. I budgeted for a plane that I could afford to pay cash and afford an engine when it's required. It might still make sense to finance, but I wouldn't finance because it was out of reach otherwise. I started with a C and after two years and 400 hours, I'd learned two things. First, I was definitely using the plane. 200 hours per year of almost all cross country flying is perfect for a Mooney. Second I realized I could afford a bit more than the C. So I sold it an bought a 252. 

Then I did get a little carried away with the panel, but didn't pay retail for any of it and haven't missed a mortgage payment or bounced a check, and we've still got Ramen noodles in the pantry, so I think we'll make it. 

[clh]

4 hours ago, Marauder said:

Not sure if your numbers include reserves for engine and avionics. I don’t budget, my actual costs run between $20AMU and $28AMU depending on how much flying I do and how many issues I have during the year."

I don't include reserves for engine or avionics.   I replaced the engine last  year.  It was just something I knew would be coming since I purchased the plane.   I retired the old engine with 1900 hrs and 30 yrs simply because I came across a new engine for a good price and decided to change out before the old one gave its last breath.  Many folks here would say I jumped too early, but so be it..

As to avionics, I have a pretty basic setup.   IFR GPS, two Radios with GS,  autopilot with alt hold, and an engine monitor.   The sky is the limit on upgrades that are really nice to look at, but not necessary for flight. (I do like looking at your fancy panels, have something like that would compromise my status as a CB)

[bonal]

Certainly agree on the pay in full cant see financing such a non essential item, that said our Converted D is about the bargain basement of this group the avionics are simple VFR but since I have no desire to fly in IMC its not something I am compelled to upgrade.  The most costly thing I have had to factor into ownership was not having done a pre purchase inspection. Lots of discussion  here about them and they are no guarantee you will not get a big expensive repair but you can save a ton by avoiding something major that might be in your first annual because no one bother to do a proper inspection. I really try not thinking about how much this activity costs me but how much I would hate it if I had to give it up.  IMHO you really cant budget this you just have to dive in and then you will know how much it costs. Insurance and storage are predictalble but thats about it unless you finance then of course your monthly paments can be pre determined as well.  Hope you are able to join in the fun.  And like the Master Card commercials say

"being able to take to the sky when and wherever you choose...priceless"

[RobertGary1]

I kind of agree with what others have said. If I had to finance my airplanes I wouldn't have bought them.  We had one guy here who financed an airplane (C model) and later found corrosion and said he was going to have to total the plane out. Had to explain to his wife he'd be making payments on a plane he didn't have for years. 

Over the years I've had a few "holy crap" unexpected repair bills in the 5 figure range. I'd hate to have to figure payments on top of that.

 

-Robert

[Guest]

I thought that you guys get to write off interest against income? If so why not finance a portion and get a better airplane?

Clarence

[Andy95W]

That's only mortgage interest, and that's probably not for long...

[TonyK]

Just a observation.  You are only one bad phone call from your AP away from writing really big checks.  The worst is paying out every month for a aircraft that is grounded because you can't afford to fix it. Budget for the worst and hope for the best.

[Yetti]

This is my year 3 actuals

[neilpilot]

22 minutes ago, Yetti said:

This is my year 3 actuals

Assuming cheap ($3/gal) gas, and 10 gal/hr fuel burn it seems that you are only flying 20 hour/year.  If that's the case, then your out of pocket flying is costing about $340/hr.  Maybe you need to fly more or get a partner? 

 

In 2016 87Q was flow 160 hours.  Maintenance included a cylinder, AP elevator servo, nose truss replacement and ADS-B install.  Our costs were as follows: