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RobertGary1 last won the day on March 5 2018

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  1. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    @bradp I do still agree that you could make an argument to include speculative data in your lesson plan where it complements a specific lesson objective but I don't and you don't see this in good seminars or Check Pilot school etc for a few reasons. Unlike the movies we know that people aren't good and evil. You could tell the student about a recent accident, something you feel the pilot did very wrong and tell the student "don't be that guy". But compare that to using factual findings. Any fatal accident, civilian or military that include human factors will include detailed information about the pilot background, recency of experience, the official weather briefings he saught, motivational factors, etc. For instance did he feel pressure because he was late for a meeting, did a mechanical issue delay a departure? Did he feel a false sense of security because he'd flown that route many times maybe in similar weather? A factual report will include detailed aviation weather information. Did the weather look better on a different route? Did he initially plan that other route? Why did he then alter his route? Or did the forecast he was given provide for a weather improvement that didn't materialize? Did he pull up the wrong forecast (yes, this has happened) This and a hundred other things could have affected the flight. As part of the lesson plan you can print out the full NTSB (or military if you are in that env) and have the student read the entire set of factual findings. Your goal should be for the pilot to come away with "Wow, I can see how even a pilot could fall into a bad situation through this type of chain of events". You'll never get that from speculative information based on a few questionable newspaper mentions. What you want to avoid is painting an artificially black and white picture to the student so the student goes away with "Oh, I'd never do anything like that so I don't have to worry". So, for me, the speculative accident information is too devoid of the narrative of what leads to accidents to be a useful training aid considering we have a wealth of factual reports from which we can draw on in an instructional environment. -Robert
  2. RobertGary1

    Realistic Maximum Value for 1976 M20F

    You don’t need $50k for a panel. A gtn 650 and gtx 345 will make you modern ads-b and lpv approach ready for mid $20k’s. You’ll be able to do the same stuff we do in the g1000 -Robert
  3. RobertGary1

    Contrarian attitude in your CFI

    May just not be a good personality match for you. Is it difficult to just get a different CFI? -Robert
  4. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    I agree the FAA would speak with the CFI. But it would depend on if the CFI had endorsed him for this flight and, if he did, what limitations did he place on the student. I don't think its fair (or common) for us to be held accountable for student actions if they are operating outside of their endorsements. -Robert
  5. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    @bradp I have a couple disagreements with your endorsement for speculative based learning 1) Its not really fair to the pilot or family to publicly share opinions on what could have caused an accident before factual data is released. We know that early news articles are rarely very accurate. I've seen this happen to several friends, its very sad. 2) Myths persist forever. We all know of numerous accidents in which everyone knows what caused it. Except when you go back and read the final NTSB they're wrong. Is that a positive learning experience? Off the top of my head a couple accidents in which pilots are shocked when you tell them they are wrong. 1) We had an A36 crash on take off from our field killing 2. Everyone said he took off with a tailwind. The NTSB determined it wasn't a tailwind but unexpected sheer. So pilots run through the coals for no reason 2) DC-8 crashed killing all. Initial speculation was that cargo was not tied down correctly and the ground crew were blamed. But almost no one knows that the actual cause turned out to be a mechanical failure with the elevator. I feel so bad for that innocent ground crew. Years later when you tell a local group of pilots this they are very surprised. 3) Early speculation is going to be based on pilot's perception of what happens and news reporter's layman's understanding. Using that information is very counter to a scientific approach to safety analyst. Its very self fulfilling and each accident is used by pilots to confirm what they think they know. But actual factual data is what we need to focus on, evidence based learning, not self-affirming. If there was a lack of NSTB reports to draw from for training I'd agree with you but there isn't. Every other year when I go to CAP Check Pilot school we study several accidents, civilian and military. We don't have to speculate on accidents because we have enough factual data from NSTB, military, reports. So I focus training on factual NTSB reports. There are many very interesting ones to draw from. -Robert
  6. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    If you think reasonable doubt is good enough to publicly declare this guy was a fool that's fine by me. I'm just saying I'll wait for the NTSB out of respect for him and his family thank you. -Robert
  7. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    Yes, this is my point. Obviously some of these reports are inaccurate. FAA records are so far behind I woudln't read too much into that. We're seeing 120 day temps expire before the FAA updates the registry and issues certificates.
  8. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    You're thinking he got his student certificate 5 months ago and his private 3 months ago? That's certainly possible too. FAA pilot's records are taking so long to update I'm not basing too much on that. Like I said I've had to take students down to renew 120 day temps because the FAA processing is so behind. -Robert
  9. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    The article from nbcbayarea quotes his father as saying "Chris got his pilot's license 5 months ago". Just goes to my point that we're making a lot of assumptions based on in iniitalnews reports that nearly always turn out to be inaccurate to some degree.
  10. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    Any of those are possible. I've certainly had to take students down to the FSDO because their new certificate isn't processed by the FAA within the 120 day limit. Was this his first student pilot certificate in 10/2018 or did he have to renew it? His dad says he got his "license" 5 months ago whichever license that is. -Robert
  11. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    The article I'm reading his father said "Flying was his passion... Chris got his pilot's license about five months ago". Could it be that an initial report that he was a student was wrong?
  12. RobertGary1

    Training standardization

    I just teach my students to trim for hands off flight at the over the fence speed. Not had any issues with that. Adding excess nose up trim may not have them set up correctly for go around. -Robert
  13. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    So why not use actual NTSB reports for that discussion? They are more accurate and have more details. Ive never been to a pilot seminar (professional or ga) in which the presenter makes a presentation based on an accident for which no investigative results have even been published. -Robert
  14. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    So based on that you can feel comfortable it wouldn't have happened to you. You feel better afterwards. I thik otherwise you'd be happy to wait for investigators. -Robert
  15. RobertGary1

    Mooney down in Hayward CA

    100% agree. But do you wait for evidence or base it on initial speculation? -Robert