Leaderboard

So I could be smiling like this!!!!!! For a little while I’ll be the newest Instrument Rated pilot:) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Flew down to Fort Lauderdale to pick up my girl from Edison at Wet Wingologists East after getting her tanks resealsed. Before I left, she got parked in front of the FBO buildings and trees and I thought she was looking particularly good and had a nice background. So I just wanted to share.

Dear MS members, Occasionally we meet people who have an outsize presence. Like the sun they radiate energy that makes those around them feel or perform better. The man who has been working on our Mooney as A&P since we bought her in 2017, David Forgac, passed away last weekend. Dave was one of those people. My wife and I helped him on two owner-assisted annuals, he supervised us installing the EDM900, performed several repairs on our plane, and was CFII for several of my instrument training flights. I found that he was always a kind and patient instructor. His experience working for a Mooney Service Center in Florida years ago really helped with our plane. Today I received a link to his obituary as was written by his family. It is a good description of someone truly passionate about aviation and of a life well lived that ended too early. I can attest to Dave's nature as a passionate and natural teacher. Dave's obituary is here: http://www.northportfuneralservice.com/mr-david-forgac/ Dave passed away last Friday after a short illness at the age of 65. I wanted to share his memory with those of you who care to read his obituary. -Fred

I have experience with Ethiopian Airlines going back to 1976 and my family has ties to Ethiopian Airlines going back to when it was still on the drawing board in the 1940's.* I've flown Ethiopian Airlines several times every year for the last few years. On a recent flight I was seated next to the Boeing VP from Seattle who covers Africa. He said they were Boeing's best customer in Africa and second place wasn't even close. They also fly one of the most modern fleets anywhere in the world. I've flown lots of airlines around the world and around Africa. And Ethiopian Airlines is the premier Airline in Africa and actually a very nice airline to fly anywhere in the world. They are almost a 100% Boeing fleet, and is the largest airline in Africa. I've also done quite a bit of business with their Parent Corp, Ethiopia Group, which includes their training arm. While GA is virtually non-existent in this and many parts of the world, Ethiopian runs a very large and well respected Aviation Academy. I would not believe the reports you're seeing in the media of low hours and low experience. When I visited their training academy, I was shocked at how modern and extensive it was. They have huge classes that start every year and most are weeded out early leaving only the best and most talented. They also train pilots from all over Africa as well as Asia. There are also a very large number of female pilots flying for Ethiopian Airlines. Notably on the first Dreamliner flight from Addis (the capital) to Riyadh (capital of Saudi Arabia), Ethiopian Airlines sent it with an entire female crew. Captain, FO, Purser, and all flight attendants were female, just to make a point. Classes at the aviation academy are almost 50% female. It's still Africa, but Ethiopian Airlines is not some third world operation. But rather a proper modern airline with standards that would be considered rigorous anywhere in the world. *My grandfather, Dr. Claude Steen Jr. an American missionary, was the very first Chief Medical Officer and Flight Surgeon for Ethiopian Airlines and the first AME in Ethiopia. In 1945, Emperor Haile Selassie sent my Grandfather back to the US to interview HH Holloway to be the first GM of Ethiopian Airlines. --and now you know the rest of the story.

What are these sectionals and charts you speak of? Are they new apps? Tom

Well, I haven’t posted a recent life changing medical issue I encountered 6 weeks ago. I got a simple, routine, small cut on my pinky finger on Tuesday, January 22th. An antibacterial soap cleaning and bandaid was all that was required and I went 54 hours with no pain or swelling, seemed a pretty benign situation. Then swelling and pain started, and within 3 hours of first symptom I had every finger and thumb swelling and in extreme pain. I even had pain in the palm, wrist, and shooting up to my elbow. Holy crap..... I went straight to my local hospital emergency department. Something was seriously wrong!!! After 8 hours of a pain level of 10, with nothing knocking out or even reducing the pain, I was sent to emergency surgery with an infection radiated from the finger, through my tendons, to my carpal tunnel area on Friday morning. An 8” cut to my wrist and complete open of the pinky (5-6 stitches) and 3.5 days of IV pain killers and antibiotics got me discharged by noon the following Monday. Transitioned to oral antibiotics and pain killers, it only took about 8 hours at home to realize this was going south again. Back to the emergency department, thankfully the same crew, with the doctor putting me under since he knew nothing from his pain killer arsenal was going to give me relief. Back into emergency surgery again early Tuesday morning, with a stitch count now exceeding 25 as the infected areas were expanded, my surgeon thought she had the infection cleaned sufficiently now. They installed a PICC line for a 21 day antibiotic regimen and I started a 10 week therapy program. It was determined to be Strep, which a pilot doctor later told me LIVES on our skin, as the strain of infection. I was also told had I delayed treatment at all, it would have spread to my bone, resulting in amputation of my left hand. HOLY CRAP!!!! So, although recovery has been excruciatingly slow, with no ability to squeeze fingers into a fist, yesterday and today were milestone moments. I have barely enough squeezing function to hold the side stick on my Lancair, but decided to fly with my flight instructor yesterday with an ace wrap holding my hand to the stick in case a gust came up that could jog the stick out of my hand. It went really well. Today I performed a medical flight and it went very well. Nice to be back in the air! Now just hoping I will not need further surgery to get finger function back!!! And......... 20 knot headwinds aren’t so bad in this plane. Tom

Friends, Romans, Countrymen, Peeps, and MSers.... I was up late catching up with all the reading.... I realized how late it was when a few of you got into work.... From my screen... MS looks like a giant community with lots of M20 pilots.... From your screens at 6am... it looks like I am hogging up all of MS! You know I had a hard time sending Craig a message... he probably got a cellphone buzz at 3am when it came in...on the west coast! Just a small detail that needed a fix... Sorry it took so long to check in... i’ve Been wiping the tears of joy and laughter off the touch screen, but it’s still not dry enough to use... MS is a 24hour, 7day, world wide, hot spot, for a global community of awesome Mooney pilots and maintenance people... At MS, your plane may be AOG... but you are never alone.... Thank you everybody, your sense of humor and camaraderie are greatly appreciated... PP thoughts only, not a sleep expert... let’s start this again, soon... Best regards, -a-

We flew to the Grand Canyon and Lake Powell from Sedona. It was a perfect day for flying and the scenery was spectacular. Even our pictures don’t do justice to the natural beauty. This was definitely a Mooney flight of a lifetime. We feel blessed and privileged that we can do this flight in our Mooney. A few pictures (or it didn’t happen): Grand Canyon, Dragon Corridor: Grand Canyon, Zuni Corridor: Lake Powell: Final approach to Sedona RWY 03:

Hull values have been discussed on this forum many times, so I've put together a post detailing hull value strategy when talking to your insurance agent. Unlike most standard automotive policies, almost all aviation insurance companies insure aircraft physical damage using Agreed Values. That is, the Insured and the Company agree to a value that the aircraft is worth in the event of a total loss. But what should you choose for an agreed value of your Mooney? The short answer: Insure your aircraft for a value at which you could replace your plane with one of like kind and quality. The long answer is a bit more thoughtful: Insurance companies will agree to a wide range of aircraft values. This is typically in the range of Blue Book value +/- 25%-50% depending on the age and type of the aircraft. And that Blue Book Value can take into account the engine hours, equipment, and condition of the aircraft if the owner provides hull value justification to the insurance company. A quick look through the aircraft classifieds can give you a starting range of what to consider for your aircraft's hull value. Try to find the most similar aircraft to yours and make adjustments based on condition, equipment, and airframe & engine hours. You may find, however, that you have a very uniquely modified airplane with much more investment than you can find of similar aircraft in the classified ads. So what should you do? Still, find the closest example to what you have and figure the cost to modify the plane to what you currently have. A word on under-insuring: If you own an unmodified aircraft that could sell tomorrow for $50,000 and only insure it for $35,000 because that's what you paid 10 years ago, you could find yourself in an unfortunate situation in the event of an occurrence - let's say a nosegear collapse. The insurance company gets your claim and assigns an adjuster. He surveys the damage and discovers you're looking at a $10,000 engine teardown, an $8,000 propeller, and $6,000 of other minor damage. All-in, it's $24,000 in damage. You have a $0 deductible. Knowing that the aircraft has decent salvage value, the adjuster requests bids from aircraft salvage companies. Three salvage companies offer $12,000, $14,500, and $13,200. Insured Value - Salvage Bid = max the company will pay to fix your airplane (in most cases) As you can see from the above example, the insurance company would lose less money by selling the aircraft for salvage. But they would first likely offer to pay you a Total Loss and you buy the salvage back from them. In light of this example, be sure to re-evaluate your hull values every year for changing market conditions. Now the owner has a $35,000 check in hand but discovers all the planes of like kind and quality cost about $50,000. A word on over-insuring: You sold your business in 2004 and called up Mooney to order a new 2004 Mooney M20R with a purchase price of $500,000. All these years you keep the hull value the same. While on vacation in Florida, a tornado rips through the airport and throws two airplanes on top of your Mooney. The propeller has been struck, all the glass is broken. You've got dents and tears all over the skin. You're looking at a $180,000 repair bill on an aircraft that's worth about $250,000. Salvage bids are in the $70,000 range. It's not a total loss. Now you have an airplane that's special to you, but that no one would want to buy from you. If you'd insured it for $250,000, the insurance company would have written you a check and taken your plane. But insured for $500,000, they can make a lot of repairs. They have no interest in paying you $500,000 for an airplane which is only worth $70,000 to them (net loss of $430,000 plus their expenses). Even if the repairs went over the estimates and it cost them $250,000, they are still much better off! Feel free to ask any questions or give me a call at 214-295-5055 if you wish to discuss your insured value. In dealing with Airspeed Insurance Agency, you'll be talking to an insurance agent who has also owned a few aircraft. Blue Skies!

Jennifer, I told you to stay off my airplane forums! I know it’s you, mooneyspacers don’t rat out other mooneyspacers spending habits! (Sorry guys, I think 40-0Flight might be my wife, she’s obviously trying to find out where my daughter college fund is going!)

Grandson took Woopie Pies to school today.

The correct direction to be converting.

As the original OP on this thread I'm going to stick my neck out here a little. I find this entire argument somewhat silly. Many are trying to compare this instrument to a full on flight director system. It ain't and it never was supposed to be anything near a full on FD system. It is to replace the old vac system instruments- 1 for 1. And that's it. If you fly high and you fly over terrain or weather that limits your options?, if you "need" a full on FD- You need something else than the Av30. It's your risk assessment! All it costs is more money. Why knock something for a job it was never designed to do? Now lets talk batteries. You worry about a 1/2 hr rating for a 3rd backup. Any idea what a Boeing 737 has for a ships battery back up time if you go DC only? How about 30 mins (in the ones I flew). That is why we taught our pilots that if they go DC only- GYAOTG!!! NOW! And that was from 35,000 feet! Going dead alternator, in our airplanes, is the same issue!!! If the Aspen drops into battery back up mode at gen failure voltage then that is a design problem. But, if you are IMC and you lose your alternator - HOW MUCH FURTHER ARE YOU GOING TO FLY BEFORE YOU GO "GYAOTG" mode? You gonna wait until you run out of ships battery? Without an alternator (or back up one) you are in emergency mode the moment it fails if you are IMC! GYAOTG! NOW! Just a fact of life flying something without dual gens. How many thousands of airplane have operated IMC with only a single Vac pump? What has been the rate of failure to land if it fails? Your backup was your T&B. Did you know how to complete an emergency decent using it? How far did you fly when you lost the vac pump? Not far, you went GYAOTG mode and landed. Here's a final point in this diatribe- How many of you follow the ships battery maker's directions to a "T" both in initial charging and in the CAW requirements to do a capacity check on your battery every annual? Does your shop even have the proper gear to do a capacity check properly? I'll bet 1 out of 100 of you do either. In my 55 years as an A&P I've seen very few shops ever do the initial charge by the book and almost every airplane owner has no idea what the CAW is or for on their battery. How many of you have "jump started" your airplane with a dead battery? Why didn't you take it out and recharge it "by the book" and THEN check it for capacity? What if you had to rely on it 20 mins after takeoff? Like an inflight fire , emergency return and you have an electrically powered gear? Will it go down or do you now have to fight a fire and figure out your alternate gear extension system? You do know that if it goes flat, it losses capacity, don't you? How many of you feel that if it starts the engine its OK to rely on? NOT!!! How many of you fly your battery until it won't start the engine anymore and THEN and ONLY THEN do you buy a new one? But yet you fly IMC a lot of the time. HMMMMM. How many of you really know how long your ship's battery will last if its needed? Have you ever checked it? (Just too many years of trying to make some understand certain limitations). We sit here and worry about a third backup instrument not working but we toss out the second item-(and most important backup) the ship's battery- without even a thought, year to year, by most. The AV30 was never meant to be a full on FD but it is a damn fine replacement for the vac system instruments and very useful for limited IMC- just like the old vac system stuff was only the Av30 eliminates the vac system problems. If its really an issue you could always install a second ADI and power it with a venturi. Then, if you have airspeed you have a solid horizon instrument. Some of us flew IMC a lot with only venturi driven instruments. Now, if you want to know why ALL jets have a third battery driven ADI (separate from the entire a/c electrical system), I can tell you the story in another thread. Stepping off the soap box.

A few months ago I flew down to the good people at Mooney in Kerrville, TX to have them complete the tail Service Bulletin that came out in December. During their work, they discovered both of my batteries were never secured by the screw down clamps and safety wired. My #1 battery was all scratched up and gouged from bouncing around for 11 months and completely out of it's containment tray. The battery had severly damaged at least 12 wires back in the avionics compartment, and the wires had to be replaced. I was delayed 1 and 1/2 days at Mooney because of the wiring that needed to be replaced. I was very lucky I didn't have a fire or some type of failure during the last 11 months while flying as high as 25,000 feet. My annual last year was accomplished at a MSC that's been in business for 30+ years. I use to live by the motto of "Trust, but Verify", now I just don't trust anymore. It's sad that its come to that, but my experience is that some people just don't do their job, get distracted, and never finish the work properly. All at the aircraft owner's expense, after paying $5,000+ for an annual. There's been too many instances where I go in for maintenance, and they screw things up badly. It's happened at every annual for the last 3 years. When I speak to the owners or shop foreman, they advise me that their senior guys are retiring and it's hard to find anyone experienced. At my last annual, I barely recognized anyone from the year before. They tell me it's a big problem. It didn't start out well, when the young mechanic working on my plane at my last annual last month tells me, "I incorrectly installed a part in a Cessna Centurion a few years ago, and it almost killed a family of four". I'm not trying to discredit MSC mechanics, I'm just trying to make owners aware that when the plane comes out of maintenance, there's a GOOD chance that something got put back incorrectly or forgotten. WE are the last line of defense!

Personal overkill . . .

It IS AMAZING how we take so many things for granted until we encounter something that really wakes us up. I was running 20-30 miles a week, doing 2 hour daily work outs, lost 20 pounds, getting in shape as a 63 year old competitive soccer referee, and had this crazy medical issue surface. Makes you appreciate life itself! Tom

I respectfully disagree. Although SOME models may NOT reflect value, I closed on a sale if my Rocket at the very end of 2018 and clearly got $10k to $15k more for my TKS equipped Mooney. I think it has more to do with specific models on the market rather than “no value” for TKS Mooney’s. On another perspective, I’ve bought and had 4 TKS Systems installed on Mooney’s, Bonanzas and my Lancair turbo-prop. Three inadvertent systems and one certified “known icing”. Of the four, only ONE left me stranded with a failed system in icing.......two times. Not what you are likely wanting to hear...... but both failures were on the FIKI Bonanza plane! Not anything to do with FIKI, but it proves there’s little advantage, other than “legal”, to FIKI over “inadvertent”. If “FIKI” is important to you, go for it. If a safe outcome to your flight is the “real goal”, apply some common sense to your flight planning rather than relying on “being legal”. And a last note, my Lancair “non-certified” TKS will out perform the “FIKI” Bonanza by 200%,. And I have 2.5 thousand hours flying in icing conditions in the Great Lakes region over the last 18 years with 4 different airplanes equipped with TKS. Tom

The "down and dirty" way to check is to put the plane on jacks, wait 4 hours for the rubber to expand as far as they are going to, then try to rotate the discs by hand, It they turn easily or are loose, change them now. If they are a little tight, but you can move them, change them next annual. If you can't move them, don't worry about them. No true CB would change them on a "years in service" schedule.

OK! For the OP, Fred2O, here is the drag polar for the M20J, derived from the data in the 1220G POH (which was applicable to our Mooney, a 1977 M20J): Each one of the little "+" symbols is a line in the POH cruise data. For this POH, the best fit to the aggregate data is from the 6000' best power cruise data at 2740 lb GW, and the pink "+"s are from that particular data set. So the zero-lift drag coefficient is .01654, and the best-fit straight line above gives CD = .01654 +.082 CL2 Pretty close to what Skip wrote... that Mooney provided the clean polar as CD = 0.0164 + 0.072CL2 It took a LONG time to enter all that data into Benchmark.....but it could be done for the other models from the POH data. The M20J data are really good though. Curt Lopresti told me during a conversation once about how his dad was so proud of the torque meter they had installed for direct measurement of installed power for the M20J certification, and of course the other two secret weapons were legendary flight test engineers Fen and Dorothy Taylor. So to overcome drag, you need thrust. How much? Using the data set above and about 75% best power cruise, here is what is happening at the prop: Lots of eye candy here. 6000 feet, 75% best power cruise, 150 hp into the prop, 131.2 comes out due to prop efficiency. Even the old McCauley C212 is pretty good at about 87.5% efficiency. To describe this to jet jocks, the M20 goes ~163 knots on ~262 pounds of thrust. This translates to the airplane speed chart for these conditions, here: Cool stuff. Hope you guys like it.

Did someone call? Someone wants to see pictures of my airplane?!! :-) paint by J&M in middlebury vt.

Panel updated 2012 by Twin Lakes Avionics, Advance NC features GTN 750 w FS510, GDL 88, PFD 1000Pro w AOA, SV, ADS-B, EDM 930 w RAD, CYA 100 AOA. This year it will get a new autopilot upgrading the STEC 50 to the STEC 3100. The Aspen will go MAX. Considering adding an Aspen MFD with extended battery to eliminate back up ASI, T&B, ALT, AI. Paint by Hawk Aircraft Services, Zephyrhills FL June 2018. Owner design with help from Scheme Designers. Imron with 4 metallic trim colors. (Cowl is SabreCowl by GDS Aero - David Staffeldt.)

The adventure begins. A programming note to start this one off. To get the fuel servo off, you have to remove the starter, to get to the last bolt on the starter, you have to remove the alternator and the bracket. When I told the Servo repair shop that we found an orange O ring in it, he said that was from the 70s - 80s. I would guess it has never been touched. Full day project to remove with fuel divider and fuel nozzles. And I am sore. Much props to those A&Ps that do this day in and day out.

I've spent this week in my hangar stripping down my M20E for the annual inspection by @AGL Aviation. Lynn will inspect early next week and it will take me a couple of days to put everything back together before heading to KFMY to take in some Red Sox games. I want to share a few kudos that might be of interest to others here: Hawk Aircraft Painting did a great job painting the plane in 2018. (This is the first annual since picking up the plane.) Every nook and cranny that I got into had been properly prepped and painted. It is more than a pretty face. The PFS exhaust has 488 hours on it (installed June 2012). A pressure check is required (or recommended?) @ 500 hours so I removed the system and disassembled. The whole system looks new! I took a scotch pad to the heater shroud to remove baked on spilled oil. Looking spiffy. No kudos to the dufus who changes the oil and oil filter and manages to spill some oil every time. (That would be me. ) The Tempest fine wire spark plugs (same age as PFS) look fine. I suppose they'll last as long as the engine. Mooney built a very fine piece of machinery, even in the mid '60s when they were cranking out 750 planes a year. While the insides of Romeo Whiskey do not look as new as the outside, everything looks solid and very much "airworthy" and "worthy of future upgrades.

Glad to have tablets and smartphones running various apps to aid in flight. Glad that Boeing values the tools highly enough to buy a respected developer. Glad that Boeing has spent decades in fully CAD design of aviation innovations. Glad that I no longer have to mess with paper charts while hand-flying behind a single mechanical gyro powered by a single vacuum pump. Yesterday I filed my flight plan on my iPhone while sitting in the FBO lobby. Then I walked to the plane and used the iPhone to send the full-route plan wirelessly to the panel avionics. My late father used a clock, compass and kneeboard in his F4U to navigate on long submarine patrol flights. He always found the carrier (or I would not be here) but he certainly was impressed with the early handheld GPS I showed him in the 1990s. “Man, I wish I’d had one of those in the Corsair,” he said.

Not a Mooney but thought some people might enjoy seeing my new project. I flew commercial up to Boise Idaho, rented a box van, loaded the Kitfox and made the 14 hour drive home this past weekend. This is what the bones of a Kitfox STi looks like. I was looking at the Cub variants but decided I really wanted side by side seating. This plane also attracted me because it has retracting wings and can be easily trailered. It will have 29” tires, Garmin G3X panel and a turbo charged Rotax engine. I’m sure many have seen the Trent Palmer YouTube videos which has exponentially increased the demand for these. I was lucky to have ordered before the waiting list got long. It takes well over a year to get a kit now. So far I’m really impressed with the quality and thoroughness of the kit. After finishing my inventory of the thousands of parts not one missing item. Very well labeled and organized. The components are incredibly light. I’m hoping to document the build and will keep those interested posted on the progress.

Josh Flowers, the CFI, is a good friend of ours here in the Austin, TX area and many of us have flown with him. In fact we can say we all knew him way back when he was just learning to fly. He's a pretty low time CFI, but a CFI none the less and does have plenty of Mooney time. My thought watching the video was that I should invite him to go fly with me, and show him how to properly fly and engine manage a turbo Mooney But he does have a great YouTube channel and his video editing skills are legit. He's got a huge following of young aspiring pilots who follow his channel. And that's positive for all of us.

Not a Bug or a Suggestion... But a fun observation. @carusoam running the table this morning with the latest post on every single topic. #tryingtokeepup

Q: How much $$$ does this lovely addiction cost? A: All of it.

Unfortunately, you've asked the one question that we've all sworn never to answer.

1968 M20C

Longest trip so far with the whole family. ILM to EDC with a stop at NEW for the night. Heading back tomorrow ahead of some weather.

Today I flew home from Vegas. It was my first IFR flight on my new IR ticket.... the weather was clear and clear so didn’t get it wet. But I got about 5 reroutes so I got to work the brain in someway. The flight was just over five hours. The day started out pretty cool, when I got to the airport there was a can’t miss famous airplane tied up at the transient parking! And let me say it’s even cooler in person! And I got to fly formation with N201PH:) The instrument ticket was well worth the journey!!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve been a big fan of of the PC with Accu-Trak and AccuFlite, but lately have been tempted by one of the new autopilots coming to market. Both, the Accu-Trak and Accu-Flite just seemed a little sloppy in holding headings and track. I convinced myself that this is the way it always was. After annual, where I did the yoke shaft AD, it seemed a little worse. This past week, the system seemed exceptionally lazy for much of the flight, at times not even leveling the wings. This weekend I removed and cleaned the vacuum pilot valve....no real findings there. I started tracing things back, applying light vacuum to look for leaks and found the yoke disengage line was leaky. Pulling the yoke cover off, first thing I noticed was I had put the line on the wrong tube, it belongs on the innermost tube, however, I still had a leak. Focusing on the button, a visual inspection at the o rings revealed no obvious issues, however putting the button into the yoke revealed that the large (1/4”I’d x 1/16”) o ring was loose in the hole. Replaced it with a new one and it sealed up nicely. Test flight today in bumpy conditions and what a surprise. The system worked fantastic, has not performed this well in years...if ever. Instant response in wing level mode and held heading and track perfectly. It seems that a partial leak in the yoke button will allow the shuttle in the pilot valve to move part way....allowing some semblance of functionality, but not optimal functionality. In summary, sloppy wing leveler, check the o rings on the button. As a side note, in another thread I suggested removing the button if you want to disable the wing leveler for training or other reasons. Turns out, this likely wears the o ring in question, causing this issue. Otherwise this o ring remains static. Hope this saves someone a few $$.

I would say the lower the budget, the more careful one must be. The broker is correct that it's easy for a $30K airplane to have more than $30K worth of problems. I have a list of over 10 situations where someone bought a cheap Mooney only to spend close to, or over the purchase price just to get it airworthy. The problem here is that fixing things costs the same whether on a $30K M20C or a $120K M20J. If the tanks are leaking, the repair costs the same, if the landing gear pucks have to be replaced, it's the same cost, if the gear trusses are rusted and have to be replaced, the same costs. Avionics cost the same whether it goes in an M20C or an M20J. The difference is that spending $30K to improve a $120K J is reasonable. Doing the same for a $30K M20C doesn't make economic sense. Especially since $50K would probably buy a turn-key, well maintained, and upgraded M20C. I would not spend $30K on an airplane without having a very thorough PPI done by a shop that knows what they're doing with Mooney PPI's. And that's probably an MSC. Feel free to post the link to the plane. Chances are, someone here knows of it.

Ironically you are both quoting the same thing (essentially) and getting different interpretations. Our current icing guidance stems from the Bell legal interpretation letter that was to revise the FAA's stance that for a couple years preceding it was pretty close to saying known icing conditions where as simple as visible moisture at and below 32F. But the Bell letter was in response to an up roar that such an interpretation was totally unreasonable. I thought Rags did a good job of summarizing (its the same way I look at it) and the more recent AD put out in 2015 is directly in response to the legal interpretation of 2009. In understanding known Icing conditions its important to digest this paragraph from the legal definition: The formation of structural ice requires two elements: 1) the presence of visible moisture, and 2) an aircraft surface temperature at or below zero degrees Celsius. The FAA does not necessarily consider the mere presence of clouds (which may only contain ice crystals) or other forms of visible moisture at temperatures at or below freezing to be conducive to the formation of known ice or to constitute known icing conditions. There are many variables that influence whether ice will actually be detected or observed, or will form on and adhere to an aircraft. The size of the water droplets, the shape of the airfoil, and the speed of the aircraft, among other factors, can make a critical difference in the initiation and growth of structural ice. Most flight manuals and other related documents use the term "known icing conditions" rather than "known ice," a similar concept that has a different regulatory effect. "Known ice" involves the situation where ice formation is actually detected or observed. "Known icing conditions" involve instead circumstances where a reasonable pilot would expect a substantial likelihood of ice formation on the aircraft based upon all information available to that pilot. While "known icing conditions" are not defined by regulation, the term has been used in legal proceedings involving violations of FAA safety regulations that relate to inflight icing. The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has held on a number of occasions that known icing conditions exist when a pilot knows or reasonably should know about weather reports in which icing conditions are reported or forecast. In those cases the pilots chose to continue their flights without implementing an icing exit strategy or an alternative course of action and the aircraft experienced heavy ice formation that validated the forecasted danger to the aircraft. The Board's decisions are consistent with the FAA's long-held position in enforcement actions that a pilot must consider the reasonable likelihood of encountering ice when operating an aircraft. The reality is it all comes down to our planning and what we do when we encounter known icing. The key thing is when we venture into conditions where icing is possible, we need to have sure thing exit strategies available to us, such as descending to warmer air. And we can't continue on failing to take action before it becomes too late. But if we venture into possible icing conditions without any possible escape plan and/or wait too long to take any action we're pretty much asking to be made an example of enforcement action; if we actually survive the experience.

I've met Anthony. He is VERY interesting. He gave his father “the talk” His passport requires no photograph When he drives a car off the lot, its price increases in value Once a rattlesnake bit him, after 5 days of excruciating pain, the snake finally died His 5 de Mayo party starts on the 8th of March His feet don’t get blisters, but his shoes do He once went to the psychic, to warn her If he were to punch you in the face you would have to fight off a strong urge to thank him Whatever side of the tracks he’s currently on is the right side, even if he crosses the tracks he’ll still be on the right side He can speak Russian… in French

@carusoam isn't one person, there are 12 working 3 shifts of 4....

I use an EFB, so I am no help when it comes to charts. However, I laminated my checklists and they live tucked in the plastic trim just above the window. I circled it in the picture below. It keeps it in easy reach.

I've looked at this in nth detail before, spoken to their marketing chaps, given them steers but to no avail. There are a number of basic problems, some already mentioned. You have a declining market, there are less pilots now than there were in the 70s-80s You have a major competitor who sells a plane the same way you buy a car (Cirrus) Cost of production is high, but with someone saying ill invest $25million and happy to potentially lose it it can be fixed. which when you are a billionaire is not much at all. Marketing is targeting totally incorrectly. So fixes:- You increase the size of the market by targeting Jim, Joe and everyone else, you make it a lifestyle brand. Pictures of plane with kids going camping etc, just like they do with cars. Forget the existing Pilots, make NEW ones! If Ikon can do it so can Mooney. Copy that technique and do it in spades, also look at the car industry, how do THEY sell?, an example could be... in Europe no-one buys a car we lease them so the car manufacturer moves units, the finance company makes interest and everyone is happy. £1000 down, 5 year monthly payments and a guaranteed residual value when you hand it back, which buys your next car, etc. Self perpetuating. It was at British Leyland with the Mini too, hand built, cost a bloody fortune to produce, now BMW have invested and one mini is produced every 5 hours. Man hours involved about 200, See below, all of the production is by Robot, anything can be done by robot where it is the same every time it just takes investment. Robots are a damn sight cheaper than humans. Hire CAR production people to show you how to do this. You look at your strengths and market them better, Yes Mooneys are fast, but that doesnt sell to "her indoors", but the safety cage does, the same way the parachute in Cirrus does. (stats show the parachute would not save 80% of GA accidents as they happen too low). So team up with the likes of Volvo and sell Safety Cages, Amsafe airbags, auto recovery A/Ps (blue button), "possibly the safest light plane in the world" (aka Calsburg and their beer adverts), As above hire car production people. Old Audi Adverts are perfect examples of how to take a dead brand and make it alive again. Extras:- Run adverts on billboards all over traffic hotspots at holiday weekends, showing a Mooney overflying the traffic saying "in your Mooney you would be there by now", Make sure that every aviation advert where there is a Cirrus shown as an example of a plane, has a Mooney instead. - Stamping components - Robotics - Body parts soldering - Robotics - Painting - Robotics - Final assembly - Man power (fender fronts for example) - Testing - Man Power - Final inspection - Man power - Shipping - Man power This is NOT rocket science but it DOES mean that the management need to grasp the marketing side with both hands and turn it on its head, this will drive some increase in sales, then the investment can come in.

I used to be on facebook. I used to post pictures of my family and dog, and activities on facebook, and my friends would hit like. And I would hit like for them too. In recent years facebook turned darker and everything became politics. I mean I enjoy the political debate at a BBQ as much as the next guy, including people with opposing opinions. Somehow friends of friends getting onto my facebook page and putting threatening and sexually suggestive threats statements about my children on fb sort of soured it for me. Yes I didn't have adequately strong settings to prevent third parties...which I did later, but somehow I noticed people became keyboard warriors forgetting they were speaking to other people, trying out their experimentally extreme rants online they would never say in person. I have closed my fb page middle of last year. So did my wife. This is the only forum I am involved in - and I feel like I gain a lot of aeronautical and equipment knowledge from all of you good people. Including people with opposite political views. I don't care what your politics are, but as the great Timothy thread of the past proved, once we go political, the aviation stops working. It is not like discussing politics at a BBQ when we do it on the internet. It escalates in a way that real life face to face conversations don't as easily. There are plenty of politics friendly discussion forums, but for the sake of preserving an aviation forum to speak about aviation, I think it is critical we keep it sterile, meaning stay away from politics absolutely and completely since a little leads to a lot and a lot WILL kill the forum. I for one will no longer participate if that happens. And I too of course have opinions but for the sake of following what I believe we must to preserve this aviation community, lets not. I don't care to hear your opinions, and I will not share mine with you on here. Come to Potsdam and share a beer with me at my house and we can either agree or disagree politics, whatever the case may be, but on here, it just does not work. So lets not. Please.

Nowhere fancy, but I bribed Mooneymite to give me a ride back home from the avionics shop in Griffin, GA. Turned a 75 minute car ride into a 20 minute Mooney trip. I ended up having to buy him lunch at Popeye's.

I know he was flying charters, maybe things picked up and he just doesn’t have the time. I did notice José “Pee Venturi” hasn’t even been on for a while since his little episode. And we all know where Peter Garmin is. Sitting out front of the Bendix King warehouse watching for the KI-300 to begin shipping. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Of course, coming from a J-bar M20C, I learned to stow the gear immediately after breaking ground. Now with an electric gear 252, I still do the same. Once breaking ground, the number one thing contributing to my safety is altitude. I wan't to get to pattern altitude as soon as possible and it certainly climbs better with the gear put away.

I had to fly with a bunch of brand B, but they were ok guys. fortunately for me, my safety pilot knew Mooney formation stuff pretty well. I was lucky enough to have Chuck Crinnian ride right seat. I got signed off for solo, and we flew a simulated mass flight from DVT to GYR. 12 ships, flight there was 2 ship with a trailing 3rd and the flight back was 3 ship. We landed in formation at GYR and then one after the other at DVT. What a great experience! My arms are tired, I think I about wore out my rudder pedals, but it was so much fun! I’m lucky enough that my wife loves to fly and she came along for the flight this morning. Here’s some pictures and videos. C7063441-24DE-4F9A-8E2F-24D1E142D3D3.MOV

So when it comes to small airplanes....we live in Cuba.

You really, really, really need to change your approach. This is a game for poets, not accountants! (Sorry @Danb.)

My plane was in a similar price range as this one and my first annual was 30% of the purchase price, including maintenance items. Just know what you may be getting into. If it's worth buying, it's worth putting in a hangar. Planes are not meant to be stored outside.

1975 F Model. Panel restoration started 2012, completed over 3 phases. Last phase completed 2017. Circa 2000: 2013: Early 2017, planning for new layout. 2017: 2020 - ???? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I finally got to fly with the new Tempest fine wire plugs. I’d say is starts more quickly than ever before, the mag drops at run up are lower and it seems smoother in flight. Clarence