Buying Mooney Sight Unseen COVID 19

[MooneyMitch]

Another shop option is Brian Kendrick, San Marcos, TX.

Brian was Mooney Service Center Manager previously.

Brian also takes great care of a good friends 2005 Mooney Ovation..... first class care and service on this airplane.

[Danb]

I’d consider Don and Paul Maxwell good honest people who run an extremely quality shop, I’d ask Don to do  more than a usual PPI since your basing your decision solely on the inspection, I’d ask for a more in depth inspection turning it into an annual with all the items noted and you determine what maintenance to do beyond normal air worthiness. There’s a few good Mooney specific instructions not far from your area, who wouldn’t need to jump on a commercial flight. I’d bet you could get Don to deliver it since he is in touch with a group of pilots, it’s only money.

[carusoam]

I bought my plane after seeing it...

It went to DMax for the PPI... DMax moved the plane himself from AAA in KSAT area...

The negotiations were for all things AW, the seller covers it...

The PPI included exercising all the nav and com equipment... because everything was supposed to be working according to the seller... In a modern plane that double a 100amu collection of equipment... +1 for the PPI here...

PPI found some leaks in the top access panels...

Plane has worked near flawlessly for a decade since.... not very hard, but a long time... 

The transition training on IR flights from TX to NJ are worth it...  I had 1k hrs of M20C time....

Its like doing homework... you know all the details... but you really know it, when you are done...

The coolest conversation occurred when DMax called me to discuss the findings... Each step from nose to tail...

A plane that only has 1500hrs doesn’t have much wear to find... 15years old, not much corrosion either...

 

Some of the challenges dodging Covid... how much exposure the people you will work with have...  when friends get together around here... it is OK to break out the IR thermometer to see if anyone is ringing the bell. 

Masks and gloves and separation seems to work... all the people working in stores are doing it... takes practice... it is so easy to forget...

Wash hands often, just because... bring your own sanitizer everywhere.....

PP thoughts only, NJ was a hot spot once..?

Best regards,

-a-

 

[MarkD34M]

If it is the plane I think it is - it is a nice example of a low time O1 model with a nice stack. I would go forward sight unseen if you were comfortable. But, being in upstate NY, you prefer AC over TKS? 

[MooneyMitch]

It’s none of my business, but..........I’m really super curious now!!! 

Photos and paticulars if you please and feel like sharing..... 

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

The coolest conversation occurred when DMax called me to discuss the findings... Each step from nose to tail...

I had the same conversation with DMax. It was my first of now many, many conversations with the Oracle in Longview and was the very beginning of my Mooney education and a good friendship. By the end of that phone call I was as sure about that airplane as I've ever been about anything.

[Mooney in Oz]

When you become proficient, treat all approaches to land as a possible go-around - just as you did in the airlines.
There will be no surprise factor to ruin your day.

[jetdriven]

Never buy anything you haven’t seen, and preferably, flown.  

[cferr59]

59 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Never buy anything you haven’t seen, and preferably, flown.  

I have to agree.  I would find a way to get my butt down there even if it involved driving, renting a plane, camping, eating out of a cooler before buying something sight unseen.  Airlines, hotels and restaurants are convenient, but not the only option.

[midlifeflyer]

58 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Never buy anything you haven’t seen, and preferably, flown.  

I feel weird buying a $20 pair of pants without trying them on, 

[LANCECASPER]

I think buying it sight unseen would mean that you or no one you trust has looked it over carefully. There are very few people I would trust to look over an airplane that I hadn’t seen personally, but Don Maxwell is one of them.

In 2014 I sold a Mooney Encore to a gentleman in Erie, PA. He asked that I take it to Don Maxwell for a pre-buy, which I did. The two of them went over the pre-buy and then a few days later I delivered it to Pennsylvania. The buyer never saw the airplane until after I landed and we put it away in his hangar. He was pleased and I have never heard a complaint. 

[mike_elliott]

6 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

When you become proficient, treat all approaches to land as a possible go-around - just as you did in the airlines.
There will be no surprise factor to ruin your day.

Every approach should be treated  to fly the missed approach. Think of the landing as a bonus for doing everything right to the DA/MAP and the ceilings/factors smiling on your work to allow an early termination of the approach with a landing.

[PTK]

18 hours ago, V1VRV2 said:

Thinking about buying the plane sight unseen after the PPI as long as there aren’t any deal breakers found.

I wouldn't buy it without seeing it and flying it. It can be done I suppose but there’s just no substitute to physically viewing the airplane. Minimally I would want an extremely thorough inspection by the shop including a detailed video conference. You can also have someone fly it and report to you. But again that’s less than ideal. 

There’s just no substitute to physically viewing and flying the airplane, no matter who the shop is. Period. 
Find a way to see and fly the airplane!

[mike_elliott]

Just now, PTK said:

I wouldn't buy it without seeing it and flying it. It can be done I suppose but there’s just no substitute to physically viewing the airplane. Minimally I would want an extremely thorough inspection by the shop including a detailed video conference. You can also have someone fly it and report to you. But again that’s less than ideal. 

What if that someone who flys it for you is Don Maxwell like so many are suggesting and saying would be acceptable? After all, he is working for the buyer and should represent the buyers' interest as your agent. I agree it is less than perfect as he might not know what you would personally find objectionable about the plane, only what condition everything is in, how it flys based on his experience (he has more time in ground effect than the majority here have in the logbooks in Mooney's) etc., but I could not think of a more qualified opinion by someone other than the buyer himself. The buyers' prejudices can only be placated by the buyer himself.

Would the Video conference add "body language" to the decision? I cant see its harm, nor its necessity personally. The extremely thorough inspection is what you would get with Don on a prebuy. Is it a 100% insurance policy that EVERYTHING will be caught that could POSSIBLY EVER go wrong? Nope, you wont get that anywhere for any price, even New from Garmin to lend a yardstick. It truly is a personal decision of trust of others and other's expertise, and I get your and others' point. I interviewed my dentist personally also, albeit I was charged for the interview.

 

[PTK]

21 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

What if that someone who flys it for you is Don Maxwell like so many are suggesting and saying would be acceptable?

There’s just no substitute to physically viewing and flying the airplane, no matter who the shop is. Period. 

[steingar]

Were I purchasing an airplane with the intent of restoration I think I could do it remotely.  What do I care the state of cosmetics and avionics if I'm going to redo them anyway  I know a gu/y who did that with his Echo and it turned out really nice.  But if it's going to be MY airplane I have to see it.  What's the state of the leather, are the stains acceptable?  Do all the knobs work, how bad does the oil leak etc.  If COVID makes the purchasing trip too risky then buying an airplane right now is too risky.  Wait until a vaccine is available.  There will be Ovations available, Mooney made a bunch.

[mike_elliott]

46 minutes ago, PTK said:

 There’s just no substitute to physically viewing and flying the airplane, no matter who the shop is. Period. 

and that is why I said

55 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

I agree it is less than perfect as he might not know what you would personally find objectionable about the plane, only what condition everything is in

and

56 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

The buyers' prejudices can only be placated by the buyer himself

and

56 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

It truly is a personal decision of trust of others and other's expertise, and I get your and others' point. I interviewed my dentist personally also, albeit I was charged for the interview.

 

[gsxrpilot]

Now that I've owned two Mooneys, I'd probably want to look the airplane over myself. I feel like I have a pretty good idea of what to look for in a Mooney. 

But back when I was buying my first Mooney, I could have spent six weeks looking over that airplane and flying it every day. But I still wouldn't have learned as much about it as I did from an hour on the phone with Don Maxwell who had just completed the pre-buy and a through test flight. 

I talk with a lot of Mooney buyers on the phone. And I'd say most wouldn't know what to look for if they were standing next to it, or sitting in the left seat. And there's nothing wrong with that, everyone starts somewhere. But for those buyers, having someone like DMax, JD, Kendrick, etc. do the pre-buy, and someone like @mike_elliott, @kortopates, @KLRDMD, @LANCECASPER, @Marauder, DMax, or someone as knowledgeable, test fly the Mooney, would be much more valuable than seeing it themselves.

Of course if you can go see it/fly it, great! But the other way works fine as well.

[MooneyMitch]

5 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Never buy anything you haven’t seen, and preferably, flown.  

There’s no guarantee in that either! 

[aviatoreb]

47 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

...But for those buyers, having someone like DMax, JD, Kendrick, etc. do the pre-buy, and someone like @mike_elliott, @kortopates, @KLRDMD, @LANCECASPER, @Marauder, DMax, or someone as knowledgeable, test fly the Mooney, would be much more valuable than seeing it themselves.

I would be as confident or rather more confident, with that pre-buy - pre-fly team line up even more confident than if I did it myself.

[Bravoman]

 Also worth remembering that any shop is only as strong as its weakest link. Put me in the camp of never making a purchase of this order of magnitude sight unseen. Wouldn’t even dream of it. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Bravoman

[carusoam]

Depends on the buyer...

Every used plane has its own non-aw bumps and bruises...  if you don’t mind these things... soldier on.

Every paint scheme was best for the first seller... if ugly paint doesn’t bother you... soldier on.

Every interior can use some updates.... if you are looking forward to replacing stuff... soldier on.

Skipping common homework assignments can be costly... if you can live with yourself after making a mistake like this... soldier on.

Dough... if you can easily cover your own mistakes... soldier on.

 

Buying and selling process machinery for years... get the buyer to see the machinery running is critical... better than 1000 pictures...

This first visit just takes out most of the artificial anxiety that can occur... get on to the real anxiety related to the purchase... paying, training, maintenance....

 

Some airplanes are just better for other people...  

PPIs are very imperfect... but they are the best protection for your wallet possible...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[midlifeflyer]

8 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

What if that someone who flys it for you is Don Maxwell like so many are suggesting and saying would be acceptable? After all, he is working for the buyer and should represent the buyers' interest as your agent. I agree it is less than perfect as he might not know what you would personally find objectionable about the plane, only what condition everything is in, how it flys based on his experience (he has more time in ground effect than the majority here have in the logbooks in Mooney's) etc., but I could not think of a more qualified opinion by someone other than the buyer himself. The buyers' prejudices can only be placated by the buyer himself.

Would the Video conference add "body language" to the decision? I cant see its harm, nor its necessity personally. The extremely thorough inspection is what you would get with Don on a prebuy. Is it a 100% insurance policy that EVERYTHING will be caught that could POSSIBLY EVER go wrong? Nope, you wont get that anywhere for any price, even New from Garmin to lend a yardstick. It truly is a personal decision of trust of others and other's expertise, and I get your and others' point. I interviewed my dentist personally also, albeit I was charged for the interview.

 

Doesn't matter. It could be my best friend whom I would otherwise trust with my life.

[EricJ]

Don Maxwell's shop did my PPI when I bought my airplane.   I had already seen the airplane and gotten to do a couple of detailed personal inspections, but it got sent to Don's shop to fix a leaky tank, so I took the opportunity to have them do the PPI.

Their shop isn't perfect, and your situation isn't perfect, and all that said if I were in your position I'd have no problem basing a purchase decision on the results of a PPI at their shop and a discussion with Don about the results.   If you're satisfied that you have enough info to make a decision I don't think there's a reason not to go that way.   I'd certainly trust Don's results and opinions as much as anybody out there.

Clearly in-person stuff is better, and getting to look at, sit-in, and fly something first is preferable, but your constraints are understandable and I think you're taking a reasonable approach.

[mike_elliott]

2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Doesn't matter. It could be my best friend whom I would otherwise trust with my life.

The OP has the option to put eyes on, and chooses not to. Others feel it is more important to put their eyes on a plane than a mail order bride. Its a risk decision mitigated by the professionalism of those you hire. Some can take the risk without the anxiety, others, not so much. Its everyone's option just like the amount of insurance they feel they need.