2 Mooneys Touch Mid-Air Inbound to OSH?

[mooneyflyer]

https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:96:15527238021704::::P96_ENTRY_DATE,P96_MAKE_NAME,P96_FATAL_FLG:29-JUL-19,MOONEY

Oops!

[LANCECASPER]

Ouch one of them was an Ultra. It must not have been too bad - FlightAware shows N197CV enroute back to Kerrville

[N9201A]

This was reported on Mooney Caravan website last week: 

http://www.mooneycaravan.com/news/statementrelatingtoincidentduringmooneycaravantooshkoshxxii21july2019

[Andy95W]

The FAA report says that @N9201A was one of the accident aircraft.  Any comments on what happened?

This kind of sheds new light on the other thread around here, "Fear of Fisk" and which is safer, the Caravan or the chaos of just flying the Fisk arrival.

[ilovecornfields]

Just now, Andy95W said:

This kind of sheds new light on the other thread around here, "Fear of Fisk" and which is safer, the Caravan or the chaos of just flying the Fisk arrival.

I’m guessing you don’t work with statistics for a living? ;-)

I’ve never been able to get the time off to try either one, but I’m not sure this single incident provides a definitive answer to that question. 

My impression from that carefully prepared statement is that @N9201A didn’t want to talk about it until the investigation is complete. Although as a Mooney fan I am curious about what happened as well, I will wait to hear about it until the investigation is complete.

[KSMooniac]

There was some touching, but I'd wait for the final report before drawing any conclusions about who touched who. Let the process play out, please.

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[Oldguy]

As much as we may all be interested in learning from this, it may be better to wait for an official statement as Dave asked in his earlier post.

 

[ragedracer1977]

35 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

The FAA ASIAS report states who touched who, Scott. Of course I guess it could be wrong but that is the source of that piece of information.  I didn’t just make it up.  

Jim

I was there.  Most of us who were know what happened.  Just wait for the report to play out.  It's not our place to say as we weren't directly involved.  

[M20F]

Just now, ragedracer1977 said:

I was there.  Most of us who were know what happened.  Just wait for the report to play out.  It's not our place to say as we weren't directly involved.  

Rubbing is racing 

[N9201A]

The FAA report says that [mention=8146]N9201A[/mention] was one of the accident aircraft.  Any comments on what happened?

Perhaps if it is posted here, you’ll read it:
“On 21 July, 2019, during the Mooney Caravan to Oshkosh Educational and Safety Foundation, Ltd.’s mass arrival flight from Madison, WI to Oshkosh, WI, an occurrence took place which is classified as an “incident” under 49 C.F.R. § 830.2. By definition, there were no injuries to any person and minor repairs to both aircraft have rendered them flyable.

The NTSB was immediately notified and has begun its investigation, in coordination with the FAA, which investigates according to FAA Order 8020.11C. The Mooney Caravan’s Safety Committee is also conducting its own investigation.

These investigations inherently involve the potential for certificate actions or other adverse consequences for those involved. It is inappropriate to comment further at this time. The Caravan Safety Committee will report its findings to Caravan leadership, which will issue a statement at the appropriate time, after the NTSB and FAA have completed their investigations.”

[Andy95W]

No problem, I wasn't trying to put pressure on anyone or imply anything.  Just curiosity.  I intend to do the formation training this year or next, even if I never participate in the mass arrival.

[Oscar Avalle]

Let the process work out. I did the Caravan two years ago and I have to say that they take safety very seriously. At some point during the training they felt that I was not up to the par and thus they provided me with additional training gave me a clear set of instructions on how to proceed if something went wrong. I always felt safe. Now having said  that if we have more than 50 planes in close quarters things can always go wrong.

[Steve W]

When this ends up in an FAA report, I expect it to read "Probable Cause: The two planes failed to maintain separation while in flight."

 

[Seth]

The Mooney is very strong.  

Edited July 29, 2019 by Seth

[DonMuncy]

I find it nothing short of a miracle that two planes can touch in flight, both land and both (apparently) fly home. As I understand it, there is some sort of maintenance available at Osh, but even at that, it would appear to be very minor damage. 

[Seth]

3 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I was there.  Most of us who were know what happened.  Just wait for the report to play out.  It's not our place to say as we weren't directly involved.  

Correct.  Let’s not comment here. 

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, Seth said:

Correct.  Let’s not comment here. 

It's like bike racing.  If you do the overlap wheels, you will go down.  Sometimes you cheat the reaper, but not often. Someone get out of position in formation and aluminum is going to get bent.  The funniest kind of coolest thing I saw was a Mooney flying formation with a T-28 trainer.   I happened to be riding my bike while doing it, it was one of those non computing things like that sure is a small plane with that that really cool radial sound, who would do that in the pattern, why are they so close, why are they not doing an overhead break.  Well that was just a cool moment.

[EricJ]

8 minutes ago, Yetti said:

It's like bike racing.  If you do the overlap wheels, you will go down.  Sometimes you cheat the reaper, but not often. Someone get out of position in formation and aluminum is going to get bent.  The funniest kind of coolest thing I saw was a Mooney flying formation with a T-28 trainer.   I happened to be riding my bike while doing it, it was one of those non computing things like that sure is a small plane with that that really cool radial sound, who would do that in the pattern, why are they so close, why are they not doing an overhead break.  Well that was just a cool moment.

At Deer Valley we have what I call the "Deer Valley Air Force", which is a bunch of "warbird" guys that fly mostly Nanchang CJ-6, Yak, or T-34s.   They fly formation a lot, break over the field for landing, etc.   Last winter several times I saw a flight of four with an RV stuck in there, and it was kinda comical.   They made it work, although some of the break-to-landing events were pretty marginal.

These guys, although crappy pic.   You can see the RV in there.   Pic by my pax:


 

[steingar]

16 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I was there.  Most of us who were know what happened.  Just wait for the report to play out.  It's not our place to say as we weren't directly involved.  

What happens at Oshkosh stays at Oshkosh.

 

The first rule of Oshkosh.  You do not talk about Oshkosh.

[RogueOne]

Glad no one was injured.  Otherwise just details that matter to those directly involved.

Fly safe everyone.

[RogueOne]

Just going to go ahead and be “that guy” here.  There are incident/accident speculators (I am not one) that always come in and try and piece together an accident/incident BEFORE the formal evaluation is released.  I don’t like it, but they say it is “for learning”.

O.K., why is that NOT the case here?  Because they are not dead and there is a pending enforcement action?  O.K. (Says me) regarding those that were involved, BUT why not O.K. To the “it’s for learning” crowd in this case?

My answer: Because it is disrespectful to those involved whether dead/injured or just those that were human and made an error and get the chance to learn from it.

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, RogueOne said:

Just going to go ahead and be “that guy” here.  There are incident/accident speculators (I am not one) that always come in and try and piece together an accident/incident BEFORE the formal evaluation is released.  I don’t like it, but they say it is “for learning”.

O.K., why is that NOT the case here?  Because they are not dead and there is a pending enforcement action?  O.K. (Says me) regarding those that were involved, BUT why not O.K. To the “it’s for learning” crowd in this case?

My answer: Because it is disrespectful to those involved whether dead/injured or just those that were human and made an error and get the chance to learn from it.

LOL I think you're referring to me here. 

I don't have a problem with anyone speculating on what happened and what could be done to prevent something like this from happening again... But as I was there and know what happened, I won't participate in the speculation because of the ongoing investigation.

But speculate away...

[xcrmckenna]

When this ends up in an FAA report, I expect it to read "Probable Cause: The two planes failed to maintain separation while in flight."
 

Naw, it will say those good looking Mooney pilots were lucky they were not in a flimsy built Beechcraft...... Glad everyone was okay!!!


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[Hank]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

LOL I think you're referring to me here. 

I don't have a problem with anyone speculating on what happened and what could be done to prevent something like this from happening again... But as I was there and know what happened, I won't participate in the speculation because of the ongoing investigation.

But speculate away...

With no information about what happened, we can't speculate about potential causes or learn anything . . .

I agree that there does seem to be a double standard here . . . . "Those we know" vs. "strangers who we read about on the interwebz"?

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, xcrmckenna said:

Naw, it will say those good looking Mooney pilots were lucky they were not in a flimsy built Beechcraft...... Glad everyone was okay!!!


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If it'd been two Cirrus aircraft two chutes would've been popped resulting in 2 hull losses.  That would have changed it from an incident to accident.