Jump to content


Basic Member
  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


1980Mooney last won the day on June 4

1980Mooney had the most liked content!

1 Follower

Profile Information

  • Location
  • Model
    M20J Missile Conversion

Recent Profile Visitors

3,210 profile views

1980Mooney's Achievements


Veteran (13/14)

  • Posting Machine Rare
  • Reacting Well
  • Dedicated
  • Very Popular Rare
  • Collaborator

Recent Badges



  1. There seem to be some old wives tales and just plain false statements being spread regarding "touch and goes". A "touch and go" is landed exactly the same way as a normal landing. The speed and flare are the same as a "full stop landing". The touchdown point is the same as a "full stop landing". A "touch and go" landing should be just as smooth as a full stop landing. The difference is that with a "touch and go" you don't jam on your brakes to slow the plane to a crawl in order to make your turn-off for the full stop. The repetitive full stop landing puts additional wear on brakes and tires. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND With a "touch and go" you never touch the brakes - you never chirp or flat spot your tires. You accelerate. And regarding wear on the landing gear - that is totally unrelated to either full stop or touch and go. It is a function of the number of landings and how you execute the landing (smooth or hard bouncing).
  2. This is the prototype in a Cirrus 3 years ago. I think the radiator is on the bottom roughly where our muffler/heat exchanger usually sits. See the video at 7:15. I assume the coils on the side are intercoolers. Regardless the nose of the cowl potentially can be tighter with less frontal area which translates to speed and efficiency.
  3. Those last few feet off the runway are critical. Being able to manage the plane in those few feet makes the difference between safely greasing it in and porpoising on the prop. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you either don't mean what you wrote or what you typed came out wrong without a proofread. Flying low approaches all day long, never getting closer than "several feet off the runway" (and maybe not even in ground effect) and never flaring to touch down, will never make you "a better or safer GA pilot" that can actually land a plane. Off course actually flying the plane all the way to the ground, either touch and go or full stop, will make you "a better or safer GA pilot".
  4. Here are some real world weights from EPI for a Lycoming in an RV. Although a Lycoming IO-360 only weighs about 300 pounds dry, once it is installed the firewall forward weight with frame/mount and cowling is closer to 450 pounds. DeltaHawk is quoting 357 pounds. It depends on what is in that total. The DeltaHawk will not need all the baffling that the Lycoming needs. Potentially the DeltaHawk cowling will be narrower and lighter. Maybe the installed weight penalty is way less than the 75 lbs quoted above. 200 HP Lyc IO-360-C1C6 Engine (complete) 293.0 Reduction Gearbox System Air Cleaner 3.0 Inlet Air Duct 2.0 Alternate Air Mechanism 3.5 Exhaust Headers 7.0 Exh pipes to Muffler 2.0 Muffler 5.0 Exh pipes from Muffler 3.0 Oil Filter + 1 qt oil included Oil Heat Exchanger + 1 qt oil 9.9 Oil Lines 1.7 Engine Oil 14.2 Coolant Heat Exchanger Expansion Tank Overflow Tank Coolant Lines Coolant (14 qt) Fuel Filter 2.2 Prop Governor 3.4 Vacuum Pump 2.5 Baffles / Ductwork 4.2 Propeller 55.0 Spinner 7.0 Cowling 22.0 Engine Mount 13.5 TOTAL 454.2
  5. Per Lycoming A3B6D : Length: 33.3 in ; Width: 34.25 in ; Height: 19.35 in DeltaHawk : Length: 33 in ; Width: 24 in ; Height: 22 in Look how much narrower the DeltaHawk is - 10 inches. A new cowl can be much more aerodynamic with less frontal area. I bet that will yeild significant speed gains and economy vs. the stock cowling. They claim the same length.
  6. If your W&B consists of several modifications over time, each one built up from the prior with "added" and "removed" equipment then you need all of them. If you only keep the last one, you have no support for the basis of the starting point in the calculation of the revised W&B.
  7. It was registered in March to a broker in Sparta - Bill Austin in Sparta doing business as "Planes and Boats". Due to the delays in FAA registration, I would bet that he just sold it to a new owner. All the previous flights are short flights originating and landing at Sparta. This incident flight was the second leg of the first trip from Sparta to Florida. https://www.planesandboats.com/ This plane has led a really hard life. In addition to hitting power lines it is one of the PFM' conversions that was damaged in the hurricane and somehow salvaged. From the Aircraft.com ad: Damage History: Hurricane Wing Skin, Ribs, Aileron, Flap, Elev. Repairs Made 07/05/2005 (They had the nerve to advertise it as an Ovation - but in the fine print they note it was a Mod Works conversion of an M20L) https://www.aircraft.com/aircraft/200857057/n63mp-1988-mooney-m20r-ovation This plane has led a hard life. Hurricane damage at Mod Works - Wing Skin, Ribs, Aileron, Flap, Elev. Power line strike. From the Herald Chronicle "“Strands of metal, apparently from the steel power lines, were wrapped around the propeller, and I was shocked to see several dime-sized holes burned into the fuselage,” the pilot said." Gear up landing Another reason Mooney insurance stays high. This plane has 3 major claims in 18 years. I bet damages cost insurers $300K-$400K. I bet the power line strike required a new engine. If the power line was around the prop and there were burned holes in the fuselage, the current probably traveled through the engine - arcing across the crankshaft bearings and maybe camshaft lobes.
  8. Even if an owner had an identical twin, I doubt that neither the twin nor anyone else could fly the plane precisely the way the owner might want it flown or know all the nuances that the owner has at the top of mind or put it away as "precisely" as the owner. But then again I doubt that the multiple former owners of this particular Ovation3 (and whoever else they let fly it) for over 17 years and over 1,000 hours and probably nearly 2,000 landings, flew it precisely the same, or precisely like the current owner would have desired all the time. There will be variation within reason. And if the partners are reasonable the risk is likely managable.
  9. It seems like your comments/concerns might best apply to a brand new plane straight from the factory - as perfect as it can be. I get it that you don't want to see partners spilling the first coffee in the front seat or the first sticky Coke in the back seat...or being the first to blow a tire from a hard landing. Or burning up a Zero time engine. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the OP purchased a 2006 Mooney - a 17 year old plane. If it is the Ovation3 that I think it is, then it has over 1,000 hours and 4 previous owners. The engine is also 17 years old with over 1,000 hours SNEW without overhaul. It has probably been landed 1,000-2,000 times before he purchased it. How many times do you think it has already been landed "heavy and hard"? ... over 17 years maybe 20 times?....more?..40 times? .maybe. How many times has the engine already been run hard in 17 years and 1,000+ hours?..WOT, too hot, in the "red zone" of detonation?... 10 hours?...50 hours? More? An exhaust valve or cylinder could be near the point of failure now and actually fail while any of the 3 pilots are flying through no particular fault of their own. As you say "the list goes on and on" Unless any of the actions by prior-owner resulted in logged repairs, then the OP (the recent buyer) has no idea of any of this and no way of knowing. An exception might be excessive tire replacement noted in the logs. And if the proposed partners are fairly equally competent pilots, the individual risks are all about the same. Will one more "hard landing" really cause any more material deterioration to the wing than the previous ~20-40 "hard landings"? And over the next 3 years, when the engine will be 20 years old, will the risk of potentially "running the engine hard" really materially shorten its life?
  10. Not a gear-up but a Mooney hit a runway sign while landing yesterday. A 1967 M20F, N2932L, landed and struck a runway sign at Dothan Regional, AL (KDHN). FlightAware shows he was using the big runway - Runway 14. It is 8,499 ft. x 150 ft. Also looks like he flew one touch and go at Early County Airport (KBIJ) before returning to KDHN. Damage is unknown. AIN Notices Report (faa.gov) N2932L Flight Tracking and History 31-May-2023 (KDHN-KDHN) - FlightAware
  11. They do the same thing at Kirtland Air Force Base (KABQ in Albuquerque. They train special operations in the C-130 there and they do touch and goes all the time. No problem at all......
  12. The tubular wall thickness on the custom engine mount frame is very thin (three oil filled sizes getting progressively thinner as you go forward). Look for any signs of corrosion. The slightest corrosion can exceed the 10% airworthiness limit. Rocket Engineering will still refurbish/reweld/powder coat for $3-4K,
  13. "When you repaint, don't use chemical stripper on any of the areas where there is sealer on the inside, the stripper will eat its way all the way through. Even through rivets that should be airtight. Use mechanical paint removal only there" Isn't that like everywhere there is fuel tank on the wing, top and bottom? Do you really think the paint shop will know? And if they do (or you mark the outline of the tanks) isn't that a lot of physical (and abrasive) paint removal?
  14. You need to think about the insurance implications in any deal. If you pursue just a simple dry lease to your partners in exchange for them providing hangar space, then the plane will remain 100% owned by you and in your name. You will provide and pay for the Hull and Liability insurance. Conceivably your partners will want you to add their names as authorized named pilots to the policy. If your partner has an accident injuring someone or property, even if your partner has personal pilot liability insurance, the injured party will also sue you because your name is on the policy and you own the plane. If the plane is in an LLC and the Hull and Liability insurance is paid by the LLC, then liability and damages will be limited to the LLC and the offending pilot that crashed the plane. (Each partner would secure their own personal pilot liability insurance.) This provides you some protection you from actions of your partners. If the plane is totaled but no one is injured and there is no lawsuit, then LLC insurance policy will write a check to the LLC for the total loss which will be distributed to each 1/3 partner. If the plane is totaled and a lawsuit, then it could wipe out the LLC including insurance recovery. You could lose your 1/3 investment in the LLC but conceivably not be named in a lawsuit. The exception would be if you are the partner providing and scheduling all the maintenance, and the crash was caused by mechanical issues related to maintenance (or alleged lack of) you might get sucked into personal liability for a crash that occurs while being leased and flown by a partner..
  15. Here is a relatively recent ad when it was for sale. N6082Q | 1965 MOONEY M20E SUPER 21 on Aircraft.com I loved the description " Damage History: No Known or Documented Damage History". Nothing like truth in advertising....if it isn't documented then they didn't lie. Well they can't even say that now.... Also if you search the new address listed in the pending registration, it show 2 pilots. One got a Private - SEL in June 2022 and the other is a Student. Looks like another case of new owner with low level of experience. That can't help improve the reputation for high Mooney insurance rates ....
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.