Family pressures?

[KLRDMD]

15 hours ago, bradp said:

@NJMacConsider the mooney PPP course and you have an experienced Mooney CFI for transition training with your C lined up, correct?

This is important !

[Ned Gravel]

2 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

This is important !

+1 for the Mooney PPP course.  Best course to learn how to respect, and not be scared of, your airplane.  Lots of stalls.  Lots of practice at solving problems requiring "aviate - navigate - communicate" approaches.  "Oops - you just lost the engine.  Good thing you are in gliding distance to that airfield close by.  Show me how you will set up the aircraft, glide to an appropriate approach point, conduct the approach, and land safely."  

[Browncbr1]

On 11/30/2017 at 5:49 PM, NJMac said:

 

 

Wow, an exceptional response. I took my check ride at like 64 hours, all of them in the 172 that I started training with. I'm just a little over 80 hours in my log book I believe. All of those in the 172. The most recent 8 hours have been simulated Hood work for instrument lessons. In fact I have not mentioned it yet, my Mooney still isn't flying because of the avionics upgrade. I was actually planning on renting the 172 for this cross country. And you're exactly right, my mother-in-law's coming to our house in January and she does want to fly with me.

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Wow, I didn’t realize you had zero time in your mooney.    It is very different from a 172.  You will need transition time and even more comfort time before loading precious cargo.   Staying ahead of a mooney is not the same as staying ahead of a 172.   There is a reason 172s are trainers..  they are easy.   You’ll need your complex endorsement as well.   Patience. 

[NJMac]

Wow, I didn’t realize you had zero time in your mooney.    It is very different from a 172.  You will need transition time and even more comfort time before loading precious cargo.   Staying ahead of a mooney is not the same as staying ahead of a 172.   There is a reason 172s are trainers..  they are easy.   You’ll need your complex endorsement as well.   Patience. 

Man, i wish i knew that. /s

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[gsxrpilot]

I'm still on the other side of this... I bought my Mooney, flew 5 hours dual on the first day, 5 hours solo the next couple of days and then loaded up the family and started going places. Next think I know I'm approaching 1000 hours and nearly have my US Map filled in.

I had lunch this week with @SkyTrekker earlier this week. He doesn't even have a private certificate yet. But jumped in his E and flew from Waco to Austin, landing at the big airport, KAUS. After a nice lunch of Torchy's Tacos, he was back in the air heading back to Waco. He was obviously solo as required for a student pilot.

I also notice that most if not all of the Mooney tragedies that are listed on these pages, are of high time pilots. Experience and time in type is certainly important and valuable. But the FAA has signed you off to carry passengers and go places. Go... just be careful.

 

[Hank]

Me, too, Paul. I had about 60 Cessna hours when I started Mooney transitioning. Fifteen hours later, I flew my wife to the other side of WV for lunch. Three days later, we flew from WV to NC for her dad's birthday. Neither of us felt unsafe, the CFI / CFII / MEI who handled my transition didn't think it was unsafe; in fact, he saw us off on our lunch run across the state, smiling and waving like a proud papa.

@NJMac, get your transition training done, pay attention! and go fly. Join MAPA and take the PPP program as soon as possible.

My thinking about that (a month after completing the required dual):  I had been taught how to fly; I had then been taught how to fly the Mooney. MAPA would teach me how to fly my Mooney the right way, and going sooner would be fewer bad habits to unlearn. 

www.mooneypilots.com

[Marauder]

I'm still on the other side of this... I bought my Mooney, flew 5 hours dual on the first day, 5 hours solo the next couple of days and then loaded up the family and started going places. Next think I know I'm approaching 1000 hours and nearly have my US Map filled in.
I had lunch this week with [mention=16067]SkyTrekker[/mention] earlier this week. He doesn't even have a private certificate yet. But jumped in his E and flew from Waco to Austin, landing at the big airport, KAUS. After a nice lunch of Torchy's Tacos, he was back in the air heading back to Waco. He was obviously solo as required for a student pilot.
I also notice that most if not all of the Mooney tragedies that are listed on these pages, are of high time pilots. Experience and time in type is certainly important and valuable. But the FAA has signed you off to carry passengers and go places. Go... just be careful.
 

I think your point is base on my belief that it comes down to the individual and their own capabilities. I have flown with low time pilots who clearly have the right stuff, have both skills and knowledge to be safe pilots. And the same goes for the other end of the spectrum. I have flown pilots with high time in Mooneys to see sloppiness and lost skills/knowledge.

The variable is the pilot’s ability to self recognize where they sit on this spectrum and to fly within their current skill set. In other words, they may be fine flying around locally but to do an extended flight and dealing with weather and other variables may put them over the safety line.

The unfortunate part is that either through their own over confidence or other factors at play, they cross the line and the consequences come into play.

I often wonder what happened to the owner next to me at my airport in New York. His plane sat all year long with the tires going flat in the process. Then it would be gone for a week. I found out later that he would only fly it once a year to do the Oshkosh pilgrimage.


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[Hank]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

 

I often wonder what happened to the owner next to me at my airport in New York. His plane sat all year long with the tires going flat in the process. Then it would be gone for a week. I found out later that he would only fly it once a year to do the Oshkosh pilgrimage.
 

 

I used to have a news crawler in the bittom of my computer at work. Just seeing all of the crashes let me kniw when Oshkosh was approaching . . . But I'd still like to fly up one day . . . But never solo, too many planes too close togehter, and I still remember the antics around me going into SnF on a year that was IMC from the souther edge of the Appalachians to about 40nm from Lakeland.

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm still on the other side of this... I bought my Mooney, flew 5 hours dual on the first day, 5 hours solo the next couple of days and then loaded up the family and started going places. Next think I know I'm approaching 1000 hours and nearly have my US Map filled in.

I had lunch this week with @SkyTrekker earlier this week. He doesn't even have a private certificate yet. But jumped in his E and flew from Waco to Austin, landing at the big airport, KAUS. After a nice lunch of Torchy's Tacos, he was back in the air heading back to Waco. He was obviously solo as required for a student pilot.

I also notice that most if not all of the Mooney tragedies that are listed on these pages, are of high time pilots. Experience and time in type is certainly important and valuable. But the FAA has signed you off to carry passengers and go places. Go... just be careful.

 

I had under 60 hours in Cherokees when I got my Mooney. Insurance required 10 dual and 5 solo before flying passengers. It took about 7-8 dual before I felt comfortable in the Mooney and the 5 hours of solo were great for just getting more of a feel for the plane. I would not have been comfortable carrying passengers prior to that transition training. I love flying others around but there is still something special about being alone up in the air to me.

As soon as I was done with my required transition training my wife and son started flying with me. The first few flights were just burger runs in the 30-200 mi range, no time constraints, no pressure to get anywhere, and one of them involved going the opposite direction to a different airport because the weather didn't look good at our original destination. (It was cool to go to lunch a couple hundred miles away)

A month later and we were making long cross countries of 300-800nm, however it wasn't until we had made a number of those that my step-daughter's dad felt comfortable letting her fly with us.

I will say again what many others have said. Take your time, get your transition training, make a few flights where there are no time constraints and if you don't think it looks good one direction just find an airport where the weather is good and head there. Flying into different airports is great training, I still like to find ones I haven't been to and go just for the experience of navigating to a new place and landing somewhere that I don't know any of the landmarks.

Before you know it you will be flying your wife all over the place and seeing a lot more of the family. There is no rush, you have time, and with a Mooney you have more time than most people.

[NJMac]

It's really amazing how everyone approaches this conversation that, ironically was not even in the first question, from their own perspective and personal experiences / observations on others' experiences.

I like to think of myself as pretty unique having started a multimillion-dollar business and having the decision skills required to maintain and thrive in that environment.

I doubt there's many 33 year olds that could even rack their own car, let alone desire to do their own preventive maintenance. Or own a tool box worth more than both their and their wife's cars.

I'd argue that an airplane is just a series of interrelated systems. If you're able to comprehend how those systems work in harmony, I would think that would make you a successful pilot. Weather just being one of those systems impacting flight.

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[Skates97]

14 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I often wonder what happened to the owner next to me at my airport in New York. His plane sat all year long with the tires going flat in the process. Then it would be gone for a week. I found out later that he would only fly it once a year to do the Oshkosh pilgrimage.


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There's an F that sits tied down in front of my hangar. The owner has taken the time to put covers over the fuselage, wings, and cowling/prop/spinner. I have seen it gone twice in the year that I have been in that hangar. I hope he's flying something else more because I can't imagine getting in a plane with someone who flies a couple times a year.

[Skates97]

3 minutes ago, NJMac said:

It's really amazing how everyone approaches this conversation that, ironically was not even in the first question, from their own perspective and personal experiences / observations on others' experiences.

I like to think of myself as pretty unique having started a multimillion-dollar business and having the decision skills required to maintain and thrive in that environment.

I doubt there's many 33 year olds that could even rack their own car, let alone desire to do their own preventive maintenance. Or own a tool box worth more than both their and their wife's cars.

I'd argue that an airplane is just a series of interrelated systems. If you're able to comprehend how those systems work in harmony, I would think that would make you a successful pilot. Weather just being one of those systems impacting flight.
 

I hope you don't take this the wrong way...

What I see most are saying is to be conservative and careful. You have been successful in the business world, congratulations. (Many of us have been as well) You think very highly of yourself which no doubt has served you well in the business world. Some of the comments you have made, including how you talked to your mother in law, would suggest that you have much to learn still in spite of your success early in life. There have been a number of pilots that have met an untimely end because they were overconfident. Granted there are some that were young and bold and managed to survive. The problem is that they were the exception, and most of us are not the exception. 

Speaking of tool boxes, I have technicians that work for me that have boxes and tools worth more than some people's houses, but that doesn't mean I would want to fly with them. In fact while I would trust them to do any maintenance or repairs on my vehicles, I wouldn't be comfortable with them driving me around in a car, I've seen how they drive.

[201er]

9 minutes ago, NJMac said:

I like to think of myself as pretty unique having started a multimillion-dollar business and having the decision skills required to maintain and thrive in that environment.

I doubt there's many 33 year olds that could even rack their own car, let alone desire to do their own preventive maintenance. Or own a tool box worth more than both their and their wife's cars.

You're your own worst enemy. Especially when it comes to aviation. Your business skills and car maintenance skills aren't worth a damn if you put a smoking hole in the ground with your plane.

[201er]

8 minutes ago, 201er said:

You're your own worst enemy. Especially when it comes to aviation. Your business skills and car maintenance skills aren't worth a damn if you put a smoking hole in the ground with your plane.

Oh wait I forgot, he's Christian so that doesn't apply. Carry on.

[NJMac]

Are you going to really trying to run off the new guy?

 

Looking back at my original question I was asking about conversations with the in-laws since I'm willing to admit I'm not a people person. All this other be afraid of flying shit doesn't really interest me any longer

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Edited December 2, 2017 by NJMac

[mooniac15u]

3 minutes ago, NJMac said:

Are you going to really trying to run off the new guy?

 

Looking back at my original question I was asking about conversations with the in-laws since I'm willing to admit I'm not a people person. All this other be afraid of flying shit doesn't really interest me any longer

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Nobody here has told you to be afraid of flying. They've told you to be afraid of yourself. 

[NJMac]

Nobody here has told you to be afraid of flying. They've told you to be afraid of yourself. 

If I'm not confident in myself, then maybe I should go buy one of those airplanes with a parachute. That way I'm not always afraid of crashing my plane.

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[mooniac15u]

3 minutes ago, NJMac said:

If I'm not confident in myself, then maybe I should go buy one of those airplanes with a parachute. That way I'm not always afraid of crashing my plane.

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People are suggesting you should have a level of confidence commensurate with your experience. In aviation overconfidence can be deadly. 

Also, nobody here is trying to run you off. They are trying to give you advice that will improve the chances of you being around here for a good long time. 

[Marauder]

The fact you started the thread at least either confirms your concern over your own your skills at this point or for a rallying cry to support your own ego. Either way, you asked.

And quite honestly, in my 30 years of GA flying, the ones who listen to the advice, at least understand this activity has inherent risks and offset those risks with continuous training and taking the activity seriously.

Many of those who have responded are not 100 hour freshly minted PPs. There is some serious experience on this board ranging from military, career professionals and high time GAers.


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[SkyTrekker]

As @gsxrpilot mentioned above, this week I combined my first Class C solo experience with a trip to Austin to connect with Paul and discuss different approaches to panel upgrades (as well as hearing more about Mooney formation flying...very cool!)  I still have another few hours of requirements before I'm clear to take my PPL practical test.  Then I intend to turn my focus to IFR training, but not before I sign up for the MAPA PPP.  Looking forward to learning the finer points of flying my 1970 E.  I wonder when their 2018 schedule will be published.  Can anyone tell me how many days the program lasts?

I'm in a situation similar to @Skates97, as I doubt my teenage step-son's father will be excited about him flying with my wife and me anytime soon.  I figure I'll keep developing skills and experience and having successful flights until everyone is comfortable with the idea.  I do look forward to that first trip with the three of us, though.  For that matter, I am really looking forward to the first trip with just my wife and me!   Shouldn't be too long now.

[NJMac]

The fact you started the thread at least either confirms your concern over your own your skills at this point or for a rallying cry to support your own ego. Either way, you asked.

Anyone have to overcome family pressures when you first got started flying for holidays and such? ....Just curious if anyone had gone thru this before and if so, open to pointers.

The title of this is family pressures. I asked for pointers to overcoming objections and if this was normal. I didnt ask anyone if I had enough time or experience in the creation of this thread. If looking for past experiences is a rallying cry for my ego, then color me surprised.

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[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, NJMac said:

Are you going to really trying to run off the new guy?

As Don Maxwell once said "I can teach an ape to land a Mooney". What is most difficult to impart is good decision making, especially to some who have had some success in one form or another during their (usually short) lives to date. Listen to the old timers like Gus who have racked up the hours yet are still a student to aviation and be appreciative of some of the free wisdom and advice you may receive here. No one is trying to beat you up or disparage you, but rather encourage you to continue to learn and cautiously so that it can be added to your experience and properly cloud your decision making.

[Andy95W]

Every time I think we're done beating a dead horse...

...we find a new horse.  Sigh.

[Jerry 5TJ]

55 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

As Don Maxwell once said "I can teach an ape to land a Mooney".

Especially a Johnson bar Mooney.  

[aggiepilot04]

As [mention=11970]gsxrpilot[/mention] mentioned above, this week I combined my first Class C solo experience with a trip to Austin to connect with Paul and discuss different approaches to panel upgrades (as well as hearing more about Mooney formation flying...very cool!)  I still have another few hours of requirements before I'm clear to take my PPL practical test.  Then I intend to turn my focus to IFR training, but not before I sign up for the MAPA PPP.  Looking forward to learning the finer points of flying my 1970 E.  I wonder when their 2018 schedule will be published.  Can anyone tell me how many days the program lasts?
I'm in a situation similar to [mention=15119]Skates97[/mention], as I doubt my teenage step-son's father will be excited about him flying with my wife and me anytime soon.  I figure I'll keep developing skills and experience and having successful flights until everyone is comfortable with the idea.  I do look forward to that first trip with the three of us, though.  For that matter, I am really looking forward to the first trip with just my wife and me!   Shouldn't be too long now.

I just asked about the 2018 PPP schedule last week. Here are the dates/locations.

February 9-11, 2018 - Palm Coast, FL
April 13-15, 2018 - Henderson, NV
June , 2018 - TBD (possibly in Fort Worth, TX)
September 7-9, 2018 - Manchester, NH
October 5-7, 2018 - Owensboro, KY


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