New Pilot Question

[MattOK]

I am getting into flying to take the family travelling and was wondering how many hours I should have under my belt before getting serious about getting into a more capable plane than the warrior I learned on.  I have been dreaming about an M20J.  I will be working on an instrument rating towards the end of the year.

[rob]

I bought my Mooney with about 100 hours TT. Most of that was in a Warrior. The transition wasn't difficult. I could have done it with less total time if need be but I waited for the right plane.

[Wakeup]

I got my mooney with less then 100 hours in mostly 150s and the transition was not too bad. Very important to get an instructor that has a lot of mooney experience. Go for it!! You only live once.

[Houman]

Wow, I'm getting my M20K Rocket at about 130h of flying on a C172 and Beach C23 ( low wings ), I was a bit reluctive, since the insurance is asking me for 15h of instructions and 10h of solo before I can take passengers. Not sure if Canadian insurances are more strick, but heck... I think the training is worth it with 305 HP under the hood !!!

[aaronk25]

I was surprised chartis now AIG, didn't care at all what engine was up front when it came down to premium price. It was ok you want a mooney and how much is this mooney worth? The lady even told me hull value determine price and she could care less if it had 180hp or 305hp.

[Hank]

I bought my Mooney with 62 hours in Skyhawks. Needed 15 hours dual with an "approved" instructor to miss the 10 hours solo, and it had to include 5 hours IMC. Well worth it! A month later I attended a MAPA Pilot Proficiency Program, also a good time, great education, money well spent and my longest flight at the time (2.2 hours to get there).

Find a good plane, get quality instruction and start having fun! "You are now free to move about the country."

[Ned Gravel]

I had 160 or so hours before I bought mine.  Most of that was in 172's and Cherokees.  Transition was pretty easy because I made a point of listening very carefully to my Mooney-savvy instructor.

 

600 or so hours later now. Still good.  But life is keeping me from enjoying it as much as I would like.

[triple8s]

The most important advise I could give .......... ? Get an instrument rating! You want to travel in a single engine airplane? A Mooney was built for just that. You travel in an airplane and you will be flying in and through weather systems. If you don't have the training to handle that, the people you are traveling with don't understand and fuel the gotta get thereitis ? This is the scenario we have all read about but also say how that will never be me. A Mooney is a fine traveling machine, want one? Get one but an instrument rating had better be high on your priorities if you plan to travel and take others on trips.

[Bravoman]

The most important advise I could give .......... ? Get an instrument rating! You want to travel in a single engine airplane? A Mooney was built for just that. You travel in an airplane and you will be flying in and through weather systems. If you don't have the training to handle that, the people you are traveling with don't understand and fuel the gotta get thereitis ? This is the scenario we have all read about but also say how that will never be me. A Mooney is a fine traveling machine, want one? Get one but an instrument rating had better be high on your priorities if you plan to travel and take others on trips.

Couldn't agree more. These birds are definitely not for weekend around the pattern type of flying. The training for the rating and what it takes to stay current and more importantly proficient also makes for better overall skills. Personally--and others may and probably do have different opinions--I would not recommend a Mooney to a non instrument rated pilot. There are better and more forgiving platforms on which to train for the rating, i.e. a 172 or Cherokee. Speaking for myself(because the only Mooney I have ever flown is my Bravo), I feel that there is too many ways to get behind the curve if a very high level of proficiency is not maintained.

[robert7467]

I trained for my ppl in my mooney.

[PTK]

The M20J is an excellent airplane to train for and fly instruments. It is rock solid and very economical.

It's also an excellent idea to stay ahead of the game by training in the airplane you're thinking of flying.

[cbarry]

I bought my first Mooney after owning a Cessna Cardinal (thin wing 1968) for about 250hrs. I learned airspeed control in the Cardinal which really helped transitioning to the Mooney. Airspeed control is much more basic when flying other traditional production aircraft (at least Beech, Piper and other Cessnas). For example, in a 172 you can pull the power and point the nose down and still slow down and go down. That's not as easy in a Cessna 177 or a Mooney. Because airspeed control is where a lot transitional Mooney drivers have tough time setting up for the approach to landing, I would encourage you and your instructor to practice airspeed control with all of your maneuvers (turns about a point, slow flight...). Congratulations on your pursuit of happiness (same thing as Mooney ownership)!

[Danb]

Triple 8's got it..I went from a warrior to a J model after 80 hours or so, used my time for insurance reasons to begin my inst rating which makes sense to me to get your rating in the machine you plan on flying. My first landing was a screaming tire flattening experience in which I learned quickly that speed control in our baby's are paramount. The rest is no problem learn your numbers and stay patience to this day I still need to say. Dan be patience do not plant in on until it ready..have fun and learn Wx alone the way...

[1964-M20E]

Great advice above to get your IR.   I can’t tell you how many flights in the last 2 years I have been able to make that without the IR would have been very stressful or could not have been made at all under VFR rules.

 

While you are getting your required dual time in for the insurance company utilize that time with the instructor to start working on your IR if you are a capable pilot you will only need the first 4 to 5 hours for the transition and remaining hours are CYA for the insurance company.  Get under the hood and fly it by hand do not use the autopilot.  However, while you are waiting to find a plane and buy you one start studying the instrument approach procedures (IAP) and low altitude enroute charts so you have an understanding of what you are doing before you step into the plane.  Talk with some instrument rated pilots and discuss approaches, holding enroute work etc.

 

Why not you are already paying for the instructor and for the fuel.

[Roger O]

I guess the bottom line in all of this is that you need to be comfortable flying.  If you are a "white knuckle" pilot in a Cessna 150 you will be uncomfortable in a Mooney, no matter how many hours you have.  An instrument rating is definately important, especially since it gives you more air time in the air, and getting to know what flying is all about.

 

Mooneys are fabulous planes (as everyone here will attest),  One of the major items to control from the beginning is approach and landing speed.  As long as you are at a safe and controlled approach speed, all will be ok.  There are very few things in a Mooney that will bite you as long as your speed is under control, and your approaches are stablized.  I guess come to think of it, that is the same in a Warrior as well! 

 

Get a good CFII who is familiar with flying Mooneys, and you will be fine.  Hope you enjoy your new flying experiences, this web site is loaded with people who love flying in general and especially flying their Mooneys..  We are all part of a great fraternatity, and would gladly helping you in any way we can.  Welcome to "the club"! 

 

Roger

[mike_elliott]

Wow, I'm getting my M20K Rocket at about 130h of flying on a C172 and Beach C23 ( low wings ), I was a bit reluctive, since the insurance is asking me for 15h of instructions and 10h of solo before I can take passengers. Not sure if Canadian insurances are more strick, but heck... I think the training is worth it with 305 HP under the hood !!!

 

that is about standard for insurance to request (15 dual 10 solo before pax for 0 retract less than 150 hours), I have found that it typically takes a good pilot that long to really have a good handle on the plane anyway going into a Hi perf. plane from a trainer. Sometimes it takes longer.

[Seth]

I purchased my F after about 110 hours in trainers, mainly the 172, but some PA-28, 182, TB-9, and others.

 

I got my IFR the following year - should have done it right away.  AMAZING how much more capability you have with the instrument rating.

 

At about 625ish hours I sold the F model and upgrade to a Mooney Missile.  That's the J model with a 300 HP normally aspirated engine, IO-550 on the front - the baby ovation.  I've had that ever since and I should break 1000 hours this year.

 

 

-Seth

[N601RX]

I had around 60 hrs, all in a Cessna 150.  I had read a lot about how important speed control was and was very conscious about it, so it was never really a problem.  Be sure the CFII thoroughly covers botched landings very well and how to recover from them.

[wishboneash]

This may sound controversial, but any good instructor who understands real "stick and rudder" flying, reads and follows through with the applicable Mooney POH can train you. It didn't take long for me to go from an Archer to the 201, takes not more than 10 hrs or so, but for insurance purposes, you will probably need more to be signed off. The 201 is easier to land in crosswinds and lands predictably if you get the airspeeds right. Just watch out for the usual turns in the pattern and learn to slow down efficiently. This is the only part that is different from a draggier plane.

[Jeff_S]

Let me approach from a different angle. You say you want to take your family around. My first question is, how big is your family? And how far are you trying to take them? The reason I ask is that you may not be looking at the right airplane for your mission. Don't get me wrong. I have an M20J that I bought after about 400 hours in a Warrior, and I love it. I fly it all over the southeast and have made longer trips to Denver, etc.  But it's either just me, or me and my wife with plenty of room for luggage and gas.  Once you start adding a third or fourth person of any size, and the associated luggage, you might start to max out on the load handling capabilities you need.  So that's just food for thought. If it's you, the wife one or two young children, a J may last you for a few years. But any more than that and you should perhaps start thinking about something else, whether that be in or outside the Mooney line.

[Z W]

I went from a 172 at 50 hours total time to a M20C, and about 50 hours after that to a M20K.  I had two instructors, neither of which had much Mooney time.  I think I had to have 10 hours dual and 5 hours solo before carrying passengers, for insurance.  I survived this reckless and irresponsible maneuver somehow, despite all of the hallowed advice you get on the internet that says it should not be done that way.

 

Mooneys are less forgiving than some other models for carrying too much speed, but they really do not require superhuman piloting skills or specialized training.  Get one and fly it.

[Seth]

Let me approach from a different angle. You say you want to take your family around. My first question is, how big is your family? And how far are you trying to take them? The reason I ask is that you may not be looking at the right airplane for your mission. Don't get me wrong. I have an M20J that I bought after about 400 hours in a Warrior, and I love it. I fly it all over the southeast and have made longer trips to Denver, etc.  But it's either just me, or me and my wife with plenty of room for luggage and gas.  Once you start adding a third or fourth person of any size, and the associated luggage, you might start to max out on the load handling capabilities you need.  So that's just food for thought. If it's you, the wife one or two young children, a J may last you for a few years. But any more than that and you should perhaps start thinking about something else, whether that be in or outside the Mooney line.

 

That is a fantastic point.  Can you define your mission a bit more clearly?  We all love the Mooney here, but we also are aware of the limitations.

 

-Seth

[mooniac15u]

Mooney should really consider making a fixed gear model so that low time pilots could transition to the airframe and Master their Mooney flying skills.  Then they could offer a kit to convert it from fixed gear to retractable...

[kevinw]

I think the J is a great step up from a warrior or archer but get an instructor who knows the airplane. I bought mine right at a year ago and transitioned from mainly an Archer with about 350 hours and an IR. In my opinion the J is easy to fly but it's not a trainer. Two issues that stood out for me was airspeed on final is crucial to good landings and planning ahead on arrivals. You can make sloppy landings in the Cherokee because it hides your mistakes; a Mooney is not so forgiving. The slick airframe makes it tough to slow down and you'll notice this immediately but you'll learn to just slow down sooner. I really like the fact that the never exceed speed is nearly 200 kts. I can start my descents from about 35 miles out at about a 300 fpm and pick up an extra 20-25kts of airspeed, something I couldn't do in the Archer. Think of the J as hitting the sweet spot in speed and efficiency. Same fuel burn as an Archer but 30kts faster. As someone mentioned earlier, consider your mission carefully and know that useful load can vary quite a bit from one plane to the next. Mine is only 875 (I have TKS) so I have to watch the envelope carefully.

[1964-M20E]

Mooney should really consider making a fixed gear model so that low time pilots could transition to the airframe and Master their Mooney flying skills.  Then they could offer a kit to convert it from fixed gear to retractable...

They did make one in the 60's I believe it was the D model and most of them have been converted to retract.