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Shoulder Belt?

Yetti

By Yetti
in Miscellaneous Aviation Talk

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Shoulder Belt  

88 members have voted

  1. 1. Shoulder belt installed and used.

    • Got them Good to Go
      75
    • Got them good to go... still looking for a 5 point
      7
    • Dad didn't need them why should I
      5
    • I just want to be thrown clear of the accident scene
      1

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Oldguy
Oldguy

Had shoulder belts in my Cessna, but the instructor didn't use them, so why should I? I read an article by Rod Machado the night of October 11, 2003 and decided to start using them. Here is the n

mike_elliott
mike_elliott

Alex, Ill show you a nice scar on my head at the Summit where it was stapled back together. Did I mention I was wearing a shoulder belt? Without it, I wont be here typing. Hopefully, you will realize

kpaul
kpaul

@Raptor05121 I will give you the shoulder harness/seat belts out of my F when I upgrade to the AMSAFE airbags. I plan on doing the upgrade this fall as part of my annual.  $3000 is not even aviation e

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HIghpockets Collaborator

HIghpockets

Posted
Posted

My former flight instructor was only  wearing a lap belt (no shoulder harness) when his Navion lost an engine. He landed short and struck a berm. He sustained a severe cervical spine injury that left him with  permanent quadraparesis as a consequence of the violent flexion/extension movement of his head striking the panel.

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tigers2007 Mentor

tigers2007

Posted
Posted

I wonder how many WW2 pilots would have lived if they had harnesses on. Years ago I saw some archived photos of military pilots that had fatal face and head trauma. I can’t believe any aircraft owner flies without some sort of harness. It’s a cheap upgrade with so much potential.


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steingar Grand Master

steingar

Posted
Posted

I flew my Cherokee for 10 years with just lap belts.  Can't believe how dumb I was.  One of my pals lost his engine on takeoff in his new to him Deb, went down in a field.  His sunglasses were embedded in his face, along with some of his panel.  He didn't fly, drive, chew gum or do much of anything else for a year.  And he went down in a field. 

Shoulder harnesses, every time.  Mrs. Steingar didn't like them, the shoulder belt got caught in the side of the aircraft and was difficult to fasten.  She complained.  I think it was the first time in our marriage that I told her to shut the fuck up and just do as she was told. Yes, I'm still married.

I am never flying without shoulder harnesses again.  Maybe I should look into the airbags.  From what I read it took north of 20 million to certify the things, so 3 grand is quite the bargain.

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RLCarter Grand Master

RLCarter

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, steingar said:

Mrs. Steingar didn't like them, the shoulder belt got caught in the side of the aircraft and was difficult to fasten.  She complained.  I think it was the first time in our marriage that I told her to shut the fuck up and just do as she was told. Yes, I'm still married.

Still married? We want to know how long you were in the hospital.....:D

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kerry Mentor

kerry

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

I wonder how many WW2 pilots would have lived if they had harnesses on. Years ago I saw some archived photos of military pilots that had fatal face and head trauma. I can’t believe any aircraft owner flies without some sort of harness. It’s a cheap upgrade with so much potential.


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I understand your logic but it makes me think how many WW2 pilots survived because they didn't have shoulder harnesses allowing them to have more maneuverability during combat.     

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carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted

Kerry I like your logic... but...

Getting strapped in and wearing a helmet seems to be the key to survival in modern fighters...

Getting separated from the seat may require a tool to cut some straps...

Plan A... survive the impact...

Plan B... survive getting out of the plane...

You need to be conscious after step A, to execute step B...

A successful execution of plan B.... usually includes a pic and a post on MS... letting everyone know you are Ok... :)

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

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Brandontwalker Proficient

Brandontwalker

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Posted
Fred,
I used Clarence’s method and got a field approval by my local FSDO. I still have a mock-up bracket I built at the hangar. I’ll take a picture and post it for you next time I go to the airport.  Basic metal working skills and a cheap MIG welder are all that you need.
Brandon

Fred,

I looked, but believe the first mock up of the bracket fell casualty to a massive purge associated with a recent move. However, I was able to find pics of the actual brackets, mount location, and finished product:

202aaa4efa9de68acc8c3756323ead3b.jpgb6eea09c99eb2b658d51c639e55a5322.jpg196201f7e526b7d919824d00ad842070.jpg2c8ab466a093b16d160849876bf61ec7.jpg6d00b4ff8dd23cde75bf734d9f4d9e47.jpgbf1cf488fca20c2ca02e54a78f1453d5.jpgb1c31577d5af879c2dc33d170daa122a.jpg


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steingar Grand Master

steingar

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16 hours ago, RLCarter said:

Still married? We want to know how long you were in the hospital.....:D

Its funny, but long ago I told Mrs. Steingar that I might have to tell her to shut the fuck up in the airplane. She's cool with it.  I have too, and yes we stay married.  Mrs. Steingar is quite intelligent.

She was a bit miffed at the shoulder belt thing until our pal crashed his Deb.  I showed her the photos of the aftermath.  She doesn't complain about the shoulder belts anymore.

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WilliamR Community Regular

WilliamR

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, kerry said:

I understand your logic but it makes me think how many WW2 pilots survived because they didn't have shoulder harnesses allowing them to have more maneuverability during combat.     

So, my grandfather and I had a good conversation about that very trade off.  Btw, all the fighters he flew and I think the bombers (B-24, 25, and 29) had at least four point harnesses.  Anyway, his thought was he would rather be strapped in tight and swivel his head around than loose in the straps and be injured in a crash.  He saw the aftermath of a friend shot down who ditched in the water just off base on Bougainville Island and had their straps loose.  The gun sight on the P-39 peeled his nose back. 

When I fly I make sure I'm pretty tightly strapped in.  When flying aerobatics, I also ratchet down the straps further after flying for awhile.

William

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gsxrpilot Grand Master

gsxrpilot

Posted
Posted

This is something that I've gotten from all the wisdom and experience on this site. Consequently I won't fly or ride in a Mooney without shoulder belts and a proper CO monitor. 

Of course, I can bring my own CO monitor along if riding in another Mooney without one.

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Hank Grand Master

Hank

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, carusoam said:

Kerry I like your logic... but...

Getting strapped in and wearing a helmet seems to be the key to survival in modern fighters...

Getting separated from the seat may require a tool to cut some straps...

Plan A... survive the impact...

Plan B... survive getting out of the plane...

You need to be conscious after step A, to execute step B...

A successful execution of plan B.... usually includes a pic and a post on MS... letting everyone know you are Ok... :)

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

WWII planes didn't have ejection seats. Open the canopy / window / door, unstrap, stand up and jump! Preferably quickly, while the plane may be corkscrewing down and on fire . . . .

God bless them all!!

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0TreeLemur Grand Master

0TreeLemur

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Brandontwalker said:


Fred,

I looked, but believe the first mock up of the bracket fell casualty to a massive purge associated with a recent move. However, I was able to find pics of the actual brackets, mount location, and finished product:




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Thanks a bunch!   Those are taller than I expected, but I get the gist.   I can whip some of those up.   I'm better at metal work than sewing ;)  Is there any way you could send me a scanned copy of the 337 that you filed?  That would really help me with getting approval.  Between you and @M20Doc I really appreciate the excellent help/advice!!!

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Brandontwalker Proficient

Brandontwalker

Posted
Posted
Thanks a bunch!   Those are taller than I expected, but I get the gist.   I can whip some of those up.   I'm better at metal work than sewing   Is there any way you could send me a scanned copy of the 337 that you filed?  That would really help me with getting approval.  Between you and [mention=12030]M20Doc[/mention] I really appreciate the excellent help/advice!!!

One of the concerns was keeping the correct geometry, so the brackets were sized to match the geometry of the shoulder harness in the front seat. There was absolutely no change to the airframe, so the FSDO agreed no 337 was required. The inspector just noted what was done and the approval in the file.


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bradp Grand Master

bradp

Posted
Posted
On 10/2/2019 at 7:45 AM, Brandontwalker said:


Fred,

I looked, but believe the first mock up of the bracket fell casualty to a massive purge associated with a recent move. However, I was able to find pics of the actual brackets, mount location, and finished product:

202aaa4efa9de68acc8c3756323ead3b.jpgb6eea09c99eb2b658d51c639e55a5322.jpg196201f7e526b7d919824d00ad842070.jpg2c8ab466a093b16d160849876bf61ec7.jpg6d00b4ff8dd23cde75bf734d9f4d9e47.jpgbf1cf488fca20c2ca02e54a78f1453d5.jpgb1c31577d5af879c2dc33d170daa122a.jpg


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Brandon why did you double up and weld the sheet metal at the bolt pass through?  Did you need more structure at that point or was it a fittment issue or something else? 

Thanks!!

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Brandontwalker Proficient

Brandontwalker

Posted
Posted
Brandon why did you double up and weld the sheet metal at the bolt pass through?  Did you need more structure at that point or was it a fittment issue or something else? 

Thanks!!

I tend to over engineer. The mounting piece is thin with two holes in it for bolts. Just an added margin of error in the event it is ever subjected to loads. And yes, I did heat treat the steel after welding.

 

 

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EricJ Grand Master

EricJ

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Posted
1 hour ago, FastTex said:

So...what's the preferred solution to buy and install shoulder belts? I visited a few sites but it is not clear...It's for a friend of mine with a M20F 1970 ;-)))))))))))))))

Thanks!

These are what I have.   I think most A&Ps could put them in.

https://alphaaviation.com/mooney-m20-a-thru-k-push-button-release/

 

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Skates97 Grand Master

Skates97

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, EricJ said:

These are what I have.   I think most A&Ps could put them in.

https://alphaaviation.com/mooney-m20-a-thru-k-push-button-release/

 

Take your time (the left side is a beast) and a semi-handy owner can do it with a sign-off from your A&P.

16 minutes ago, FastTex said:

Wow, more than $1k but I should not be surprised. Plus installation...

This was the first upgrade I did on the plane shortly after buying it. Think of it as the best money that you can spend and hopefully never need.

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skydvrboy Mentor

skydvrboy

Posted
Posted

I just bought a set from Hooker Harness. They were $400 for both front seats, $200 each, plus shipping.  You still need to buy the bolts and clamp from Alpha Aviation, but a lot more reasonable price.  I’ll post pictures when I get them in.

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