Mooney short field work

[Stephen]

 

 

 

[carusoam]

Bryan has a lot of practice with the red bird...?  

Or is that the new owner?

Best regards,

-a-

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, carusoam said:

Bryan has a lot of practice with the red bird...?  

Or is that the new owner?

Best regards,

-a-

No idea, just saw the link on Youtube and .... WOW!  [_][_]  

[carusoam]

Bryan has demonstrated getting in and out of a lot of unimproved strips as well.

Best regards,

-a-

[Stephen]

Wow Anthony, he is amazing, would love to get schooled by him. What is his MS handle?

[carusoam]

Charles had spotted Bryan’s bird last week...

 

He was selling it back in January...

 

Bryan is or was here...

https://mooneyspace.com/profile/7134-piperpainter/

He May have a YouTube channel full up with his Mooney fun...  he liked to mix it up with taildraggers on big tires...

Looks like a bunch of YouTube videos attached to piperpainter...

In case I didn’t say it... that is some very low energy kind of flying... not much room left for unexpected air disturbances... to cause a stall...  (I feel better now...) 

If he has gone on to tail draggers with big tires, he is going to excel there as well...

Best regards,

-a-

[Stephen]

Thanks for the info Yes, without question it looks like very low margin, narrow tolerance flying. 

[Hank]

Yes, he is a talented pilot, and did things with his Mooney that I will never try with mine.

Did you see that slip on short final? Made me wish the in-cockpit videos were of the same landing and takeoff, but they looked much tamer than the ones filmed from the ground.

Wonder what he's doing now that he sold the Mooney? 

[steingar]

Dude's got bigger cahones than I ever will, or want to.  Thinking about that saying about old pilots and bold pilots...

[Marauder]

Dude's got bigger cahones than I ever will, or want to.  Thinking about that saying about old pilots and bold pilots...

I think if he had big Cahones they would’ve actually hit the trees :-)


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[Stephen]

I think they did, turn up the volume; you can hear the branches breaking 

 

[jetdriven]

18 hours ago, Hank said:

Yes, he is a talented pilot, and did things with his Mooney that I will never try with mine.

Did you see that slip on short final? Made me wish the in-cockpit videos were of the same landing and takeoff, but they looked much tamer than the ones filmed from the ground.

Wonder what he's doing now that he sold the Mooney? 

His new wife saw those videos and he has a kid, and decided thats enough, I imagine.. He bought a Cessna 205 or something close to that.

[kris_adams]

Back in the 80s an F bellied in at KPDK after pulling his gear immediately after departure like the #2 video.  If anyone is going to try that make sure this doesn't happen to you when the plane settles.  I imagine the fast gear of the 69 F contributed to it.

[gsxrpilot]

If you've got positive rate, I don't know how the plane settles after pulling the gear. When I had my C, I'd do the same thing. I'd swing that Johnson bar as soon as I broke ground. I've got some videos somewhere from under the belly.

[Marauder]

If you've got positive rate, I don't know how the plane settles after pulling the gear. When I had my C, I'd do the same thing. I'd swing that Johnson bar as soon as I broke ground. I've got some videos somewhere from under the belly.

Some of the older models actually dipped a few feet when the gear was retracted. I saw a guy in a C model at my airport pull the gear up and dipped enough to kick up dust from the asphalt. Thought for sure he was going to do a prop strike.


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[carusoam]

When three feet above the ground, how long would you need to wait for the VSI to actually indicate a positive rate...?

Bryan did show a dip on the departure...  most likely wrangling so many controls at one time, not from settling...

Waiting for the delay in the VSI... First you would need to be climbing to generate a pressure differential in the instrument... Bryan didn’t wait that long...  

regarding settling, that would have not ended so well, as there probably would not be enough energy to fly out of ground effect...?

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

I would always keep the wheels on the ground a little longer than most and therefore build a tad bit more speed. Therefore upon breaking ground, there is plenty of energy to keep it in the air especially if still in ground effect. With the wheels put away, it accelerates and builds energy much more rapidly which can then be traded for altitude quickly as well.

Oh and BTW... I think the "seat of my pants" registers positive rate quicker than the VSI does. And it allows one to keep eyes outside the cockpit.

[bradp]

Also if eyes go down to pull the bar it’s an opportunity for PIO. 

Bryan has enough of the experience bucket that he can do those approaches safely.   He’s not an average pilot and has some honed skills.  His website pretty explicitly states don’t try this at home kids.  

[Hank]

15 hours ago, carusoam said:

When three feet above the ground, how long would you need to wait for the VSI to actually indicate a positive rate...?

This is but one benefit of having an IVSI. I still generally raise gear approaching treetop height. On my Flight Review a couple of weeks ago, as we were climbing out and turning crosswind, the CFI asked when I was going to raise the gear. I told him I already had, and pointed at the lights on the panel. Later, in the pattern, I told him I was going to lower the gear, grasped the knob and pulled it down, then told him when the movement had stopped. He expressed surprise! It's so fun!

As far as rotation, breaking ground and the initial climbout, this is what my Owners Manual has to say:

So I can only imagine that not relaxing back pressure after breaking ground would get the manual gear crowd a little higher, to allow raising the gear quickly. I have seen this done at what looked to be 5-6' agl. Even with my fast electric gear, I am not comfortable raising the gear that low, I like to feel the initial climb and confirm it with my IVSI first.

[jetdriven]

Peripheral vision will show a positive rate of climb before a VSI will. Besides do we really want to be looking at instruments 3’ after taking off?

[Mooneymite]

3 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Peripheral vision will show a positive rate of climb before a VSI will. Besides do we really want to be looking at instruments 3’ after taking off?

Just wait for your copilot to call, "positive rate".

[gsxrpilot]

There is no doubting Bryan's @piperpainter skill when it comes to flying that M20C in and out of true bush strips and tight places. That certainly shouldn't be done by rookies. But raising the gear quickly is a well known and widely practiced technique in manual gear Mooneys. The Johnson Bar gets very difficult to move very quickly as speed builds. By 80 mph it's impossible to move without some assistance. That assistance is typically in the form of the "Mooney bob" where a quick dip of the nose will assist in slinging the gear up into their wells. 

So for those observing who don't fly J-bar Mooneys it might look like a reckless "hot-dogging" maneuver, it's actually quite safe and proper. It's certainly better than the alternatives. When swung at slow speeds immediately after breaking ground, it's a 2 second process and can be done with fingertip effort. Wait any longer and it's like wrestling a snake in the cockpit, all while executing a sharp nose down Mooney bob, or worse, raising the nose to slow down and trying to wrestle the j-bar into submission without inducing a departure stall.

 

[jetdriven]

I wonder the actual distance over a 50’ obstacle wirh each method.  One the method talked about here, gear up at 2’ AGL.  The other, pitch for Vx at 50’ and deal with the gear shortly.  

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by jetdriven

[kris_adams]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 10:16 PM, Marauder said:

Some of the older models actually dipped a few feet when the gear was retracted. I saw a guy in a C model at my airport pull the gear up and dipped enough to kick up dust from the asphalt. Thought for sure he was going to do a prop strike.

 

 

I'm not sure of the aerodynamics of this.  Instead I have a single data point which I admit is anecdotal evidence.  I swear I can feel my J settle just a bit when the gear goes up (if I retract early) but maybe I'm just feeling what I think should be there lol

[milotron]

4 hours ago, Kris_Adams said:

I'm not sure of the aerodynamics of this.  Instead I have a single data point which I admit is anecdotal evidence.  I swear I can feel my J settle just a bit when the gear goes up (if I retract early) but maybe I'm just feeling what I think should be there lol

My K does has this same feeling, but I think that it is more up a 'pitch down' moment for a second or two.  Dropping the gear definitely gives the opposite, so this logic would make sense. 

Shift of center of gravity in addition to change in drag characteristics?

 

iain