Insurance renewal

[MIm20c]

5 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Funny, that’s exactly OPPOSITE the advice received from an aviation attorney I retained.  

His opinion — we GA pilots should carry smooth limit liability insurance approximating our financial net worth.  

Not possible for many unless burning Jet A. 

I understand about not carrying non family passengers but what about people on the ground injured during a crash?  Curious if many claims have been filed by those on the ground. 

[Steve W]

18 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Funny, that’s exactly OPPOSITE the advice received from an aviation attorney I retained.  

His opinion — we GA pilots should carry smooth limit liability insurance approximating our financial net worth.  

So, can I get a $0.23 smooth limit?

I actually went with $1million smooth as it made my employer at the time less twitchy if I flew myself for work even if they never did officially allow it(or officially prohibit it).

[M016576]

3 hours ago, PTK said:

Wow! My agent (AOPA insurance) finds this unbelievable! Are you sure?

I bound coverage for my best quote from Old Republic at 1962$ for 1 mil smooth/135K hull. In fact according to AOPA insurance they have never seen it as low as you say.

Just double checked- thought I was 1M smooth, but not the case- 1M/100K

[Kmac]

1 hour ago, MIm20c said:

Agree with the above. However, last year as a first time owner with half of his hours and 50% higher hull value my premium was 20% lower using falcon (same as his quote above). So rates might be going up. 

Just got off the phone with Falcon again.  They said last year was about 25% less with my current credentials.  Even student pilots transitioning to complex were receiving great rates.  He said over the last few years the insurance companies were just trying to get policies written.  Now there is an uptick in policies being written so the prices can rise again...  Oh well, I guess 1/2 AMU will be a drop in the bucket in the end...

[mooniac15u]

I think we should hold our insurance agents to a higher standard.  They should guarantee that they have found the lowest rate.  If we find out later that someone got a lower rate we should demand a refund.

It should be no different than a PPI.

[201er]

5 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Funny, that’s exactly OPPOSITE the advice received from an aviation attorney I retained.  

His opinion — we GA pilots should carry smooth limit liability insurance approximating our financial net worth.  

The difference between regular liability and smooth is that smooth insures the liability of  non-pilot occupants up to the total rather than $100,000 limit. If there are no occupants, there is no point of $1,000,000 divided by occupants per occupant amount. Liability to the house or field that the wreck intervened with will be covered up to a million whether it’s smooth or not. However, if you take one friend, smooth provides 10x the liability coverage. 2 friends is $500k each. 

[Skates97]

8 hours ago, Kmac said:

I am about to bind insurance coverage on an M20C I made a deposit on.  I got a quote through AOPA and Falcon.  Both came back with Global Aerospace at $1,903.       200hrs TT and 10hrs complex.  $30k hull.

Who are you using?

It is through Falcon Insurance. The first year it was underwritten by Starr Aviation, the second year it was underwritten by Global Aerospace. The first year there was some back and forth working competing bids against each other. The initial quote from Falcon my first year was $1983 but after they sent it back a couple of times to underwriting the final number came in at $1525. The renewal this year was $1005.

$36k hull

[MIm20c]

17 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

It is through Falcon Insurance. The first year it was underwritten by Starr Aviation, the second year it was underwritten by Global Aerospace. The first year there was some back and forth working competing bids against each other. The initial quote from Falcon my first year was $1983 but after they sent it back a couple of times to underwriting the final number came in at $1525. The renewal this year was $1005.

$36k hull

I hope mine falls a third this year as well. Not sure I’ll get my instrument check ride in before the deadline, might be just after. 

51 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

As a practical matter, most of the time your explanation would be correct, Mike, but technically I’m pretty sure the sublimit applies to all injured parties, not just “non-pilot occupants”.  Folks on the ground, too. Imagine putting her down on a highway and hitting several cars, for instance. 

Jim

I’m really curious about this.  The chances are slim but I’d assume the 100k cap would be for all individuals in the plane and on the ground? Structures under that limit as well?  I should really read my policy again. 

[201er]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

As a practical matter, most of the time your explanation would be correct, Mike, but technically I’m pretty sure the sublimit applies to all injured parties, not just “non-pilot occupants”.  Folks on the ground, too. Imagine putting her down on a highway and hitting several cars, for instance. 

Jim

There’s a per occurance limit and a per occupant limit. Basically the liability is split into 3 categories: Hull, occupants, and external damage. Hull is all the pilot could receive (and maybe $5000 medical). On most policies there is a 1mil total and $100k per occupant limit. This means that with 4 on board, the max that occupants could get is $100k each. The max the folks on the ground, property owner, car driver, etc could get is 1mil (less $100k per occupant). The max that everyone that the pilot is liable to could get with either a smooth or normal policy is the total limit which is typically 1 million. The only thing a smooth policy changes is that occupants can receive any share of the full million up to the full amount. Standard policy caps occupants to $100k each.

The difference between occupants and people on the ground is that occupants knowingly and voluntarily participated in the activity while ground parties were uninvolved (the plane just dropped by).

It gets a bit sketchy with passengers entering the aircraft because if they claim they were not an occupant but just walking by the plane, then it’s a higher amount.

Edited March 6, 2018 by 201er

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, MIm20c said:

I hope mine falls a third this year as well. Not sure I’ll get my instrument check ride in before the deadline, might be just after. 

I don't expect mine to drop much the next renewal unless I get my instrument before then. (Possible but not probable right now) The big drop this time I believe was because I went from around 60 hours total with no complex time to over 200 with all the additional hours in the Mooney. Adding another 150 hours in the Mooney will likely not have much of an impact. 

[201er]

53 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

You are doing the right thing by reading and knowing your policy terms, Mike. I obviously can’t over the Internet.

Jim

I'll check mine when I get back but just speaking from memory 

[Yetti]

I think I mostly worry about wacking the wing on a Citation jet or something.

[Shiny moose]

Last year falcon $950  with 50K hull 1 mil, this year is $660 with  AOPA 

[tigers2007]

If I switch companies mid-year would I get a prorated credit?


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[DonMuncy]

45 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

If I switch companies mid-year would I get a prorated credit?


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Somewhere between highly unlikely and absolutely not.

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Somewhere between highly unlikely and absolutely not.

Does "NFW!" sound about right?

[TargetDriver]

1500 hrs, 250+ retract, 110 in my K nw. Last years through AOPA/Starr was $1050 for $75K hull 1M/100. Just trying to renew now for $135K hull and quote went to $1850. I may back it down to around $110. The $75k was from 3 yrs ago purchase just to cover it and get it going. Fixin to add avionics upgrade, new full interior upholstery being done now, and did one esie complete tank strip and seal. Will do the other side this summer/fall.  Figured that should cover it all. 

just glad I don't have to cover the $24 Mil 'special" bird we flying now deployed !!  :))

 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Naw, just you.

[MyNameIsNobody]

On 3/6/2018 at 9:26 PM, tigers2007 said:

If I switch companies mid-year would I get a prorated credit?


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Carrier is “earning that premium” through the year.  Yes, you should receive a credit for months that were not earned with coverage.

[MyNameIsNobody]

On 3/5/2018 at 3:55 PM, mooniac15u said:

I think we should hold our insurance agents to a higher standard.  They should guarantee that they have found the lowest rate.  If we find out later that someone got a lower rate we should demand a refund.

It should be no different than a PPI.

That was a good one.  Boom!

[sgrooves]

3 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Carrier is “earning that premium” through the year.  Yes, you should receive a credit for months that were not earned with coverage.

In NC they do short-rate on the insurance credit. Basically take a percentage off of what you would have received back in credit. 

Bought my M20J fresh off my PPL with about 50 hours, none in type in 2015. Only a couple insurance companies would quote me. Best I found, first year was about 2,200. Second year (2016), with more experience and based out of a towered airport actually went up to 2,300. The rationale was fear of retracts.

Four months later, I had 160 hours, over 100 in type, and 85 in the last year. Also had recently gotten my IFR ticket. On a whim I rechecked quotes via the sporty’s promotion and found one (Global) at 1,350 with 10k in additional hull coverage. Did the short rate cancellation on my original policy, got ~1,400 back, to basically get a 4+ month extension and more protection at no cost. Didn’t get all of my money back by cancelling but it was more than worthwhile.  Rough numbers based on memory but i think it shakes out right.

[Oldguy]

So after watching this thread take shape, I was eagerly (?) awaiting my renewal quote as I am increasing my coverage by $20,000 for the avionics I am installing. Last year was $1,031 for $95K hull, $1MM/$100K liability, $5K medical and $-0- deductible in motion/not in motion. Bump the hull by the $20K with everything else the same, and this year is $1,158. Both from Global Aerospace. From what I am reading, I think I am happy.

Oh, and Savvy Breakdown Assistance included at no charge.

[KSMooniac]

So after watching this thread take shape, I was eagerly (?) awaiting my renewal quote as I am increasing my coverage by $20,000 for the avionics I am installing. Last year was $1,031 for $95K hull, $1MM/$100K liability, $5K medical and $-0- deductible in motion/not in motion. Bump the hull by the $20K with everything else the same, and this year is $1,158. Both from Global Aerospace. From what I am reading, I think I am happy.
Oh, and Savvy Breakdown Assistance included at no charge.

You're within $10 of me, with exactly the same coverage but a different carrier.

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[Oldguy]

1 minute ago, KSMooniac said:

You're within $10 of me, with exactly the same coverage but a different carrier.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

It's because we are both displaced Texans....

[Cruiser]

3 hours ago, Oldguy said:

So after watching this thread take shape, I was eagerly (?) awaiting my renewal quote as I am increasing my coverage by $20,000 for the avionics I am installing. Last year was $1,031 for $95K hull, $1MM/$100K liability, $5K medical and $-0- deductible in motion/not in motion. Bump the hull by the $20K with everything else the same, and this year is $1,158. Both from Global Aerospace. From what I am reading, I think I am happy.

Oh, and Savvy Breakdown Assistance included at no charge.

1 MM/100K liability is about $200 standard rate.

so 1031-200= 831 divided by 95k is $8.75 per thousand hull value.

1158 - 200= 958 divided by 115k is $8.33 per thousand hull value. 

Sounds like the upgrade was a good value.