Vortex generators

[Browncbr1]

dont see too many mooneys with vortex generators. I think I only recall seeing 2. Do they not have much benefit for mooney airfoils? Just curious.

[carusoam]

Erik and Oscar? Anyone else?

-a-

[steingar]

I have them on my Cherokee and love them.  I don't know if they make the aircraft any faster, but I have real trouble stalling it.

[Bennett]

There is a least one other. Saw her at LASAR a couple of months ago. I had them on my Cessna 120' which was the perfect plane for them.

[KSMooniac]

Very undesirable for a Mooney IMO.  

[sleepingsquirrel]

Once you pay $1500 for them, the installation and the associated FAA paperwork you will swear that it flies; faster , stalls slower,and is able to maintain directional control while sitting still on the ramp

[M20F]

They are excellent for slicing salami or your hands on.

[Piloto]

They are excellent for slicing salami or your hands on.

Or your granddaughter thighs. Helping his grandpa wash the plane my hangar neighbor granddaughter slide down forward of the wing when her thighs were cut by these. There was blood all over. After these my friend had them completely removed from his Baron.

José

[PTK]

I can't see messing up that beautiful smooth and clean Mooney wing!

[NotarPilot]

I looked into these once and thought I read that they reduce your stall speed but you also lose a little speed at the top end since it's just parasitic drag.

[aviatoreb]

Erik and Oscar? Anyone else?

-a-

 

Yup.  I got em'.  I do enjoy very good low speed handling.  And lower than book stall speed.

[aviatoreb]

I looked into these once and thought I read that they reduce your stall speed but you also lose a little speed at the top end since it's just parasitic drag.

 

How do you know its just parasitic drag?

 

I can't see messing up that beautiful smooth and clean Mooney wing!

 

I think they look nice - they represent the technology to manipulate flow across a wing.  I love the look of intricate and clever engineered devices.

[Alan Fox]

Quite the opposite of parasitic drag , they increase induced drag , as they decrease laminar separation....and increase lift..... 

[cliffy]

They help lower stall speed by inducing votexes behind each vane and thereby allowing

airstream contact with the upper surface of the wing at higher angles of attack. They do create

drag at normal angles of attack. If you look at early LearJets they all had several rows of them

just ahead of the ailerons to keep airflow in contact with the ailerons at high speed.

ol'man Lear (I met and flew with him on several occasions) called them "screw up fixers) only he used

a common 4 letter word instead of a 5 letter word.

[MB65E]

Learjets Rock! Too bad they are not as popular as they once were. I currently dig the -45. It appears to check a lot of the boxes.

I've listened to Learjet acceptance flight stories at the factory. Every Jet for a long while was tested and the stall strips were placed in different locations to get the jets to fly alike. I here adjusting them was an art form. A good friend flew the Lear 28 for a while. Drag bag and all. I think it was the first certified to FL510.

I golfed once with an old time Austrian engineer at Santa Monica. He said he worked for Mr Lear his entire life. Neat guy to say the least.

Anyway, Mooneys are cool to. Lol.

-Matt

[PTK]

My understanding is that vortex generators introduce vortices changing the boundary layer from laminar flow to turbulent. The vortices pull rapidly moving air from above the boundary layer into it close to the surface. A turbulent boundary layer doesn't separate as easily as a laminar one and makes the control surfaces that much more effective at high angles of attack.

Actually, it seems that the Mooney wing stands to benefit greatly from vortex generators at high angles of attack. Also I don't know how they affect speed in cruise. I would think it would be minimal because the wing is not at high angle of attack in cruise. But I'm just guessing.

To folks who have them does this sound logical? Erik?

[Oscar Avalle]

Yup.  I got em'.  I do enjoy very good low speed handling.  And lower than book stall speed.

 

Yeah, got them too. I like them, the plane stalls slower and handles better when flying slow. I don't know if I lost one or two knots, but if so, I still like the real (or psychological) benefits they provide me when landing at high altitude fields or on grass....

[ryoder]

Not a fan just based on my desire to run my microfiber cloth over a slick waxed up wing.

[Andy95W]

Wouldn't it be both?

Like when I use flaps on takeoff?

[Alan Fox]

I was under the understanding , that drag produced by lift was induced drag , and drag produced by other means (cooling , antennas , etc,) was parasitic....Please correct me if I am wrong ,    the flaps on the Mooney , are lift devices as opposed to drag devices... 

[Hank]

Just be careful when moving into experimentation. Reread the above posts about the skin drag that they cause.

Personally, I really don't like their looks. On a working plane (preferably high wing) delivering people and goods into short fields, they are quite practical. But I don't think they serve a useful purpose on high-speed traveling machines. And they are unattractive to see. YMMV, some people like jacked up 4x4s with enormous tires, then never drive them off the pavement.