Another,, "Should I buy this Mooney" thread

[mpg]

Soooo,, Im looking at ads again,,,  all the time,  and I find this.

 

Questions about the avionics.

 

below the transponder,,,   is that just a com, or does it switch to a nav too?

 

above the empty space in the stack,,,  is that an rnav, loran, dme, or a nav/com?

 

below the flap pump handle,,,  what is that vertical row of ???   i never saw a 

panel screwed into that area before

.

looks like two LOC/GS indicators to the left of the stack,,,  do you think

either would still be working,  since the kx 170b was stolen?

 

What do you think about the plane/price/package as a whole?

 

Guesstimate how many AMUs would it probably take to get a good PPI,

Repair,   and an Annual...

 

1962 MOONEY M-20C • $15,500 • FOR SALE BY OWNER • Retired and can no longer afford to fly this. Less than 400hrs on overhauled Lycoming 0-360, "0" time Hartzel cs prop, approx. 4000 hrs airframe. Hasn't been flown in 5 years. Had prop done last annual along with new carb and tires. Has chrome rotors. Runs good, needs battery. Interior isn't too bad, could use some work, headliner is recent. Exterior needs paint. contact me with questions or offers 609 233-6831. Might trade for kit. • Contact Dan Barone, Owner - located Audubon, NJ USA • Telephone: 856 546-3096 • Posted April 4, 2015 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser •Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures

 

 

 

 

[chrisk]

 

 

below the flap pump handle,,,  what is that vertical row of ???   i never saw a 

panel screwed into that area before

 

I believe that is the flap and trim indicator.

[Marauder]

Soooo,, Im looking at ads again,,,  all the time,  and I find this.

 

Questions about the avionics.

 

below the transponder,,,   is that just a com, or does it switch to a nav too?

 

above the empty space in the stack,,,  is that an rnav, loran, dme, or a nav/com?

 

below the flap pump handle,,,  what is that vertical row of ???   i never saw a 

panel screwed into that area before

.

looks like two LOC/GS indicators to the left of the stack,,,  do you think

either would still be working,  since the kx 170b was stolen?

 

What do you think about the plane/price/package as a whole?

 

Guesstimate how many AMUs would it probably take to get a good PPI,

Repair,   and an Annual...

 

1962 MOONEY M-20C • $15,500 • FOR SALE BY OWNER • Retired and can no longer afford to fly this. Less than 400hrs on overhauled Lycoming 0-360, "0" time Hartzel cs prop, approx. 4000 hrs airframe. Hasn't been flown in 5 years. Had prop done last annual along with new carb and tires. Has chrome rotors. Runs good, needs battery. Interior isn't too bad, could use some work, headliner is recent. Exterior needs paint. contact me with questions or offers 609 233-6831. Might trade for kit. • Contact Dan Barone, Owner - located Audubon, NJ USA • Telephone: 856 546-3096 • Posted April 4, 2015 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser •Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures

 

 

 

The unit below the Narco AT50 looks to be an old Narco Com 11A (it may be a 360 channel and I don't think you can use 360 channel radios anymore). It is a comm only radio. There is another Narco VOR receiver in the panel immediately left of the missing KX-170B. If you don't find a slide-in KX-170B replacement (either another one or a TKM unit, I'm not sure you have any Comm radios at this point).

 

The unit above the missing KX-170B is a LORAN unit, a II Morrow (Apollo) 602 -- a boat anchor.

 

As for "below the flap pump handle,,,  what is that vertical row of ???   i never saw a panel screwed into that area before" -- I have no clue. But you should look closely at this plane for rust and corrosion. Both the metal components behind the flap handle and the fuel selector valve show lots of rust.

 

As for "looks like two LOC/GS indicators to the left of the stack,,,  do you think either would still be working,  since the kx 170b was stolen?" -- As I mentioned above, one is a Narco VOR self contained unit. The other appears to be an ILS capable head head to work with the KX-170B. You would need to get a radio to slide-in the missing spot to test and try running the Narco self contained unit.

 

As for the plane itself, well the first warning sign is "Hasn't been flown in 5 years.". Good chance the cam is affected if you are seeing rust already in other areas. But let's assume the engine and prop are okay. Then you are looking at $1000 or so for a replacement KX-170B or MX-170B. I would suspect other stuff isn't working, so figure a few thousand for that stuff. You could easily drop $30k in this plane to bring engine, tanks, avionics, etc. back to life.

[Marauder]

BTW -- this plane is not far from me and may be at one of the airports where some of the NJ Mooney Owners Group members are at. Find out which airport and I can post a message on their Yahoo email node to see if any know the plane and/or owner.

[larryb]

Airplane parts and labor are very expensive. A person will not save any money buying this project. I doubt this plane will ever fly again.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

To add perspective...

My 65C was sold fully run-out, five years ago, for 18amu... Engine, prop, tanks and paint

For a 15k price, Expect to have to spend money on it in large chunks...

The ad says, hasn't flown in five years.....?

Have a PPI done to get a feel for what the large chunks are for that individual plane...

Cs make great first Mooneys,

-a-

[mike20papa]

Find out what prop hub the "0" time prop has - when was it overhauled - five years ago, or this year.  And when was this annual done 5 years ago, or this year.  Any airplane that has been sitting for 5 years would need more than just the typ. annual done to it.  Airframe corrosion is always a possibility, leaking tanks, old & tired shock disks.  The airplane appears to be minimally maintained, so possibly lots of opportunities for the new owner.  Remember the saying, decide what airplane you want and look for what may appear to be the most expensive one out there.  Being a buyers market, the reasoning is that all owners are selling dollars invested for dimes, the more dimes you can spend the more dollars worth of aircraft you are going to end up with.  Unless you're a young guy with lots of $$ looking for a project - just my 2 cents worth (and experience). 

[Shadrach]

If your considering going the budget route, this is plug and play in a 170/175B rack. A nice solid nav/com for $1600.00. http://bennettavionics.com/mac1700.html

The problem with a plane like this is the cost of making it airworthy and acceptable. If you're an intuitive wrench with a willing A&P and have the time to put in some sweat equity, this could be worth your while. I'd insist on pulling a jug on the prebuy. $15,500 is not a lot for a solid XC aircraft. You need someone to help you ensure that you're not buying $70,000 worth of squawks for a $15,500.

[47U]

The vertical row below the flap pump handle is the flap and trim position indicators. But, take Marauder's advice. Find someone local to put eyes on this lonely bird to see if there is anything left of her to pursue. Five years since the last annual... tied down outside.... in New Jersey... that's pretty scary. If you're looking for a restoration project, surely there's one closer than on the opposite coast.

[TTaylor]

Two years ago I bought a plane across the country and out of annual. Figure minimum $3500 for the annual plus $2000 for travel. Another $10K for upgrades and repairs when you get home A $30k plane in current annual near you starts to look cheap.

[Mooneymite]

Run, Forest, run!

[DAVIDWH]

A bit of history you might want to review......

 

When J.D. Rockefeller was asked at a high level social event about the cost of his new yacht, he replied

 

"If you have to ask you can't afford it".

 

Example, I recently found out I can't afford my bargain bought golf cart tow motor.

[ryoder]

I bought my Mooney for 20k and it was just annualled for 4k the day I bought it. Since then I have been flying and maintaining it and it's expensive enough doing that on one that was already airworthy to start with I would now not consider anything starting out unairworthy.

[N33GG]

Send the $15,500 to me, and forget about this aircraft.

You will be money ahead, and a lot happier.

I have no hidden fees for this service.

[ryoder]

I really don't understand why Mooney put the tach and MP all the way on the right.  Mine is in the perfect position right near the throttle and prop controls.  My panel is a little weird but at least I have stuff that doesn't matter as much: such as the vacuum, adf, egt off to the right side.

[BigTex]

MPG, one question... Why are you looking at this plane? If your answer is that it's all you can afford, don't buy it. The ONLY way I'd consider this plane is that I have tons of extra money that I could easily spend $45K for a nice plane but prefer a project plane to tinker with and lots of extra time.

If $15K is your budget, I recommend looking at other types of planes. I personally think it realistically takes twice that amount to get into a decent Mooney. Then half that much each year to keep it in the air.

It pains me but this plane may never fly again...

[HRM]

Soooo,, Im looking at ads again,,,  all the time,  and I find this.

 

All the others have summed this plane up well (I am just trying to up my post count to Won't Leave!).

 

Anyhoo, this is clearly a project.

 

Based on your questions, and please do not be offended, you are not ready for this one.

 

Although I do not agree with those saying that this Mooney will never fly again; i.e., scrap it, this Mooney needs an owner who has an A&P ticket, with a lot of time on his hands (retired) and with significant Mooney knowledge.

 

The future of this bird lies completely with "how much damage did not flying for 5 years wreak?" Assessing that will require skills way beyond yours and will not be free.

[cujet]

Nearly all the above posts mirror the same response. Without ever seeing the aircraft I might add... Few people can fully articulate why they will offer such advice. Or even offer a single valid reason why an old, unairworthy aircraft should not be purchased. 

 

So, I'll offer a professional's opinion: 

 

All mechanical things deteriorate and aircraft are no exception. Except,,, your life depends on the quality of many structural and dynamic components. I purchased such an aircraft, with the intention of rebuilding, overhauling and repairing every aspect of the bird. The overhaul took me 2 years. My reasoning was that I'd know the condition of each and every part. Somewhere North of 2000 man hours later, I was flying. At my current level of income, those hours could have purchased a really, really nice, powerful, newer, very capable aircraft. 

 

What I found was that nothing on the plane was in acceptable shape and I mean NOTHING. Even the smallest aluminum part was either corroded or worn out. Every bushing and bearing needed replacement. Every bolt was corroded, every clamp/fitting/bit of hardware/tubing/clevis/oring/seal/baffle/hose/actuator/connector/breaker/wire, you name it, was cracked, worn out, damaged, brittle, dry rotted and in need of replacement. 

 

Sure, I ended up with an airworthy airplane that I fully trust (and that was my intention) . The cost was staggering, my labor was free, and, it still needs a paint job... 2000 hours labor @ $90/hr = $180,000. And the airplane is still worth $40,000. Sure, I could have ignored the cosmetics. But, as you may have guessed, that's not where the majority of the time went. 

 

Don't do it unless you specifically want such a project, can afford the enormous expense, have the time, and expertise. AND, you are fully willing to deal with some major setbacks, such as a corroded wing spar (needs a new wing) or other unexpected major component replacement. 

 

Check out my simple website detailing my project:

 

www.cujet.com

[bonal]

Cujet, checked out your site. You are one serious motor head and your restoration is a labor of love. My wife and I really liked the shots of your puppies at the end. Thank you for sharing. As for the OP unless you have time money and experience my gut says stay away. Patience is a most valuable virtue your plane will come give it time.

[gsxrpilot]

Every $1 spent up front on the purchase will save you $4 in restoration.

[dcrogers11]

MPG, Best of luck on your search.  I have to agree with most everyone here and say that there are a lot of potential cost just to get it is airworthy.  Then the real money will be needed once you decide on the avionics that you want to upgrade to later.  One example is that the engine compartment photo shows the battery box is corroded.  It might be repairable, but the replacement from Mooney is $1200 for a new one and there are almost no serviceable used ones around.  New box and battery and you've spent 10% of what the plane original cost and you've just got started.  

 

I purchased my plane in 2009.  The previous owner allowed the plane to set in a hangar for over 10 years.  He spent close to $25,000 on the annual to make it airworthy to sell which included the overhaul due to a corroded cam.  

 

Good luck to you,

Don

 

 

 

 

 

[bonal]

Every $1 spent up front on the purchase will save you $4 in restoration.

That is probably a conservative estimate more like 10 to 1

[ryoder]

So the best way to save money is to defer maintenance, avoid upgrades, and sell the plane to a sucker who will pay for it. That kind of sucks.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Especially if you were/are that sucker...

[Bob_Belville]

I really don't understand why Mooney put the tach and MP all the way on the right.  Mine is in the perfect position right near the throttle and prop controls.  My panel is a little weird but at least I have stuff that doesn't matter as much: such as the vacuum, adf, egt off to the right side.

I disagree that the tach and manifold pressure ought to be more in the normal scan than adf or EGT. When it was installed the ADF was a critical part of non-precision approaches. And you need to be watching the EGT while leaning the engine. The MAP and Tach on the other hand only are of interest a couple of times per flight and are not likely to need constant attention. The vacuum gauge ought to be in you scan... it reports boring information until it gets exciting.