Bob E

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About Bob E

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    Male
  • Location
    KOSU
  • Reg #
    N5936Q
  • Model
    M20C

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  1. Very nice IFR bird - good combination of instrumentation, well-laid-out. (I assume the G5 is tied into the 430W.) May you enjoy many years of safe flying!
  2. Thanks much, EricJ - much appreciated! The whole bulb debate may seem a bit absurd, but it's actually a fascinating dive into the arcane world of specs and standards that lurks behind the Part 91 stuff that us mere owner-pilots try to comply with. I'm an attorney and I'm used to in-depth research, but the amount of historical and current data / information you guys on this forum come up with is truly impressive.
  3. EricJ and Cliffy, I'm not an engineer but I'd sure like to hear your responses to my questions above -- the ones about Whelan claiming TSO under C30b, a standard that no longer applies, and the three questions I asked right after that regarding TSO C30c, why incandescent position light bulbs aren't marked "TSO," and why I can't just replace a 7512-12 bulb with a 7512-12 bulb. I'm interested in this thread, but I can't believe aircraft owners need to have an engineering degree just to replace a light bulb. I'm perfectly happy to rely on my IA as well as the article in the October 2019 AOPA Pilot magazine. Maybe the real question is: "How many MooneySpace members does it take to change a light bulb?"
  4. It gets interestinger and interestinger. The "newer" C30c, is itself is more than 30 years old; LEDs hadn't been invented yet. But I have some questions. 1. I read through TSO C30c. (Thanks for the link EricJ!) When this TSO refers to "position lights" it clearly refers to the entire position light assembly, not to a light bulb. It includes standards for "installation procedures," "wiring diagrams," and "list of the major components." That clearly isn't a TSO for a light bulb. 2. TSO C30c says it "prescribes the minimum performance standards that aircraft position lights must meet in order to be identified with the applicable TSO marking." If the position light assembly, not just the bulb, is what's being TSO'd, what basis is there for TSO'ing an individual light bulb separate from the assembly? If the actual bulbs themselves must be TSO'd, why is it that the incandescent position light bulbs specified for the M20C (which I still have, and which are identical to those in the photo of the original post at the top of this thread) are NOT marked as TSO'd? There is no "applicable TSO marking" on them. Does that mean the exact-replacement-spec incandescent light bulbs are not TSO'd and therefore not legal? 3. Light bulbs are generally cross-referenced; different manufacturers have different part numbers. The part number on the incandescent position light bulb for my M20c is WL-A-7512-12. That's a RAPCO bulb. The same bulb is made by made by different manufacturers; each has a different part number. See for example this cross-reference chart: www.csobeech.com/files/LampCrossReference.pdf. What they all have in common (other than Whelan, which has a completely different part number) is 7512-12. There are plenty of 7512-12 LED position light bulbs on the market. If light bulbs themselves are not (or at least do not have to be) TSO'd, and if under current FAA interpretation of the regs the owner can replace light bulbs (see my earlier post, including the reference to the article in the October 2019 issue of AOPA Pilot), what basis is there for saying it is not permissible for a pilot to replace a 7512-12 incandescent bulb, with a 7512-12 LED bulb?
  5. As MarkGrue said: "If you look closely you will see a small "b" at the end of the TSO number. The new TSO has a "c" at the end." That's true. So then why does Whelen claim that its position light bulbs are TSO's under C30b?
  6. Probably 5 or 6 times. I usually need one shot for a cold engine, none and half throttle for a hot one.
  7. Ok, I'll keep the pot boiling a bit longer. What the heck. TSO-C30b is an ancient TSO dating back to 1957. It's an “active historical” TSO, not even available for new designs. And as EricJ points out, the SAE specification to which it refers, SAE AS271, shows up as "Cancelled" on the SAE site. How can Whelen claim to have TSO approval for a position light bulb when the spec is cancelled and approval is no longer available? From the FAA website:
  8. Eagle1671's after-fire turned out to be a cracked engine mount. Problem diagnosed and fixed. Great outcome! But let's return to the subject of after-fire. Experienced Mooney owners already know about this, but since there are a fair number of new folks on the forum, let me describe a dangerous situation that is easily avoided. With my carbureted M20C there have only been a couple of times I've had issues with fuel burning somewhere other than inside the cylinders. One time was years ago when probably I didn't pull the mixture control completely during shutdown, and got a backfire on startup that blew out a muffler baffle. Expensive lesson but otherwise harmless. The other time was recently. After a long flight my son (who is also a pilot with about 100 hours in this aircraft) and I landed to refuel. After refueling we decided to park the aircraft. My son was at the controls and I stayed outside and went over to the tie-down spot to help guide him in. He cranked the engine but it didn't start at first. He cranked a couple more times and I walked over toward the aircraft and yelled "lean it out more." He opened the little pilot's window to hear me better and cranked some more -- at which time I saw flames coming out of the bottom of the engine! I yelled "lean it out, start it NOW!" He did and the engine then started; that extinguished the flames. It all happened so fast that I hadn't even had time to look for the fire extinguisher (which was close by). We shut down and inspected for damage - and fortunately nothing. Paint not singed, fabric and nylon fasteners unaffected, etc. The flames had lasted for maybe five or six seconds. We figured out what happened: He didn't realize you don't prime a hot engine. He just went through his checklist, and priming -- that is boost pump on, give the throttle a couple of squirts -- was part of the checklist. When the engine didn't start the first time, he kept boosting and squirting. We were fortunate that he finally leaned the engine, which then started immediately. Lesson learned: My fault for not giving him sufficient information. We revised our checklist.
  9. As far as I can tell, TSO-C30c is for position lights -- a position light is an assembly including socket, wiring, housing, bulb and lens -- not for the light bulbs in them. But like you mentioned, I'll go with my IA's opinion (as well as that new AOPA Pilot article). At this point going around and round on the legality, while really interesting and actually educational too, is kinda like debating angels on the head of a pin. Those old odd-shaped bulbs were expensive, ran hot, and burned out fairly often -- in the middle of night flight. The new LED bulbs are bright, the color is pure and intense, they use almost no electricity, and are safer because they won't burn out just when you need them. (Same thing for my LED landing light -- about twice as bright as the old one, won't blow out when I'm on final, and the radios and lights don't dim when I switch it on. I can keep it on all the time.)
  10. You can switch to LED bulbs. No paperwork required when one replaces a light bulb. For the latest on this, check out the October 2019 issue of AOPA pilot, page 90, "What is preventive maintenance?" Some background: FAR 23.1391, which covered position light design, no longer exists since the rewrite on Part 23: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...80b2bb506ebc9&mc=true&node=pt14.1.23&rgn=div5 In any case, Part 23 covers airworthiness standards for aircraft certification. The relevant FAR is 91.205(c)(2): An aircraft must be equipped with “approved position lights” for night flight. (Note: not “approved position light bulbs.”) Part 91, the General Operating and Flight Rules, contains the basic equipment requirements, maintenance/inspection requirements, flight rules, etc. and places responsibility on the owner/operator. There’s also 14 CFR Ch. I, Appendix A to Part 43 – Major Alterations, Major Repairs, and Preventive Maintenance. Paragraph (c)(17) states that “Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and landing lights” is preventive maintenance, and paragraph (c)(30) allows the pilot-owner to do preventive maintenance. So, may I simply replace my old incandescent position light bulbs with LED bulbs? Yes. Unlike anti-collision lights, position light bulbs are not TSO'd. Certainly no 337 needed. The bulbs in my position lights are Aero-Lite LEDs. The wingtip light bulbs are aviation green and red; the colors are pure and brilliant when the bulbs are under the original colored lenses. But a caveat. There’s the issue of electromagnetic interference. The Aero-Lite brochure refers to FAR 23.1383, which no longer exists, BUT it also states that you have to test for EMI if you have any HSI compass components within 24 inches of the bulb or the wire powering it, by doing a compass swing with the light switched on and noting any compass position error. Regulation or no regulation, this is a sensible precaution. That’s the case for me; I have a G5 HSI, which requires a magnetometer near the end of the wing. The avionics shop that installed it did that check. By the way, the “LED position light” issue seems to be a topic of endless debate on aircraft owner forums. This post is basically the same as I posted here back in June. (Edited to use "position light bulbs" instead of "position lights" in a couple of places.)
  11. Hey Brett, I remember when I first bought my Mooney 33 years ago (yep!) and how little I knew about it, and about flying, and about annuals and maintenance, etc. My recommendations: 1. Find a mechanic to do your annuals who knows older Mooneys like yours at least somewhat. 2. Have anyone who is familar with the O-360 engine give you a tour of what's under the cowling so you know what and where everything is -- where the throttle, mixture, and prop cables are, where the EGT sensor is, where the landing light wires go past the exhaust, and yes, where the vacuum pump is. 3. One advantage of older aircraft is that the ADs have kind of settled down, but the disadvantage is that parts are harder to find. If you plan on keeping your aircraft for a while -- and when I bought mine as a single guy I never dreamed that I'd still have it three decades later, or that my future son would get his instrument rating in it! -- don't skimp on anything, especially preventive maintenance. Replace the fuel-filler O-rings before they really have to be replaced. Know the service life of your battery and replace it just before it fails. 4. If you upgrade, buy quality. Yellow-tagged used avionics from Garmin or Bendix/King can be a smarter investment than new avionics from a company that might not be around in five years. I hear you on not wanting to get rid of the vacuum system just yet, but remember: Not only did you just lose your vacuum pump, but you also have two other vacuum-driven instruments with moving parts that are expensive to overhaul. If you invest in another vacuum pump, you're financially committing yourself to more outdated technology and to overhauling rather than replacing that AI later. Now may be the time to consider G5's, even if you have to finance them. Good luck! Fly safe.
  12. Maybe this will help. I've helped a few clients with this stuff. (I'm an attorney -- it helps pay the cost of flying!) You'll probably want a trust, which means you'll need the affidavit referred to in 47.7. Talk to your insurance carrier before doing any of this. 14 CFR §47.3 Registration required. (a) An aircraft may be registered under 49 U.S.C. 44103 only when the aircraft is not registered under the laws of a foreign country and is— (1) Owned by a citizen of the United States; §47.2 Definitions. The following are definitions of terms used in this part: . . . U.S. citizen means one of the following: (1) An individual who is a citizen of the United States or one of its possessions. (2) A partnership each of whose partners is an individual who is a citizen of the United States. (3) A corporation or association organized under the laws of the United States or a State, . . . of which the president and at least two-thirds of the board of directors and other managing officers are citizens of the United States, which is under the actual control of citizens of the United States, and in which at least 75 percent of the voting interest is owned or controlled by persons that are citizens of the United States. . . . §47.7 United States citizens and resident aliens. (a) U.S. citizens. An applicant for aircraft registration under this part who is a U.S. citizen must certify to this in the Aircraft Registration Application, AC Form 8050-1. ... (c) Trustees. An applicant for aircraft registration under 49 U.S.C. 44102 that holds legal title to an aircraft in trust must comply with the following requirements: (1) Each trustee must be either a U.S. citizen or a resident alien. (2) The applicant must submit with the Aircraft Registration Application— (i) A copy of each document legally affecting a relationship under the trust; (ii) If each beneficiary under the trust, including each person whose security interest in the aircraft is incorporated in the trust, is either a U.S. citizen or a resident alien, an affidavit by the applicant to that effect; and (iii) If any beneficiary under the trust, including any person whose security interest in the aircraft is incorporated in the trust, is not a U.S. citizen or resident alien, an affidavit from each trustee stating that the trustee is not aware of any reason, situation, or relationship (involving beneficiaries or other persons who are not U.S. citizens or resident aliens) as a result of which those persons together would have more than 25 percent of the aggregate power to influence or limit the exercise of the trustee's authority. (3) If persons who are neither U.S. citizens nor resident aliens have the power to direct or remove a trustee, either directly or indirectly through the control of another person, the trust instrument must provide that those persons together may not have more than 25 percent of the aggregate power to direct or remove a trustee. Nothing in this paragraph prevents those persons from having more than 25 percent of the beneficial interest in the trust. §47.8 Voting trusts. (a) If a voting trust is used to qualify a domestic corporation as a U.S. citizen, the corporate applicant must submit to the Registry— (1) A true copy of the fully executed voting trust agreement, which must identify each voting interest of the applicant, and which must be binding upon each voting trustee, the applicant corporation, all foreign stockholders, and each other party to the transaction; and (2) An affidavit executed by each person designated as voting trustee in the voting trust agreement, in which each affiant represents— (i) That each voting trustee is a citizen of the United States within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 40102(a)(15). (ii) That each voting trustee is not a past, present, or prospective director, officer, employee, attorney, or agent of any other party to the trust agreement; (iii) That each voting trustee is not a present or prospective beneficiary, creditor, debtor, supplier or contractor of any other party to the trust agreement; (iv) That each voting trustee is not aware of any reason, situation, or relationship under which any other party to the agreement might influence the exercise of the voting trustee's totally independent judgment under the voting trust agreement. (b) Each voting trust agreement submitted under paragraph (a)(1) of this section must provide for the succession of a voting trustee in the event of death, disability, resignation, termination of citizenship, or any other event leading to the replacement of any voting trustee. Upon succession, the replacement voting trustee shall immediately submit to the Registry the affidavit required by paragraph (a)(2) of this section. (c) If the voting trust terminates or is modified, and the result is less than 75 percent control of the voting interest in the corporation by citizens of the United States, a loss of citizenship of the holder of the Certificate of Aircraft Registration, AC Form 8050-3 occurs, and §47.41(a)(3) of this part applies. (d) A voting trust agreement may not empower a trustee to act through a proxy. §47.11 Evidence of ownership. Except as provided in §§47.33 and 47.35, each person that submits an Aircraft Registration Application, AC Form 8050-1 under this part must also submit the required evidence of ownership, recordable under §§49.13 and 49.17 of this chapter, as follows: (a) The buyer in possession, the bailee, or the lessee of an aircraft under a contract of conditional sale must submit the contract. The assignee under a contract of conditional sale must submit both the contract (unless it is already recorded at the Registry), and his assignment from the original buyer, bailee, lessee, or prior assignee. . . . (h) The trustee of property that includes an aircraft, as described in §47.7(c), must submit either a certified copy of the order of the court appointing the trustee, or a complete and true copy of the instrument creating the trust. If there is more than one trustee, each trustee must sign the Aircraft Registration Application. The Certificate of Aircraft Registration is issued to a single applicant as trustee, or to several trustees jointly as co-trustees.
  13. Bob E. , son Anthony and his GF Sarah will be there too - first time we'll get together with Mooneyspace folks!
  14. I think jaylw314's cautionary reminder is well-taken. Some context: FAR 23.1391, which covered position light design, no longer exists since the rewrite on Part 23: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...80b2bb506ebc9&mc=true&node=pt14.1.23&rgn=div5 In any case, Part 23 covers airworthiness standards for aircraft certification. The relevant FAR is 91.205(c)(2): An aircraft must be equipped with “approved position lights” for night flight. (Note: not “approved position light bulbs.”) Part 91, the General Operating and Flight Rules, contains the basic equipment requirements, maintenance/inspection requirements, flight rules, etc. and places responsibility on the owner/operator. There’s also 14 CFR Ch. I, Appendix A to Part 43 – Major Alterations, Major Repairs, and Preventive Maintenance. Paragraph (c)(17) states that “Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and landing lights” is preventive maintenance, and paragraph (c)(30) allows the pilot-owner to do preventive maintenance. So, may I simply replace my old incandescent position light bulbs with LED bulbs of the same type? Maybe, but not so fast. There’s the issue of electromagnetic interference. The Aero-Lites position light installation brochure refers to FAR 23.1383, which no longer exists, BUT it also states that you have to test for EMI if you have any HSI compass components within 24 inches of the bulb or the wire powering it, by doing a compass swing with the light switched on and noting any compass position error. Regulation or no regulation, this is a sensible precaution. That’s the case for me; I have a G5 HSI, which requires a magnetometer near the end of the wing. The avionics shop that installed it did that check. By the way, the “LED position light” issue seems to be a topic of endless debate on aircraft owner forums.