Angel Flights

[wings_level]

So, considering maybe doing a few Angel Flights.  Wondering how feasible it would be for these folks to get in and out of my C model.  Anyone else done these flights in their Mooney and if so, any troubles with folks getting in and out?  Mooneys are not the roomiest of planes, especially short body C models.

[Pinecone]

There is a J a few hangars away from mine.  He does Angel Flights.

I would think you would need to work with them on the size and mobility of the people.

[wings_level]

3 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

There is a J a few hangars away from mine.  He does Angel Flights.

I would think you would need to work with them on the size and mobility of the people.

They do list the weights of each passenger.  So from a weight perspective, not really an issue. I can generally carry a couple folks no problem.  Just the mobility part that concerns me a little.

[Pinecone]

I was thinking in more of a size issue.

Also, with a Mooney, you sit down into it and have to climb out of it.

I would love to take my 96 year old Dad for a ride, but I don't think de could get back out.

[Ragsf15e]

53 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

I was thinking in more of a size issue.

Also, with a Mooney, you sit down into it and have to climb out of it.

I would love to take my 96 year old Dad for a ride, but I don't think de could get back out.

It is tough, but I’ve taken my dad and he’s mobility challenged.  To get out he basically lifted his butt up an inch or two and shifted out onto the wing walk.  Then he was able to turn around and get his legs pointed downhill.  It was easy after that.  Emergency egress? Forget about it.

[Culver LFA]

56 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

I was thinking in more of a size issue.

Also, with a Mooney, you sit down into it and have to climb out of it.

I would love to take my 96 year old Dad for a ride, but I don't think de could get back out.

My father-in-law's mobility and stability was not good enough for him to step from the footstep to the wing, I still have a little dent in the baggage door from his palm pressing firmly against it trying to keep his balance.  He was determined to get into the airplane so I took him around the front, had him step up on a little foot stool and sit down on the leading edge of the wing.  He then scooted backwards and slid into the seat.  We didn't fly that day but he sat there for a good 10 minutes and told stories about when he was flight training as a private pilot back in the day.  That ended up being his last time in an airplane so it was all worth it.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Culver LFA

[cbarry]

I fly Angel Flights and I think the easiest seat for the passenger to get into and out of is the right rear seat.  You can slide the copilot seat fully forward and they can step down into the rear floor board with their left foot first, use the copilot seat to help brace with as they place their right foot in (the manner in which the top of the cabin door carves into the cabin helps a great deal…)  This will have them in a position to simply sit down into the right back seat.  Getting out is just in reverse.  I also use a foldable two step, step stool that has the top step just about at the same height as the wing walk.  This helps stabilize the passenger’s footing and avoid flap damage.  With two passengers, I ask the less mobile to sit in the back rear seat and the more mobile to sit in the copilot seat.  With a C model, I would think this approach will work just fine.  Just keep the copilot seat mostly forward to provide a little more room.

[carusoam]

There are many Angel Flight people around here…

Lots of topics covered as well… for insurance, scheduling, what the passengers need to know, what the pilot needs to know…

A few MSers do this often…

 

1) For improved mobility… often people get on the wing from the leading edge, sitting down, and scoot towards the cabin…

2) with the co-pilot seat removed… entry/exit to the back seat is as good as it gets…

 

Lots of heart warming stories come with Angel Flights… some are as simple as a cancer patient traveling for a usual medical appointment…  their mobility can be perfect…  but, their ability to stay on the road for hours can be really limited….

Let’s see if @Yooper Rocketman is around… he has some good experience to share…

Let’s invite @201er… I believe he has done some Angel Flights as well…

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Boilermonkey]

I've done Angel Flights in my old M20C and the M20M.  I usually will take no more than two adults and a child as long as the child is the patient.  Otherwise 1-2 adults putting the less able passenger in back as someone else mentioned.   

As soon as the flight is assigned to you, call the patient and talk about mobility.  If they aren't comfortable with what you describe then they can repost the flight.  As long as you are planning ahead it isn't a big deal.

.....you can make it work.

[kortopates]

Most Angel flight pax don't have a mobility issue at all - rare really. Many are just headed for doctors visits or treatments. Those that are mobility challenged will also be using a walker that will be listed with the baggage because not everyone can fit them into the plane. The key thing is that these are not medical flights. You should talk to your Angel Flight coordinator or attend their no obligation introductory briefing to get the facts. 

[wings_level]

48 minutes ago, cbarry said:

I fly Angel Flights and I think the easiest seat for the passenger to get into and out of is the right rear seat.  You can slide the copilot seat fully forward and they can step down into the rear floor board with their left foot first, use the copilot seat to help brace with as they place their right foot in (the manner in which the top of the cabin door carves into the cabin helps a great deal…)  This will have them in a position to simply sit down into the right back seat.  Getting out is just in reverse.  I also use a foldable two step, step stool that has the top step just about at the same height as the wing walk.  This helps stabilize the passenger’s footing and avoid flap damage.  With two passengers, I ask the less mobile to sit in the back rear seat and the more mobile to sit in the copilot seat.  With a C model, I would think this approach will work just fine.  Just keep the copilot seat mostly forward to provide a little more room.

I agree with this approach.  This is something I have been thinking about.  Seems like the rear seat would be the best.  I am kinda concerned about flap damage though.  Do not want them stepping on the flap as they enter or exit from the wing.

[cbarry]

31 minutes ago, wings_level said:

I agree with this approach.  This is something I have been thinking about.  Seems like the rear seat would be the best.  I am kinda concerned about flap damage though.  Do not want them stepping on the flap as they enter or exit from the wing.

If your flaps are  in the fully down position when loading and unloading, this mitigates passengers tendency to step on the flaps plus it reduces the distance to the wing walk area from the top step of the stool.

[wings_level]

7 minutes ago, cbarry said:

If your flaps are  in the fully down position when loading and unloading, this mitigates passengers tendency to step on the flaps plus it reduces the distance to the wing walk area from the top step of the stool.

I have a retractable step.  Step won’t come out if flaps are down.

[carusoam]

Flaps always go down….

Before loading unfamiliar passengers….

 

There are some Mooneys that oddly got the non-slip stripe that extends over the flaps…. It looks good, but is inviting to be stepped on!

So much new stuff going on for unfamiliar people…. It is easy to forget what they have been told.

 

PP thoughts only, stuff I read around here somewhere….

Best regards,

-a-

[KLRDMD]

I used to do a lot of Angel Flights in my turbo F.

https://www.tucsonlocalmedia.com/el_sol/article_7c7b2d14-6fa6-53b7-aacb-c9c45e20e7d6.html

[carusoam]

2 minutes ago, wings_level said:

I have a retractable step.  Step won’t come out if flaps are down.

How does it know?

My M20C had the vacuum retract step… very independent of flap position…

If you have the electric step… we could ask Rob.   

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

Minus baggage it’s pretty hard to get a Mooney out of w&b

[Pinecone]

10 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

It is tough, but I’ve taken my dad and he’s mobility challenged.  To get out he basically lifted his butt up an inch or two and shifted out onto the wing walk.  Then he was able to turn around and get his legs pointed downhill.  It was easy after that.  Emergency egress? Forget about it.

 

10 hours ago, Culver LFA said:

My father-in-law's mobility and stability was not good enough for him to step from the footstep to the wing, I still have a little dent in the baggage door from his palm pressing firmly against it trying to keep his balance.  He was determined to get into the airplane so I took him around the front, had him step up on a little foot stool and sit down on the leading edge of the wing.  He then scooted backwards and slid into the seat.  We didn't fly that day but he sat there for a good 10 minutes and told stories about when he was flight training as a private pilot back in the day.  That ended up being his last time in an airplane so it was all worth it.

My Dad would have a hard time with the step stool even.

Maybe I could make a ramp he could crawl up.

Although I have a friend with a Cardinal.  Easey peasey.  She seems amenable to my flying it, just have to find out the insurance issues.

[takair]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

How does it know?

My M20C had the vacuum retract step… very independent of flap position…

If you have the electric step… we could ask Rob.   

Best regards,

-a-

I’m trying to picture why it might not come down. I know I’ve put my flaps down to avoid PAX damage. There should be a cut out. Perhaps it is a retrofitted fixed step plane?

[cbarry]

9 hours ago, wings_level said:

I have a retractable step.  Step won’t come out if flaps are down.

That’s even better.  That way there’s no confusion regarding what to step on since I was talking about placing a two step stool for easier egress to assist passengers.  This approach is not Angel flight passenger specific.  It’s for passengers that are just a little unfamiliar with aircraft in general and to simply help make the flight as easy and safe (for everyone/thing) as possible.

[Fly Boomer]

16 hours ago, wings_level said:

So, considering maybe doing a few Angel Flights.  Wondering how feasible it would be for these folks to get in and out of my C model.  Anyone else done these flights in their Mooney and if so, any troubles with folks getting in and out?  Mooneys are not the roomiest of planes, especially short body C models.

Here is another similar topic:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/43662-looking-for-the-perfect-lightweight-folding-step-ladder-for-the-201-wing-to-protect-the-flaps/#comment-759443

 

[carusoam]

On 4/2/2023 at 8:03 AM, takair said:

I’m trying to picture why it might not come down. I know I’ve put my flaps down to avoid PAX damage. There should be a cut out. Perhaps it is a retrofitted fixed step plane?

@wings_level

See the note from Rob Takair above…

Rob is the most knowledgable person regarding Mooney steps… 

Did you say the step can’t go down when the flaps are down?

See if you can refresh our memory of the detail???

Best regards,

-a-

[wings_level]

I looked at this again the other day.  There is a small cut out that allows for the flap to miss the step.  But for some reason I recall my step did not extend out when I left the flaps down after shut down one time.  I assumed the flaps being extended was the reason the step did not come out.  But those two may be completely unrelated.  Because like was said, the step does not know if the flaps are extended or not.

[Yooper Rocketman]

I guess it is a bit obvious I don't get on this forum much anymore (my late response).  Thanks @carusoam

I have done hundreds of Med Flights, starting with a ton of them in my F Model.  I had one guy I flew out of the U.P. to Chicago, landing at Migs (yes, it was quite a while ago).  His mobility was pretty marginal so I brought a blanket and step along.  I had him back up to the LE of the wing on the step, sit on the wing, and I pulled the blanket and him to the door opening.  I was able to assist him boarding from my seat and pretty much reversed the process to de-board.

In my Rocket one time I flew into Newberry, MI in January, temps well below zero, for a transport to Rochester, MN (Mayo Clinic).  When the patient arrived in an ambulance I was thinking WTH?  I called my dispatcher and asked and he said he knew she was borderline and, if I couldn't fly her it was fine, they would just place her in Hospice (ARGH).  This was her last chance to possibly survive with proper medical care.  The ambulance crew said she could stand and board, with major assistance.  So..... I pulled the co-pilot seat out, asked the FBO to store it for me until I could return and pick it up.  She boarded fairly well and I was able to get her to Mayo.  These two stories are just a few of the more challenging ones, in the life of a mercy med pilot over the last 30 years, mostly in a Mooney.  I could write a book.

Bottom line;  Probably 90% of my flights have been for very mobile people allowing very easy and rewarding flights.  Just make sure your dispatcher knows what your capabilities are (pilot, weather wise and equipment).  

My last flight in my Lancair turboprop in December of 2021 (and we lost that little 6 year old seven months later , I was told his favorite plane to fly in over his several years of trips was mine!!), and a more recent one with my "second time owned" Mooney Rocket.

Tom

[ilovecornfields]

5 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

I guess it is a bit obvious I don't get on this forum much anymore (my late response).  Thanks @carusoam

I have done hundreds of Med Flights, starting with a ton of them in my F Model.  I had one guy I flew out of the U.P. to Chicago, landing at Migs (yes, it was quite a while ago).  His mobility was pretty marginal so I brought a blanket and step along.  I had him back up to the LE of the wing on the step, sit on the wing, and I pulled the blanket and him to the door opening.  I was able to assist him boarding from my seat and pretty much reversed the process to de-board.

In my Rocket one time I flew into Newberry, MI in January, temps well below zero, for a transport to Rochester, MN (Mayo Clinic).  When the patient arrived in an ambulance I was thinking WTH?  I called my dispatcher and asked and he said he knew she was borderline and, if I couldn't fly her it was fine, they would just place her in Hospice (ARGH).  This was her last chance to possibly survive with proper medical care.  The ambulance crew said she could stand and board, with major assistance.  So..... I pulled the co-pilot seat out, asked the FBO to store it for me until I could return and pick it up.  She boarded fairly well and I was able to get her to Mayo.  These two stories are just a few of the more challenging ones, in the life of a mercy med pilot over the last 30 years, mostly in a Mooney.  I could write a book.

Bottom line;  Probably 90% of my flights have been for very mobile people allowing very easy and rewarding flights.  Just make sure your dispatcher knows what your capabilities are (pilot, weather wise and equipment).  

My last flight in my Lancair turboprop in December of 2021 (and we lost that little 6 year old seven months later , I was told his favorite plane to fly in over his several years of trips was mine!!), and a more recent one with my "second time owned" Mooney Rocket.

Tom

Nice to have you back!