Mooney down in Jefferson county, West Virginia

[Nick Pilotte]

Prayers for all involved.

2 dead in plane crash

Taken from the article, “JEFFERSON COUNTY, W.Va. (WDVM) — Update(9:10p.m.) The victims of the plane crash have been identified. West Virginia State Police say Randy Garcia, 67, from Inwood W.Va. and Clinton Powers, 70, from Inwood W.Va. were pronounced dead on the scene of the crash of the 1960 Mooney single-engine aircraft.”

Edited October 25, 2019 by Nick Pilotte

[RogueOne]

Wood wing?  Very sad.

[mike_elliott]

If anyone knows how to contact Mrs Garcia or Mrs Powers, please let me know. So sad...

 

[carusoam]

Mike,

See if this is helpful... or at least confirming with other data you may get...

https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/Main.aspx

The other Pilot named.. their personal data is blocked...

Prayers,

-a-

[kpaul]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

Mike,

See if this is helpful... or at least confirming with other data you may get...

https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/Main.aspx

The other Pilot named.. their personal data is blocked...

Prayers,

-a-

Sad, it appears that Mr. Powers recently retired.  Went from a First Class physical with 757/767 type ratings to basic med this year.

[steingar]

They found flat spot even. What a shame.

[Yetti]

23 minutes ago, steingar said:

They found flat spot even. What a shame.

600 block of Hawthorne Avenue in Summit Point about seven miles southeast of Eastern West Virginia Regional Airport at around 4:36 p.m. Thursday.

There is a pretty good ground indention at the start of the burned grass where they started sliding.  Wing is on the other side of the road.   fuselage is bent to having the left wing hitting first.  possible stall spin.   Keep the speed up folks.   sad situation for everyone involved. prayers to the family.

[Nick Pilotte]

Ugh, there are some high tension power lines right there in that block. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Nick Pilotte
Poor grammar

[orionflt]

Prayers for the families  

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

600 block of Hawthorne Avenue in Summit Point about seven miles southeast of Eastern West Virginia Regional Airport at around 4:36 p.m. Thursday.

There is a pretty good ground indention at the start of the burned grass where they started sliding.  Wing is on the other side of the road.   fuselage is bent to having the left wing hitting first.  possible stall spin.   Keep the speed up folks.   sad situation for everyone involved. prayers to the family.

If a 757 captain can stall spin then any of us can - yes keep the speed up.

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

If a 757 captain can stall spin then any of us can - yes keep the speed up.

I suspect it wasn't so much a stall spin but collision with the high power lines almost directly above that you can see in the video and that Nick refers to above. Perhap they were maneuvering to the very nearby private airport 61VA. I wondered if it could be an instructional flight but I see the Captain's CFI expired some 35+ years ago, so probably not. But if indeed it was a collision with the power lines, something had them flying very low and the best I could come up with is the very close by private airport. Perhaps the preliminary will tell us. 

Wonder if the power lines have the large orange balls on them like they do out west? I couldn't tell from the satellite view.

[Skates97]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

600 block of Hawthorne Avenue in Summit Point about seven miles southeast of Eastern West Virginia Regional Airport at around 4:36 p.m. Thursday.

There is a pretty good ground indention at the start of the burned grass where they started sliding.  Wing is on the other side of the road.   fuselage is bent to having the left wing hitting first.  possible stall spin.   Keep the speed up folks.   sad situation for everyone involved. prayers to the family.

 

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

If a 757 captain can stall spin then any of us can - yes keep the speed up.

Cut that little piece of tape and put it on your ASI, clean stall speed x 1.404

[DXB]

Accident aircraft M20A N8354E, a classic wood wing bird:

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/10/mooney-m20a-n8354e-fatal-accident.html

Some info on Mr. Clinton Powers, the pilot:  

https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news/tri_state/west_virginia/good-guy-pilot-passenger-mourned-after-crash/article_2becfe0e-d784-52f1-9e97-5d8f653ad5ac.html

Very sad.  RIP.

[Yetti]

4 hours ago, Nick Pilotte said:

Ugh, there are some high tension power lines right there in that block. 

Missed those.   That is more consistent with the impact and continued forward motion.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Yetti

[Nick Pilotte]

A quote we see all too often when we read about these accidents...... 

Taken from the Herald Mail Media link above, “Powers was "an accomplished, extremely competent airline pilot, flight instructor and flight engineer," Nic Diehl, executive director of the Eastern West Virginia Regional Airport Authority, wrote in a news release Friday.”

Always be watching, please everyone.  My wife’s father died in a stall spin trying to avoid power lines as a crop duster in a similar accident.  Things you can’t even see will kill you, especially this close to the ground. 

[Shadrach]

7 hours ago, kortopates said:

I suspect it wasn't so much a stall spin but collision with the high power lines almost directly above that you can see in the video and that Nick refers to above. Perhap they were maneuvering to the very nearby private airport 61VA. I wondered if it could be an instructional flight but I see the Captain's CFI expired some 35+ years ago, so probably not. But if indeed it was a collision with the power lines, something had them flying very low and the best I could come up with is the very close by private airport. Perhaps the preliminary will tell us. 

Wonder if the power lines have the large orange balls on them like they do out west? I couldn't tell from the satellite view.

I believe the power lines were a factor but can’t make sense of why he’d be low enough to hit them. He was more than a nautical mile from the field (if that was his destination).

[kortopates]

18 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I believe the power lines were a factor but can’t make sense of why he’d be low enough to hit them. He was more than a nautical mile from the field (if that was his destination).

One witness account from the comments section of Kathryn Report -- but one problem with it is that the witness says about 2pm yet the plane crash was reported to be a6 4:36pm which makes you wonder if it was even the same plane.

Robert Bock said...

I seen them doing what appeared to be barrel rolls and engine stalls at approximately 2 PM. I reside in the Happy Creek subdivision of Middleway, Jefferson County, West Virginia.

Friday, October 25, 2019 at 10:54:00 AM EDT

[tigers2007]

Two Golden rules of the internet:
#1. Don’t trust anything in Wikipedia.
#2. Don’t trust anything in the comments section.

In my free time I have been known to embellish and completely desecrate articles in Wikipedia for humor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mooney1]

 

Terrible news! Flew that airplane years ago, it needed work then to say the least 

[Shadrach]

On 10/26/2019 at 2:53 PM, kortopates said:

One witness account from the comments section of Kathryn Report -- but one problem with it is that the witness says about 2pm yet the plane crash was reported to be a6 4:36pm which makes you wonder if it was even the same plane.

Robert Bock said...

I seen them doing what appeared to be barrel rolls and engine stalls at approximately 2 PM. I reside in the Happy Creek subdivision of Middleway, Jefferson County, West Virginia.

Friday, October 25, 2019 at 10:54:00 AM EDT

The crash site is about 30NM from my home drome but it’s  like another country.  I doubt seriously that an ATP was out doing illegal acro in that area when there’s more desolate country nearby. I’m not sure what an “engine stall” looks like form the ground 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Shadrach

[bradp]

On 10/25/2019 at 12:59 PM, Skates97 said:

 

Cut that little piece of tape and put it on your ASI, clean stall speed x 1.404

How does the airspeed tape differ from most everyone’s oattern speed SOP (mine is 100/90/80 MPH for base final short final).  I’m not criticizing, just wondering out loud.   Is the tape just another reminder to not get slow prior to a stabilized approach to land? 

[Andy95W]

The video really describes it well.  It's a bit long, but worth a watch when you have time.

 

[carusoam]

PP thoughts that come to mind...

One part reminder...

Another part clear vision of what the instrument is saying... needle above or below THIS line...

Another part for your right seater...  keep needle above this line until a few feet over the runway... then chop, drop, done...

Interesting...

Reminder... I am not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[Shadrach]

On 10/27/2019 at 12:51 PM, Andy95W said:

The video really describes it well.  It's a bit long, but worth a watch when you have time.

 

Am I the only one that does not think this video is the “epiphany” that the CFI is claiming?  Maneuvering speed  (V_A  ) has a definition. GA pilots don’t “think” it’s a maximum...it is a maximum. I’m not going to define it here because it’s easy to find and we all were taught about maneuvering speed in PPL training. It’s based on design load, not flying in the pattern. If one wants to have a minimum pattern speed, by all means, but it has nothing to do with maneuvering speed. Furthermore, flying delta wing, transport category aircraft is a completely different type of flying. Transport category aircraft have speed brakes, spoilers, lift dump devices, thrust reversers, etc. etc. they are not maneuverable, they are no closer to GA flying than an ocean liner is to a small pleasure craft.

 I guess I’m a curmudgeon or a dinosaur or whatever, but I don’t think stall/recovery training is killing pilots.  Complacency and or sensory overload kills pilots. If you don’t know you’re approaching critical AOA, you don’t know you’re approaching critical AOA. If you don’t know you’re slow, you don’t know you’re slow...I don’t think having an extra piece of tape on the ASI is going to help you if you’re so distracted you’ve lost situational awareness. Has anyone here ever actually been surprised by the stall when practicing stall/recovery? I have not. The horn gives a lot of notice, the plane can be flown with the horn blaring while holding altitude and turning, the plane will buffet gently before breaking giving another cue of what’s in store. What does surprise people? A secondary stall during an over aggressive recovery. Why is it surprising? Because it’s accelerated, it’s almost immediate and it’s caused by an aggressive control input that blows right  through any usable AOA to critical AOA and an aggressive secondary break. 

I don’t think the stall/spin accident scenario is some daft pilot getting slow in the pattern. It’s likely an accelerated event caused by an aggressive control input that gives little to no warning as the aircraft departs controlled flight with stall horn coming to the party to tell you what you already know... 

I think familiarizing yourself with your airplane’s stall characteristics and all of the cues associated with stall so that  a stall can be avoided is a far better strategy than trying to redefine maneuvering speed or putting a little yellow strip of tape on your ASI.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Shadrach

[Skates97]

10 hours ago, bradp said:

How does the airspeed tape differ from most everyone’s oattern speed SOP (mine is 100/90/80 MPH for base final short final).  I’m not criticizing, just wondering out loud.   Is the tape just another reminder to not get slow prior to a stabilized approach to land? 

I see it more as a tool during an emergency situation, flying clean, and staying above stall speed and not getting slow trying to stretch it out. 

For the pattern I don't think it does anything for me, I fly the same 100/90/80 that you do and am so focused on the speeds at each point in the pattern I don't think I'm going to get slow.