Engine Shops

[Seth]

As many of you know insurance is paying for a teardown of my IO-550 due to an issue while taxing through some mud (full write up due in 2020 once my Missile is flying again).  My Missile is currently at Freeway MSC (W00) in Maryland.

I would like some suggestions for where to send the engine for the teardown.  I have to decide if I’m going IRAN or overhaul.

Engine info:  IO-550A

Hours on engine: roughly 2200

Hours SMOH:  roughly 700

Hours STOH:  roughly 600

Bolduc in MN performed my OH in 2011 at purchase.  1 year later, two of the overhauled cylinders cracked.  Bolduc stood behind their work but I didn’t trust the other 4 cylinders so I swapped them all out and we agreed to a very reasonable price.  So it was a Top at 100 hours with new millennium cylinders.

Engine was running great and the issue with mud causing an RPM reduction for about 1/4 of a second and trashed propeller, is precipating this paid for teardown.

I may fully overhaul but the price difference is ranging from about $20,000 to $25,000 depending on the shop.  None I’ve spoken with are willing to give me a flat price discount since they are getting teardown insurance money anyway. Was hoping to work an angle.

As with any 700 hour 8 year engine, my gut is lifters will show some amount of putting so I’m sure I’ll pay for that.  There’s the continental gear that was not done by Bolduc in 2011 that will need to be done.  Anything else not covered by insurance is on me for IRAN.  I’ll decide on overhaul vs IRAN later.

I’ve reached out to numerous shops but have narrowed to three at the moment, but that may change:

Poplar Grove in IL

Columbia in PA

Continental Factory itself

 

Please give engine shop suggestions and any experience with the shops noted.

I plan to make my decision this week.

A big shout out to Alan Fox.  He’s been excellent in helping me through this on numerous fronts.  If you have any Mooney questions anytime or just need some candid advice or suggestions, don’t hesitate to contact Alan.

Tommy and Chris at Freeway have been excellent as well. 

Again, full write up expected in 2020.

 

Thanks,

-Seth

 

 

[MIm20c]

With those hours I’d just Iran it and fly the wings off it. If you want to shake the tear down stigma pony up for a reman. However, if it was me I’d pick a quality shop and just look everything over. 

[Seth]

7 hours ago, MIm20c said:

With those hours I’d just Iran it and fly the wings off it. If you want to shake the tear down stigma pony up for a reman. However, if it was me I’d pick a quality shop and just look everything over. 

I’m leaning that way

[Guitarmaster]

Talk to Poplar Grove Airmotive in Poplar Grove Illinois. C77.
VERY knowledgeable and esteemed engine shop.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[jetdriven]

Far and away the best big Continental engine shop in the country is Powermasters in Tulsa. Call and talk to them.

Youre getting 7-8K of TDI money, apply that towards the overhaul if you do that. You should get all that credit.  If it were mine, I'd have it split open.  Evaluate, if the cam and lifters are good, swap them anyway with NEW, and reassemble. Its a fresh 700-hr IRAN engine with 450hr cylinders. If the lifters are shot, OH the whole thing, it trashes the pistons, oil pump, accesory housing, cam, etc.  My engine is a 650hr SMOH, 208hr since IRAN but the only non-new part is the crank and oil pump gears.

FWIW its worth it to pre-emptively remove the lifters on a Continental every few years and inspect. You can often save the cam and an early engine demise for the cost, its money well spent.

If you run a Blackmax engine dehydrator you wont be worrying about pitted and spalled lifters in the future. is 500$ but much cheaper than an overhaul for a 700-hour engine.

Edited October 15, 2019 by jetdriven

[carusoam]

When my IO550 experienced a ground strike...

it had about 1600 hrs on it.

Enough that a tear down and remount...to have to do it again in a few more years... made less sense...

So I went factory reman with the decision...

It was kind of like throwing away 400+ engine hours... a really tough CB decision...

 

So...

Compare the paid for R&R, and what you lose by tossing away some unused engine hours...

The decision gets much easier as you get closer to TBO...  Who will do the OH?

 

Or...

The decision for tear down and inspection is much easier when you have so few hours on the engine... Who will do the tear down?

As far as timing goes...

Props take months to build...

Factory reman engines are sitting on a shelf and take weeks to complete...

 

Prices for tear down / inspection... 10 amu? (I Don’t recall exactly the numbers...)

Factory reman from Continental... 35 amu? (Available on their website, last I looked...)

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[MIm20c]

14 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Factory reman from Continental... 35 amu? (Available on their website, last I looked...)

Around $46k now. Going up a lot faster than our plane values are...  the top prop prices are also considerably higher now than a short time ago. 

[carusoam]

Thanks for the reminder, MI...

My engine work was done in 2012...

So those prices are a tad aged...

Best regards,

 -a-

[MooneyMitch]

My experience with my former Ovation IO-550G overhaul, and my opinion...... Powernaster in Tulsa is THE place, should you decide to OH.

My returned engine was beautiful and performed perfectly!

PM went to the additional effort of disassembling my new TCM cylinders, checking correct valve guide fitment, correct valve seating, etc.

I suspect N211MJ is still running quite strong, but you can always enquire.

I do hope this helps you.

 

[67 m20F chump]

Seth,

I met you at Oshkosh.  I’m Chucks tall friend.  I had Carlus Gann overhaul the engine on the Baron.  He will tell you what it costs upfront and how much more it will be if your parts are not useable.  He was $28500 for O/H to new limits with new CMI cylinders.  
 

Gann Aviation 

[jwilcoxon78]

4 hours ago, 67 m20F chump said:

Seth,

I met you at Oshkosh.  I’m Chucks tall friend.  I had Carlus Gann overhaul the engine on the Baron.  He will tell you what it costs upfront and how much more it will be if your parts are not useable.  He was $28500 for O/H to new limits with new CMI cylinders.  
 

Gann Aviation 

 

Carlus did my IO360 a few years ago now and a little over 300 hours ago.  Running great on about 1qt of oil/10hours.

Edited October 15, 2019 by jwilcoxon78

[CaptRJM]

You might want to check out Triad in Burlington, NC. Very respected. They do a lot of work for The Fighter Factory in Virginia Beach. Also have prop shop at same location. They resealed a T6 prop while I waited a few years ago.

[Bob_Belville]

10 hours ago, CaptRJM said:

You might want to check out Triad in Burlington, NC. Very respected. They do a lot of work for The Fighter Factory in Virginia Beach. Also have prop shop at same location. They resealed a T6 prop while I waited a few years ago.

+1 for Triad. Solid, experienced engine shop that stands behind their work. I have about 500 hours on the IO360 they “overhauled” and I’m very satisfied. @AGL Aviation sends them a lot of work.


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[Bravoman]

1 hour ago, jwilcoxon78 said:

Carlus did my IO360 a few years ago now and a little over 300 hours ago.  Running great on about 1qt of oil/hour.

 Unless that was a typo, 1 quart of oil per hour is pretty significant consumption. 

[Bravoman]

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if you considered Penn Yan or Zephyr? I have a Penn Yan overhaul on my Saratoga that was done  for the previous owner back in 2001, and the thing runs like a top after 1700 hrs. I know from when I was looking at potentially overhauling the engine in my bravo ( went with a factory reman for a number of reasons that were unique to my situation) that  Penn Yan has a better than most warranty which is three years versus two. I know numerous people that have had excellent experiences with Zephyr, and as I write this I cannot think of any folks that I know that had work done by Zephyr that had a bad experience. I understand they really stand behind their work no matter what.

[MooneyMitch]

My opinion only.......consider beyond cost of overhaul...... know and fully understand what’s included.

If possible, obtain customer list from a shop you’re considering, and contact them.  Word of mouth is extremely valuable !

Aircraft type forums (MS) are also a fine source for obtaining information on engine OH shops. At the time of my 550 OH, Beechtalk forum was an excellent source for the big bore Continental.

Some shops are proficient and skilled in Lycoming, while others are better skilled in Continental.  It is prudent to know this.

During research, create a list with pros and cons with specific information acquired, along with cost.

 

[Oldguy]

3 minutes ago, Bravoman said:

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if you considered Penn Yan or Zephyr? I have a Penn Yan overhaul on my Saratoga that was done  for the previous owner back in 2001, and the thing runs like a top after 1700 hrs. I know from when I was looking at potentially overhauling the engine in my bravo ( went with a factory reman for a number of reasons that were unique to my situation) that  Penn Yan has a better than most warranty which is three years versus two. I know numerous people that have had excellent experiences with Zephyr, and as I write this I cannot think of any folks that I know that had work done by Zephyr that had a bad experience. I understand they really stand behind their work no matter what.

Along these same lines, I believe there have been several posts on here talking about the great experience and product they got from Jewell.

[Andy95W]

6 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Along these same lines, I believe there have been several posts on here talking about the great experience and product they got from Jewell.

Yes, but many folks don't believe they're getting a good quality product unless they pay top dollar.  Some think that only the factory knows how to overhaul their engines.

The scope, details, and instructions for an engine overhaul are all dictated by the manufacturer. Any shop that has a repair station certificate or that does enough overhauls to warrant oversight by the FAA will be following the manufacturer's instructions to the letter.  Extras such as "blue printing" or "port and polishing" or stuff like that might be shop dependent. 

I would ask your installer who they recommend.  They'll know which engine shops are decent, responsive, and have good customer service.  They'll also know how to keep shipping costs under control because they've worked with them before.

[jwilcoxon78]

1 hour ago, Bravoman said:

 Unless that was a typo, 1 quart of oil per hour is pretty significant consumption. 

Thanks for the catch.  Should read 1qt/10hrs.

[Bolter]

22 hours ago, Seth said:

I’ve reached out to numerous shops but have narrowed to three at the moment, but that may change:

Poplar Grove in IL

Columbia in PA

Continental Factory itself

Please give engine shop suggestions and any experience with the shops noted. 

I had the chance to tour the Poplar Grove shop and meet the owners and several technicians on the line when I overnighted at their airport enroute to OSH a few years ago.  I have NOT had any work done there, but I was impressed with the staff's attitude, equipment, and facility operation/quality control.  

[Seth]

20 hours ago, Guitarmaster said:

Talk to Poplar Grove Airmotive in Poplar Grove Illinois. C77.
VERY knowledgeable and esteemed engine shop.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

I have.  They are currently one of my finalists.

[MarkD34M]

I just had my IO550G overhauled by Poplar with new nickel cylinders.  Short story = engine is running well after 35 hours and they did a nice job but had some significant delays. I am happy to share my experience if you'd like to PM me.

[Danb]

Seth a couple friends of my had Victor do their overhaul and were quite pleased and impressed, that’s been over ten years ago so I don’t know if they are still a quality shop, I remember they were pricey 

[bill98]

On 10/14/2019 at 12:32 PM, Seth said:

As many of you know insurance is paying for a teardown of my IO-550 due to an issue while taxing through some mud (full write up due in 2020 once my Missile is flying again).  My Missile is currently at Freeway MSC (W00) in Maryland.

I would like some suggestions for where to send the engine for the teardown.  I have to decide if I’m going IRAN or overhaul.

Engine info:  IO-550A

Hours on engine: roughly 2200

Hours SMOH:  roughly 700

Hours STOH:  roughly 600

Bolduc in MN performed my OH in 2011 at purchase.  1 year later, two of the overhauled cylinders cracked.  Bolduc stood behind their work but I didn’t trust the other 4 cylinders so I swapped them all out and we agreed to a very reasonable price.  So it was a Top at 100 hours with new millennium cylinders.

Engine was running great and the issue with mud causing an RPM reduction for about 1/4 of a second and trashed propeller, is precipating this paid for teardown.

I may fully overhaul but the price difference is ranging from about $20,000 to $25,000 depending on the shop.  None I’ve spoken with are willing to give me a flat price discount since they are getting teardown insurance money anyway. Was hoping to work an angle.

As with any 700 hour 8 year engine, my gut is lifters will show some amount of putting so I’m sure I’ll pay for that.  There’s the continental gear that was not done by Bolduc in 2011 that will need to be done.  Anything else not covered by insurance is on me for IRAN.  I’ll decide on overhaul vs IRAN later.

I’ve reached out to numerous shops but have narrowed to three at the moment, but that may change:

Poplar Grove in IL

Columbia in PA

Continental Factory itself

 

Please give engine shop suggestions and any experience with the shops noted.

I plan to make my decision this week.

A big shout out to Alan Fox.  He’s been excellent in helping me through this on numerous fronts.  If you have any Mooney questions anytime or just need some candid advice or suggestions, don’t hesitate to contact Alan.

Tommy and Chris at Freeway have been excellent as well. 

Again, full write up expected in 2020.

 

Thanks,

-Seth

 

 

Mena Aircraft Engines - Mena Arkansas

[DonMuncy]

38 minutes ago, bill98 said:

Mena Aircraft Engines - Mena Arkansas

+1