Should I buy a Mooney (for business travel)?

[Tater]

So I have a long question and would love input on any parts of it. I doubt this is a new question but I've looked around at previous posts and haven't found direct answers to what I'm looking for.

Background Info

I've been looking at purchasing a plane for business use but I have zero experience with flying small planes. I own a small business, do all of the sales work, currently spend about 30 hours a month on the freeway plus some regional commercial flights, and as my company continues to grow I continue to spend more time on the road.

Most of my customers are currently 100 to 300 miles away but that range will continue to grow up to about 500 miles. I'm out West and 75% of my customer sites are not a direct flight on a commercial route.

I've crunched a bunch of numbers and it looks to me like flying these destinations in an M20C would save quite a bit of time and would be well worth the cost. But since I have no real experience with small planes, I really don't know how accurate my numbers are.

I'm really looking at whether this makes good business sense or not. I get that flying is fun and that a plane would be a really fun toy but I'm trying to separate that out and look at the practical part of it.

Actual Questions

1. Will I actually save time - door to door including: pre-flight, getting into a rental car, etc. - flying vs. driving routes that are 100 to 300 miles away. My office is 5 minutes from my local field, most of my customers are within 15 minutes of an airport.

2. Flying about 4 hours a week, is $160/hr a reasonable number for an all in cost to operate an M20C (including interest on a $45,000 loan, hanger costs, engine reserves, etc., etc.

3. If I go ahead with purchasing a plane I plan to get both PPL and IR as soon as I can, within 6 months or less. How terrible an idea is it to buy an Mooney and do all of my training in it instead of renting (172s are the only local option) or buying a Cessna 150 and selling it a few months later after PPL is complete?

4. What else should a clueless newbie be considering that a clueless newbie wouldn't know to consider?

[gsengle]

Ownership of especially a complex airplane isn't that much cheaper than renting a trainer, and your training will take longer as well which has a cost. Many will recommend getting your private in a rental and beat up on the trainer while you learn. This way you'll make sure you're committed and capable before buying!

Getting to the point where you have your instrument rating is a lot of work! Make sure you can commit the time. Just some initial thoughts...


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[Browncbr1]

my general thought is that if travel can be made in 3 hours or less by car, then I won't save any time flying unless there turns out to be heavy traffic for some reason.  I have heard that living in So Cal is different due to the heavy traffic.  I am also 20 minutes from my field.  

That said, I still choose to fly because it is enjoyable.

because flying is a luxury and it makes no economic sense, I never recommend taking on a loan for a plane.  I believe loans are for necessities only, but that's just me.

 

you won't be able to make flights whenever you want year around.  Weather, particularly ice, will have you grounded at times.

I might be wrong, but I don't think 6 months is enough time to get a PPL and IR.. If it is, it is probably too rushed...  

[RobertGary1]

Ive taught students in the Mooney so you can do it. The biggest thing to consider is that as a new private pilot your launch rate may be somewhat low. You'll want to ease into trips. Most pilots start out spending more time flying locally.  If you're prepared for the likelyhood that you'll buy the plane but still need to drive half the time you may be ok. 

Make sure you get an experienced Mooney instructor Legaly any cfi can do it and many will  but it's not advisable  

-Robert

Edited March 24, 2017 by RobertGary1

[gsxrpilot]

It's pretty rare that flying small planes makes financial sense... but it can certainly improve the quality of life.  I'd recommend that you start taking lessons. Get your medical first and then get going on lessons. Get through your first solo and then reevaluate at that time. Do you actually like flying? Then get through your solo cross country flights, and reevaluate again. Do you mind spending an hour or two in the small cockpit wearing a headset, out of range of your cell phone? For most of us on this forum, the answers are YES, YES, and I can't get enough of it! But we're probably in the minority.

If you love it, then check back in and we'll help you find the M20C you're looking for. And the M20C is probably the most cost effective way to get from A to B in a private airplane.

[Raptor05121]

Welcome. As a 25-year old 200-hour M20D/C owner, I'll chime in with my worthless $0.02:

1.) Depends on the distance and availability on transportation, as well as weather. IFR ticket and a capable IFR airplane will greatly increase your dispatch reliability. 300 miles you will see a savings in time. At 100 miles, I'd argue door to door, it would be close, with airplanes burning twice the gas. Unless you can convince them to meet you at the airport, etc. But like I said, plenty of factors.

2.) Yes, $140 is very reasonable, considering a 45k hull value on a decently- equipped M20C

3.) Its not THE best idea, but can be done. Most will attest that the first 20 landings are ROUGH and Cessnas are built to handle it. With Mooneys, you risk wear and tear. A good pro/con would be log your first 10 hours or so in a rental, and then finalize purchase and finish in the Mooney.

4.) It seems like for someone with no aviation background, you've done a lot of research as I'm seeing notes that dictate a lot of good background research, so you're off to a good start. Keep it up and maybe go for an intro flight at your local school. Make sure this is what you want to do. While you cannot write-off a PPL directly on taxes, you could possibly write-off the IFR ticket and part of the airplane. Consult your local CPA

[mooniac15u]

Do you have flexibility in your travel/meeting schedule?  Having a rigid schedule with no alternative travel method is not compatible with general aviation.  Many pilots have lost their lives because they were in a hurry to get somewhere and launched into poor conditions.  An instrument rating will help a lot but there are still times when the right decision is not to go.

[N201MKTurbo]

It sounds like you are thinking right.

I commuted between Chandler and Tucson AZ for 20 years. For that trip (100 miles) it was a wash as far as time was concerned.

Renting a car can sometimes eat more time than you would think and sometimes it goes super smooth. I have had it take over an hour to get my butt in a car and I have had it waiting with a red carpet at my parking spot.

You will find that the littlest things can take more time than you would imagine, like opening and closing the hangar and buying fuel.

The size of your missions sounds Perfect for a Mooney. I would go with at least a mid sized Mooney. At some point you are going to want to take your family or friends somewhere.

[Mooneymite]

Let me give my opinion on your first question:   Is a Mooney appropriate for business use?

As much as I love my Mooney and would encourage you to buy one and learn to fly it, a Mooney is not the "time machine" that a business jet is.  Mooneys are not capable of getting you to those business appointments with a high degree of reliability.  They just aren't equipped for real "all weather" flying.

Secondly, getting to an airport near your business meetings is not the same thing as landing where you need to be.  You will learn the vagaries of renting cars at small airports.

If you really love to fly, you will find a way, but from a pragmatic standpoint, do what most business people do:  drive, or use the airlines/rental cars.  Safer, cheaper and often faster.

[Yetti]

Sam Walton used to fly from store to store and have the walmart pep rallys

One thing I have seen people do is buy a plane. Find a flight instructor, then as you are going to another town bring along the flight instructor and learn as you go.  Lots of barter situations abound in this arrangement.

North East people don't understanding "out west" and that popping over to another town is a 6 hour round trip.

My wife prefers that I fly than drive. Less crazies in the sky.

Flexibility is the key to making it work.

El Paso is closer to California than to Houston.

[gsengle]

I bet if Sam Walton was late for a meeting, no one would give him s**t...


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[Yetti]

If you have regular towns, you could leave a company car at those airports.

[carusoam]

It all starts by renting a plane.

I used a C152 to run a few tests to see customers.

The questions that come up are by the dozens.  

You can't imagine how good the tool can be.

You can't imagine the details involved.

 

Problems I've had.  

- Slow to depart one day because a brake leak.  

- stuck overnight because of a mag problem.

- late at the other end because of taxi availability.

 

I used to sell machinery.  Flying a plane provides for a great conversation to build new relationships.

I gave a ride to a customer once.  A couple years Later he offered me a job where I worked for a decade...

 

its only a tool.  But, it can be very powerful.

Prior to having a PPL, you can get your flight instructor to fly you around.

then rent.

then own.

then acquire tremendous skills like the instrument rating.

 

We have an MSer here that is discussing his next business plane to get his team to customer locations...

It is a lot of work done over years of time.

just remember, the years are going by whether you acquire the skills or the plane....

Best regards,

-a-

[Hector]

I think you picked the right plane from a purely business sense. A M20C is inexpensive to buy and operate and is fast enough for your trips. Considering that you are 5 minutes from the airport anything over 150 miles you will save time. I'm also considering that you are expanding to 500 miles and a C model will work great for that. Personally, I would get through the first 20 hours in a Cessna. You are going to make some terrible landings at the start and I wouldn't want to do that in my plane. Abuse the rental for 20 hours then get the Mooney and an instructor familiar with Mooneys. I think you are going to find that flying your own plane is highly addictive


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[carusoam]

Get some Uber experience.  This can greatly help when you land at the other end...

unless your customers are all at airports...

Best regards,

-a-

[KSMooniac]

I think you're reasonable in your approach. It sounds like a Mooney could be a very useful tool for your business, and if weather is bad or something breaks on the plane then you revert back to driving like you do now.

I'd rent for your PPL while researching and maybe purchasing a Mooney. Fly some VFR trips in the Mooney, and then start instrument training in it. You will likely spend the first year fixing things and maybe upgrading before you have the skills and reliability to really use it for business.

It will likely save time for any trip over 150 miles, and very often allow you to get home in the same day and avoid a hotel room, which certainly is a nice thing.

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[Oldguy]

1. If done right, yes. That means getting the rental car ahead of time if you need one, making sure you have more than enough fuel, and doing a thorough pre-flight. You say your customers are within 15 minutes of an airport - is that GA or commercial? They might be 15 minutes from LAX, but that probably won't help you.

2. The $$ figure looks good, but if you are currently spending 30 hours a week traveling, will you really cut it down to only 4 by flying? You might find costs are slightly lower than your estimate if you end up logging more hours.

3. Some excellent advice above - get the first few hard landings in a rental. You can go ahead and buy an airplane anytime you want, but abuse the rental Cessna before you abuse your Mooney.

4. As someone suggested earlier, learn to resolve yourself to missing some meetings or being late due to weather, breakdowns, or other situations. If you have someplace you absolutely must be at a specific time and date, consider something other than flying yourself. If you are unwilling to do that, reconsider using a plane for business.

4(a). Not always important, but consider if you will use the Mooney for anything other than business. Carrying the family/pets/camping gear/et cetera might change the model of plane you select.

4(b). Talk with your insurance agent (business, life, airplane) about your plans. There may be "gotchas" hiding in your current policies.

4(c). Get your medical done before proceeding. Nothing like spending multiple AMU (aircraft monetary units) only to have something keep you from being able to fly.

Just a few thoughts on your questions.

[RLCarter]

The national avg for ppl is 60hrs (40 required), IR can be done in the required 40. PPL took me a year due to work, I would go take an introductory flight and see how that goes. Two other things come to mind, are there mountains between you and your customers?  Also check with your accountant to see what can be written off. Other than than get your ticket and enjoy flying, great way to forget about long hours of work

[gsengle]

The national avg for ppl is 60hrs (40 required), IR can be done in the required 40. PPL took me a year due to work, I would go take an introductory flight and see how that goes. Two other things come to mind, are there mountains between you and your customers?  Also check with your accountant to see what can be written off. Other than than get your ticket and enjoy flying, great way to forget about long hours of work

Let's put that in context, a typical lesson gets you about 1 hour flight time in the logbook. If you work, it's hard to do more than a couple of lessons a week.... so a hundred hours (minimum) of flight training could easily take a year or more....


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[ArtVandelay]

If traveling from big city to another it's not going to save much time, if traveling where you always have to stop at a hub, then it can save time unless the distance is too long for a single flight.
It won't save you money, just time and more convenient.
You'll want a FIKI capable plane if you "have to" fly and can't wait for good weather, sometimes weather is so bad you'll still have to go commercial.
Definitely need the IR.
If you plan on working 8 hour days and flying afterwards, that might not be a good idea, depending on your stamina. Flying tired can lead to making mistakes.
The advantages to flying yourself:
No schedule
No TSA, no baggage limits or restrictions
Can takeoff and land more convenient airports
Doesn't cost more to take an extra passenger.

[neilpilot]

After I retired the first time in 2015, I did some consulting as a chemical facility auditor. As an example, for the last audit the Mooney allowed me to shave 1-2 days off of what would otherwise been a 5 day 3-facility assignment.  There were no practical commercial air options.

My client saved money. I billed out-of-pocket for Mooney expenses, 2 rental cars for a total of 3 days. If I had driven, the auto mileage and additional 2 days hotel and meals would have exceeded those expenses. They also saved, and I lost, since I billed them for 12 hours less time. But I did get to fly.

Until you gain experience and an IR, it's still only marginally practical.

i may resume auditing after I re-retire in a week.

[N201MKTurbo]

You say you are out west. Where exactly?

There are places out west (Arizona) where weather cancelations are rare. And an instrument rating won't help that much unless you have FIKI. Commuting to Tucson, I had to cancel about 1 in 100 flights. If I had to go IFR I would drive. The trip was 28 min flying time VFR. the fastest I ever made it IFR was 45 min. so it cost more and took longer than driving.

[TTaylor]

Tater,

Please update you profile to include a location, that would help us to give better recommendations.

Depending on where you are in the west i might recommend an E or F over the C. Overall costs would not change much.  

As others have said.  I would do the first 15 to 20 hours in a Cessna or other trainer.  They are built for the early training abuse.  try to find an instructor that is familiar with Mooney's.

The plane will never make economic sense in a traditional way but your ability to get places quicker and save you time in the long run is often an intangible benefit.  You may be able to both expand your territory and number of clients you can reach in person. In addition, flying over areas of highway traffic congestion may be beneficial to your mental health. 

Tim

 

 

[Chocks]

My plane doesnt often save me money.  It DOES however save the one thing that money cannot buy....TIME.   That makes it worth its weight in gold to me. 

Amen!


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[milotron]

It is all about local geography. I often use my Mooney for work travel as I live on an island ( a big island, but an island nonetheless..) and about half of my travel requires an expensive ferry ride for 2 hours, plus waiting. I can fly there in 15 minutes.

Also, most other destinations are smaller towns and commercial flights typically need at least one stopover, thus adding more time, pain/suffering. Factor in the security dance and Mooney is a no-brainer. Plus being able to operate on YOUR schedule is priceless.

Like Hyett6420 said, the Mooney is a time machine.