Stigma Mooneys are small

[Danb]

I was at Detroit City airport yesterday, a couple guys were admiring my Mooney, he loved the plane, asked some questions then said jeez I'd really like to get a Mooney for all the obvious reasons but he was put off by how small they are and wondered if he would be comfy. I said jump in sit at the pilots seat, he couldn't believe the comfort and room. Why are there still so many naysayers believing we have small uncomfortable planes?

Take a pilot in another brand for a ride, I'm always amazed how quickly they change there mind. One guy I know sold his Piper and got himself a '77 J.

Any suggestions to get some converts?

[Marauder]

I think the only way is to have people get and see it for themselves. Our Mooneys sit low and give the impression of being small. I think even Mooney realized that and when you saw the new Mooneys at Oshkosh, they had these big blocks under the wheels to give them a taller and level stance.

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[Yetti]

Al Mooney was 6' 1".  I am 6' 9".  There might be a couple of more holes in the seat rail but I fit just fine.

[sailon]

I thought they looked small too, until I pushed a Mooney into my hangar where I kept my old Arrow.  Significantly larger, and at 6'3" much more comfortable than the Piper.  Still have controllers talk about my little airplane tho.

[steingar]

Tried to take my old airplane partner for a flight.  Couldn't even get a seat belt around him, big boy.  For tall pilots Mooneys are fine, my other buddy said mine has more head room than our old Cherokee.  But for some plus-sized pilots Mooneys suck, at least vintage ones like mine (though I feel the newer ones suffer in the same regard).  Might apply to those who are broad in the beam but not necessarily rotund.

Fine by me.  The obese can fly something else.  My Mooney is still the only airplane I've ever flown where I can see one rat nose.  Nothing better for the pipsqueak crowd.

[Browncbr1]

it's ok with just one person in the front but when i have someone in the copilot seat who is, say 180lbs or more, we hit elbows and i have to tell them to keep clear of the Jbar and flap pump...   a small price to pay for the speed in my opinion...  

[flyboy0681]

I feel so inadequate here at 5' 4" 130lbs.

[klystron]

Oh man, I occasionally take people flying in a Remos-GX. I normally get the airplane from Santa Fe and pick people up in Los Alamos. They step out of the terminal building and are like "we're going flying in that!". On the big cross country I did from KSAF to KHYI and back with a friend of mine everyone on the ramp who saw the airplane was like "holy crap that ting is small". 

 

Although, I do think that the cabin width on the Remos is larger than the mooney. It's actually fairly comfortable to ride in.

[ArtVandelay]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

Al Mooney was 6' 1".  I am 6' 9".  There might be a couple of more holes in the seat rail but I fit just fine.

What's your jacket size?  Have you ever had a large copilot?   

Mooneys are only 43.5" wide, some complain they rub shoulders... I found the trick is to stagger the seat positions.

[Yetti]

I could not get the door to close on the Remos.   Knee was sticking out.   My dad at 6' 1" who may have had one too many snacks and knees are bad has a hard time rolling out onto the wing.  I usually have to give him a shove.  I think we decided that back out onto the wing spin around, crab crawl down the wing, I leave the flaps in full flap down, puts feet on ground and stands up.

My visibility is way better in a Mooney than with my head stuck up in the top of a 172.  We found that I could probably fly a T28 Trojan

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Yetti

[Yetti]

Just now, teejayevans said:

What's your jacket size?  Have you ever had a large copilot?   

Mooneys are only 43.5" wide, some complain they rub shoulders... I found the trick is to stagger the seat positions.

Yep with my dad he is forward and I am 2 holes (3 inches) further back than his seat goes.   He also needs a pillow under him.

Mine is electric so only the trim is a bit of shoving.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Yetti

[gsxrpilot]

I'm 5'10" and 240... no fat jokes please ;-)  I often fly with my buddy, Shane who is almost my size and taller. We fit just fine and have done some long cross countries. Google "Mooney cabin width"  Width is where it's needed, the other planes all have more headroom, and you sit up straight. If you don't mind the low seating, the Mooney is the most spacious of those below.  

The Cessna 182, PA28 and Bonanzas have 42 inch/107 cm cabin widths.
The Cessna 206/210 has 43 inches/109 cm.
The Mooney cabin is 43.5 inches/110 cm wide.

This doesn't apply to back seat passengers.  But then, back seaters are flying for free. And most importantly, I'm the owner, so I don't sit in the back seat!

[eman1200]

I watched a youtube vid recently of 2 FAA-sized (or less) dudes in a modern mooney and they looked jam packed in there, it was a little discouraging.  however, when I flew with DrBill in his E I felt like we had plenty of room up front.

[Bartman]

I have not had any significant complaints regarding the fit inside the copilot seat, not even with my brother who was 225lbs at the time. I have flown 4 adults, but could only travel 2 hour legs and not much more than a toothbrush, swim trunks, and a T-shirt. But you can travel a long way in 2 hours, and have a lot of fun even with restricted baggage. 

However, I have come to realize it is not necessarily the size of the individual, but rather getting in and out of the Mooney requires a certain level of physical fitness. For example on egress, I instruct right seat passengers to move the seat back, grab the windshield roll cage with the the left hand, door frame or pull ring with the right, stand up and put the back against the rear of the door frame, reposition hands and feet, and finally in one motion stand all they way up while swinging the right foot onto the wing walk. At no time are they allowed to touch the door. Most who have at least minimum fitness level hav no problem.

I have watched my instructors strength deteriorate with age, and although 10 years ago he had no problem, now he does. Getting in and out of the Mooney requires physical strength in the hands, arms, trunk and core, as well as the legs which is just not required to that degree in the Brand C and P which I have flown. 

[gsxrpilot]

There's no question that Brand C airplanes are better than Mooney's in every way...

 

Except when flying...

[TheTurtle]

Im 6'2" and just sat in the back seat of my 67 F this weekend.  Could actually sit fairly comfortably.

[Vance Harral]

As everyone notes, cabin width, length, and height numbers are comparable or better to the competition.  But there are some things that legitimately make the cabin feel smaller to a lot of people.

First, the Mooney fuselage is rounded at the top, unlike the square roof of Brand C and the less-rounded roof of other brands.  This gives at least the feel and in some cases the actual reality of impingement on the shoulders and heads of tall guys, despite cabin width at the hips and elbows being comparable to the competition.

Second, the seating is low with your legs stretched out further, whereas other brands tend to have higher seats and a more upright seating position.  Some people really like the "sports car" seating design in the Mooney, but not everyone.  I'd be 100% OK with it if it weren't for the way my calf and knee rub on the nose wheel well, which is a minor annoyance I don't get in other airplanes.

Finally, and IMO most significant, with the seat positioned to reach the rudder pedals, the instrument panel is closer to you than other brands.  I like the way this makes even instruments on the far side of the panel easily visible.  But I can understand why a close instrument panel feels "cramped" to some, especially if they're the type to worry about banging their head on the panel in an accident.

Whether you're affected by any of the above or not, I think we can agree cabin comfort is a personal thing that varies a lot among individuals.  People who have only heard about "cramped" Mooneys without sitting in them are often pleasantly surprised, but complaints from people who've actually climbed in and made their own judgment shouldn't be dismissed.

[flyboy0681]

I guess the trade off is the Rockwell Commander. Lots of interior space which comes at the expense of speed and efficiency.

I've always loved the look of that plane.

[Bob_Belville]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

I think the only way is to have people get and see it for themselves. Our Mooneys sit low and give the impression of being small. I think even Mooney realized that and when you saw the new Mooneys at Oshkosh, they had these big blocks under the wheels to give them a taller and level stance.

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I did not ask but i assumed that the 8"(?) platforms under the mains on the show planes @ KOSH was to mask the tail dragger look of the long body Mooneys. The nose wheel was not raised which made the plane level.

[N201MKTurbo]

I spent 24 hours in the last month flying a Seneca II. 

It made me really love my Mooney even more! 

That was the most horrible excuse for an airplane I've ever flown.

But, I'm a multi ATP now...

and im really current on instruments.

Edited August 5, 2016 by N201MKTurbo

[Andy95W]

Congratulations!

Coolest thing to me is that the word "Instrument" isn't on your license anymore.

[Oldguy]

The most fun with people was when the full family of four of us took the Mooney to the beach for lunch. Wife, me, son and daughter all pile out of it, and the lineman just about drops his jaw. Wife is a petite 5'5", daughter 5'10, I'm 6'5" and son is Yetti-sized at 6'8". I'm sure he was thinking "flying clown car" or something similar. But even with fuel at tabs we had plenty of load left.

Anyone who gets into the plane is surprised at the space and comfort when seated. I compare it to sitting in a sports car versus sitting in a Chevy truck (like other "C" vehicles). Ingress and egress may not be wonderful, but you probably spend less than 30 seconds getting in and out.

[Yetti]

The F back seat is one of the most comfortable seats I have been in.  With the recline I have almost taken naps while working.  My hanger neighbor said with a Texas Accent "It always looks like a clown car when you get out of that thing"

[ArtVandelay]

Congratulations!

Coolest thing to me is that the word "Instrument" isn't on your license anymore.

What do you mean? Mine says single engine land and instrument airplane...issued in 2013.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Bartman said:

 

However, I have come to realize it is not necessarily the size of the individual, but rather getting in and out of the Mooney requires a certain level of physical fitness. For example on egress, I instruct right seat passengers to move the seat back, grab the windshield roll cage with the the left hand, door frame or pull ring with the right, stand up and put the back against the rear of the door frame, reposition hands and feet, and finally in one motion stand all they way up while swinging the right foot onto the wing walk. At no time are they allowed to touch the door. Most who have at least minimum fitness level hav no problem.

I usually tell people to roll out onto the wing in their knees, and hold on to the rear doorframe to stand up. Seems to work well.

Loading the back seat of a short body is a challenge, though. The right seater gets in last, with the seat slid forward to make room for back seat pax legs . . . Usually all that goes back there is my flight bag, sometimes a suitcase and the dog when we all go together. He's little, loading him isn't a problem. (Toy poodle, 9 lbs. of wagging tail and tongue.)