Opinions wanted! CGR-30 P & C versus EDM 900

[RDuplechin]

Good Morning.  Please see the picture below.  I’m planning a panel upgrade on my 20E and the engine monitor is as good a start as any.  I have not flown with EDM  or EI units before so I am a clean slate looking for opinions from those of you who have.  Please give me pros/cons of my two possibilities.  I could replace my existing tach and MP gauges with a CGR-30 P and C replacing all engine instruments.  Removing the existing 6 cluster would leave room for an autopilot later. That would be a really clean swap.   Or, I could put an EDM 900 vertically in the tach spot, plug the MP hole, and still use the existing engine instrument 6 cluster square area for an autopilot later.   The iPad mini is staying where it is pictured.  Thanks.

[gsxrpilot]

You probably can't go wrong with either. I have the EDM900 and love it. But I might have gone with the CGR set if they were comparable on price. EI has a reputation for excellent customer service which is important.

[bob865]

I put in the CGR-30 set and love it!  What I liked most was how cleanly it fit into my panel because it fits into existing mounting holes.  That was probably my #1 deciding factor.  I found the cost delta between the CGR and others was negligible due to rebates, but they run the rebates a good bit.  Their service was great helping us getting it up and running because we had a lot of trouble getting it working with the surefly ignition we also installed at the same time.

[RDuplechin]

Yeah, I like how cleanly the CGR set looks. 

[squeaky.stow]

If I was starting from scratch, I think the thing that would tip the scales towards EI is the fact that all the sensors run to a data converter on the firewall and then just two wires go to the instrument. That hugely simplifies the panel work. 
On the JPI, all of the sensor leads have to go into the back of the monitor which is a lot of work behind your panel. That and the ability to put the CG30 in existing holes makes for a slick installation. I think the GI275 has a similar data converter so it might be worth a look.

[Stan]

I went with the CGR30P, used sensors from a Insight G-3.

Installed two years ago with no problems, any questions during installation were answered promptly, good customer support

.

[Ragsf15e]

Another option is a Garmin gi-275 or g3x with eis.  If you’re planning other Garmin stuff, their integration is really nice.  They have also started Bluetooth download for your engine data which is awesome.

I have a jpi930 and it’s nice but if I was starting from scratch and using mostly Garmin, I would use their eis.

[J0nathan225]

Depending on the panel work the 900 looks very clean too. 

[carusoam]

If the JPI ever gets an update... that would be the goto instrument...

Big G is coming on strong with their new EIS... a big step ahead from where they have been previously...  all of the flight data and engine info stored, and downloadable...

EI has great products, and services.... and a presence here on MS, answers as quick as a few keystrokes to type out an invite... 

Insight has some great products too... some too long to fit in the Long Body’s IP...  check your dimensions closely...

EI’s CGR pair is super nice for fitting in the existing instrument holes...  and counts as two color screens if you are trying to win the color screen count challenge...

PP summary only... 

Best regards,

-a-

[OR75]

On 4/2/2021 at 10:27 AM, squeaky.stow said:

If I was starting from scratch, I think the thing that would tip the scales towards EI is the fact that all the sensors run to a data converter on the firewall and then just two wires go to the instrument. That hugely simplifies the panel work. 
On the JPI, all of the sensor leads have to go into the back of the monitor which is a lot of work behind your panel. That and the ability to put the CG30 in existing holes makes for a slick installation. I think the GI275 has a similar data converter so it might be worth a look.

I believe the converter has to be inside the firewall ( sort of like those voltage regulator that is a pain to get to. Or am i wrong ? Where did you install it ?  

[squeaky.stow]

11 minutes ago, OR75 said:

Where did you install it ?  

I didn’t. I have a JPI EDM830, so I may be completely wrong. I was referring to the claims on the EI website.

https://www.iflyei.com/product/cgr-30p-premium/

 

• Engine Data Converter (EDC) accepts all inputs. Only 2 wires run to the back of the instrument.

If this means you can run everything to a box on the firewall and only fish two wires for the instrument, then it would be a significant reduction of work behind the instrument panel. If the box itself has to be behind the panel, I am not sure I understand what the advantage is over a JPI monitor.

Somebody here who has done the installation can probably comment on where the box has to go. Maybe @bob865 or @Stan?

[McMooney]

i'm kinda in the same boat, trying to decide between efis and engine mon at the moment.

my opinion, I'd go with a garmin-275 b4 the cgr-30.   

last i checked, i'd need the cgr-30p and cgr-30c to replace all instruments where as one gi275 would do.

 

[OR75]

10 minutes ago, squeaky.stow said:

I didn’t. I have a JPI EDM830, so I may be completely wrong. I was referring to the claims on the EI website.

https://www.iflyei.com/product/cgr-30p-premium/

 

• Engine Data Converter (EDC) accepts all inputs. Only 2 wires run to the back of the instrument.

If this means you can run everything to a box on the firewall and only fish two wires for the instrument, then it would be a significant reduction of work behind the instrument panel. If the box itself has to be behind the panel, I am not sure I understand what the advantage is over a JPI monitor.

Somebody here who has done the installation can probably comment on where the box has to go. Maybe @bob865 or @Stan?

from the install manual : 

‘’The EDC should be installed on the inside of the cockpit or in an instrument bay with the connectors pointing down.’’

i am not sure about other planes ...  but in a Mooney, the inside of the firewall is a total PITA to get to. Had rather pull a full bundled set of wires all the way to the back of a instrument hole. 
 

of course should is different than must ... 

 

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

14 minutes ago, McMooney said:

i'm kinda in the same boat, trying to decide between efis and engine mon at the moment.

my opinion, I'd go with a garmin-275 b4 the cgr-30.   

last i checked, i'd need the cgr-30p and cgr-30c to replace all instruments where as one gi275 would do.

 

You are correct. To replace all factory gauges, you'll need both the CGR-30P and 30C. If fitting into an existing panel, it's a good option that takes two holes.

The EDM900 can replace all factory gauges with a single instrument that takes a hole and a half. If cutting a new panel, it takes up slight less room than the pair of CGR gauges.

The Garmin GI275 can theoretically do all of it in a single instrument only taking a single hole. But after looking at it myself, it just doesn't display enough to be useful for me. I would want to be able to keep MP/RPM visible all the time and at the same time see all EGT's, CHT's, and Fuel flow at minimum. The GI275 just can't display that info all at the same time and so you'd be going back and forth between displays to get the info.

I chose the EDM900 because it was quite a bit cheaper than the pair of CGR gauges at the time I purchased it. Also I was cutting a new panel and it fit better than the CGR gauges. I've been very happy with it for 5 years now.

[squeaky.stow]

12 hours ago, OR75 said:

i am not sure about other planes ...  but in a Mooney, the inside of the firewall is a total PITA to get to. Had rather pull a full bundled set of wires all the way to the back of a instrument hole. 

I agree. I had replace some of the harness in my JPI and working behind the panel of a Mooney is not fun. 
Kind of misleading marketing I think. The information about the converter box and only two wires features prominently in their website advertising. It seems to be there to imply that installation is easier than with other manufacturer’s monitors. If you have to bury the box behind the panel, it makes the installation even more complex.

[Tim Jodice]

I am finishing up a GI-275 EIS this week I will post some pictures when it is up and running. Like the people that bought the CGR-30 I bought this because I love how it fits in a existing instrument hole.

I installed the GEA-24 in the panel vertically on the right side of the right control yoke shaft. I will post pictures of that as well. 

I found this video helpful. 

 

[Tim Jodice]

13 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

The Garmin GI275 can theoretically do all of it in a single instrument only taking a single hole. But after looking at it myself, it just doesn't display enough to be useful for me. I would want to be able to keep MP/RPM visible all the time and at the same time see all EGT's, CHT's, and Fuel flow at minimum. The GI275 just can't display that info all at the same time and so you'd be going back and forth between displays to get the info.

I agree with almost everything you said. If it is used as a primary (mine is) MP and RPM are always visible. you can program it to show the hottest CHT and EGT along with fuel flow as a part of the home page. I don't think it is important to see all of the CHT and EGT all the time mainly because it automatically shows the hottest one. I don't feel the need to always monitor the cylinders that live at 300-320 degrees 

Obviously if you go pages deep in to other functions you loose that except for the MP and RPM but if you program user limits it will yell at you if something is wrong. 

You can always see it on the big screen on your ipad.

[Marauder]

I have the JPI 900 and EI’s tach, RPM and fuel totalizer. The fuel totalizer has been in the plane since 1993, zero problems. In fact, the only time I sent it back for anything was to have the internal lighting converted to LED to match the more recently installed tach and RPM gauges.

I have owned both the JPI 830 and 900. The 900 has been back to the shop at least 4 times. Once for a firmware update, once for a booting issue and twice for bad displays.

I will give JPI credit that they replaced the display the second time out of warranty but I think the original displays they were using had some issues. The new one doesn’t have the anti-glare coating like the original.

At the time of the JPI 900 purchase, the 3 1/8” units weren’t available and the MVP-50 was almost twice as expensive as the 900.

Old display



New display



EI gauges




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Tim Jodice]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

I have the JPI 900 and EI’s tach, RPM and fuel totalizer. The fuel totalizer has been in the plane since 1993, zero problems. In fact, the only time I sent it back for anything was to have the internal lighting converted to LED to match the more recently installed tach and RPM gauges.

I have owned both the JPI 830 and 900. The 900 has been back to the shop at least 4 times. Once for a firmware update, once for a booting issue and twice for bad displays.

I will give JPI credit that they replaced the display the second time out of warranty but I think the original displays they were using had some issues. The new one doesn’t have the anti-glare coating like the original.

At the time of the JPI 900 purchase, the 3 1/8” units weren’t available and the MVP-50 was almost twice as expensive as the 900.

Old display



New display



EI gauges




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

What is the difference between firmware and software? Serious question I don't know. 

How do you like the PMA450A? If you have time could you take a full picture of it? I have never seen one installed. I have had intrest in one because it looks like a nice way to reduce panel clutter.

[ArtVandelay]

What is the difference between firmware and software? Serious question I don't know. 
How do you like the PMA450A? If you have time could you take a full picture of it? I have never seen one installed. I have had intrest in one because it looks like a nice way to reduce panel clutter.

Firmware is just software that is required for the hardware to be functional.

[carusoam]

Nice video, Tim!

That answered a lot of questions...

And brought up a few more...

-a-

[bob865]

On 4/3/2021 at 9:35 PM, OR75 said:

from the install manual : 

‘’The EDC should be installed on the inside of the cockpit or in an instrument bay with the connectors pointing down.’’

i am not sure about other planes ...  but in a Mooney, the inside of the firewall is a total PITA to get to. Had rather pull a full bundled set of wires all the way to the back of a instrument hole. 

of course should is different than must ... 

This is how we did it.  Since I was taking out a Loran, ADF, DME, and COM2 out of the second radio rack, we repurposed the ADF tray as a mounting tray for the EDC, Manifold Pressure Transducer, and G-meter.  All the wires come through the firewall to this tray and then it's a small wire to the actual instruments on the left side of the panel.  This is an "in process" picture from the install that shows what we did.  In the final install, there is a blanking plate over the entire right side radio stack.  All the parts for the engine monitor are gold in the picture.

[jetdriven]

On 4/2/2021 at 3:07 PM, Ragsf15e said:

Another option is a Garmin gi-275 or g3x with eis.  If you’re planning other Garmin stuff, their integration is really nice.  They have also started Bluetooth download for your engine data which is awesome.

I have a jpi930 and it’s nice but if I was starting from scratch and using mostly Garmin, I would use their eis.

The Garmin EIS on the large panels looks really good, but a GI275 engine monitor is not only expensive, but the presentation is terrible. 

[Stan]

Sorry for the delay in getting back.

 

Mounted the EI box above the pilot side rudder pedals.

Going to the plane today or tomorrow will post pictures.

[OR75]

8 hours ago, bob865 said:

This is how we did it.  Since I was taking out a Loran, ADF, DME, and COM2 out of the second radio rack, we repurposed the ADF tray as a mounting tray for the EDC, Manifold Pressure Transducer, and G-meter.  All the wires come through the firewall to this tray and then it's a small wire to the actual instruments on the left side of the panel.  This is an "in process" picture from the install that shows what we did.  In the final install, there is a blanking plate over the entire right side radio stack.  All the parts for the engine monitor are gold in the picture.

Mounted a GAD29B on an ADF tray.  
but even it is just 1 wire going to the display, you still have a wire bundle inside. Not sure what the issue would be to mount on the firewall. 
i am in the process of removing an encoder , so the EDC could fit there