Old Dog New Tricks... IFR Training

[WaynePierce]

Now that I have a plane capable of great IFR work, I'm interested in re-starting my IFR training. Have any of you started your IFR training over 60? How did you accomplish it? I bought the King Course and have done ok with it but I was curious if being older there is a better way... Maybe something like Advanced or another "accelerated" type schools where they come to you. IFR in 10 days or less. Hah!

I was working on my IFR 10 years ago and had taken the written and passed with an embarrassing 71, but soldiered on and was ready to take the actual flying portion when diagnosed with Colo-Rectal Cancer. After getting that taken care of my written was no longer valid. I decided I didn't want to fly my Cherokee in that kind of weather so I just dropped it. Now, I'd love to be able to climb through a coastal layer or thin layer to get on top and go... I still don't want to fly in bad weather, I just don't want to be hindered by a thin layer.

[Danb]

I’d try to find a local instructor to work at your pace and work towards your goal, I consider the age thinggy a positive ..go for it .you’ll be a better pilot

good luck

[Yetti]

I recently purchased the online sportys and went through it. seemed reasonable.  Now working on getting my exam scores up.    The plan is to do lots of exam4pilots.com and print the results for memory work.  Gonna get the written (and annual) out of the way first.

 

[Marauder]

Now that I have a plane capable of great IFR work, I'm interested in re-starting my IFR training. Have any of you started your IFR training over 60? How did you accomplish it? I bought the King Course and have done ok with it but I was curious if being older there is a better way... Maybe something like Advanced or another "accelerated" type schools where they come to you. IFR in 10 days or less. Hah!
I was working on my IFR 10 years ago and had taken the written and passed with an embarrassing 71, but soldiered on and was ready to take the actual flying portion when diagnosed with Colo-Rectal Cancer. After getting that taken care of my written was no longer valid. I decided I didn't want to fly my Cherokee in that kind of weather so I just dropped it. Now, I'd love to be able to climb through a coastal layer or thin layer to get on top and go... I still don't want to fly in bad weather, I just don't want to be hindered by a thin layer.

I’m working with a pilot who working on his IFR and he is 50ish. Adult learners need a different approach which requires either more visual or conceptual training. In his case doing repeat conceptual training seems to make it stick better than doing it visually (explain it rather than show him).

I would find a mentor/instructor who can identify the best approach for you and proceed from there. Fortunately some of the concepts of IFR training, like NDB approaches are no longer mainstay training but learning a GPS can certainly be challenging.


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[DonMuncy]

I was 55 when I started my PPL and 56 when I started my instrument rating. Frankly, I thought it was not different than if I had done it at 30. I do think I was more risk averse, and potentially more careful, but otherwise no difference. Go for it.

[Air pirate]

The King video will help you get some sleep (just kidding). I did this almost 30 years ago, the basics of their videos are pretty good and I suspect even better now. helped me with my written.  I suggest you find a great CFI-II that you can spend time with, best to fly 3 times per week  with him if you can. Best of luck to you

[flyboy0681]

I was in my mid-50's. It didn't come naturally for me but I got through it. An instructor who understands that concepts may come to you at a slower pace is key. While some of the training was frustrating, I did manage to have a good time at it. And just like Don, I found myself very risk averse and now always err on the side of caution, knowing just how much trouble I could get into when entering actual instrument conditions.

I remember vividly my first few hours under the hood and the difficulty I had keeping the wings level for more than 30 seconds at a time and telling my CFI that I don't think I can do it. Fast forward to today, I fly in actual conditions with just two fingers on the yoke. It was an incredible transformation when I think about it.

[DonMuncy]

I think the IFR training was probably the most difficult training I ran into since my time in veterinary school. But the satisfaction of completing it is commensurate with the difficulty. Well worth it.

[wpbarnar]

My opinion is to use Gliem or Sheppard Air for your written exam test prep.  Don’t fixate on your test score other than passing.       A perfect written score will not keep you from doing something dangerous in the real world.  

The key is the quality and experience of the instructor.   There is a difference between a professional flight instructor and someone  building time in order to get hired by an airline.... Fly as much actual IFR as possible during your training versus under the hood.   The whole experience will be challenging and rewarding.

Bill

[gsxrpilot]

+1 for Sheppard Air and a perfect score of 70. Any more and you studied too much.

I just did the 100 question written for the Commercial. Sheppard Air got it done.

I'd do it in this order...

1. Find the right instructor. I'd interview a few of them and fly with at least a couple of them before settling on one. You be the boss and hire the right employee to teach you.
2. While getting started with the training, get serious on the written.
3. Pass the written - use Sheppard Air for test prep.
4. Now with the written out of the way, fly with the instructor as much as you can. But don't rush it. Make it fun.

[carusoam]

Way to go Wayne!

Many of us around here have had to put off some really cool things until time or AMUs could become available...

So... you are not alone!

The coolest part of the IR training... you are about to find out how human you really are...

If it helps... it isn’t easy when you are over 50... but it isn’t very easy for those under 30 either...  

The knowledge part... is like a college class or two... compared to the PPL...

The flying part... is a test of multi-tasking skills and thinking ahead....

 

There is a thread around here that people have discussed their opinion on the best online schools they have used...

There is some older threads for people that have discussed the various flight training and schools they have used... Search for the name American Flyers... you will probably find the threads... AF was the school I used when I was in my 40s....

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[DXB]

Everyone here is proud of you for making it through your medical adversity, coming back to flying, and reaching for the rating. We all want to help. I see no reason you can't do it.   It is a bit of a pain and takes some time commitment and consistency.  Probably what will help you the most is being secure in the knowledge that the effort will bring you great rewards in the years to come.

[47U]

Old dog and new tricks.  There may be some truth to that, I mean the ‘can’t teach’ part.  

I started writing a novel (confessional?)... nobody wants to read that.  

So, instead I’ll pose a question to the CFIIs on Mooneyspace.  How many IFR students have you had that couldn’t hack it?

Tom

IFR rated at age 58 (presenently non-current, and have a lot of work to do before getting back on the single-pilot IFR horse).

[Bravoman]

If you can allot the time you might consider a training system such as PIC where an instructor comes to you and you work intensively over a 10 day period to train and then take the check ride. That approach appeals to me because you don’t spend unnecessary time relearning what you learned in the last lesson two weeks back, don’t have to worry about scheduling the next lesson, etc. Plus you’re immersed for 10 days and knock it out. You can look at it as an aviation vacation. As with any training the ticket the DPE hands you is a license to learn.

Good luck!

[RLCarter]

An Instrument Rating adds a lot of utility and is very rewarding.

[WaynePierce]

Thank you all for the encouragement and guidance. Sounds like I have my work cut ou even before my work really begins!

[Cyril Gibb]

I did my IFR mid-sixties after being away from flying for 30 years.  For me, getting most of the written studying done before the flying instruction worked best.  When we were in the air, it was more implementing what I had already learned rather than learning & implementing at the same time.

It has been said, and I confirm, that it's harder to fly a flight simulator than a real plane.  I spent some time with x-plane and the Mooney sim.  Once I could keep the needles centered with the sim, doing it in the plane was easy.  Double benefit was the sim had a GNS430, so I got used to button pushing in a more controlled environment.

As with my PPL, I had an experienced old fart instructor that was semi-retired from a previous career.  He had the perfect mix of encouragement, humour and discipline to make the time in the plane both fun and beneficial.  Finding an instructor that matches your needs may be the most difficult part.

[midlifeflyer]

Wayne,

There's much truth to using a test prep program to just get the knowledge test out of the way. But that's only because there are things on that test you will never use. It's a barrier; noting more.

You do want a good ground course though. That's because only 10-20% of instrument flight is about flying the airplane. It's an important 10-20% - basic aircraft control in multiple phases of flight - but it is the smallest part. All the rest is about procedures and the rules which apply to them. For the flight portion, unless you are going to do extensive one-on-one for the ground portion, I'd recommend one of the full courses - not just written test prep. The two I'm most familiar with are Sporty's Instrument Rating Course (link is to the online/app version; there's also a DVD version) and the King courses which include checkride prep.

I'm more familiar with the Sporty's - I've used it in the past. What I like about it is that it includes and follows a flight training syllabus. If you and your instructor follows it, you will be able to pre-brief your lesson and post-flight review it at your leisure. Especially for those of us who are a bit older or with limited time in our schedules, that ca be a great advantage.

[Pete M]

Read the faa instrument flying handbook (on amazon cheap) from cover to cover. You dont have to memorize it, just be familiar with the concepts. Then do the gliem test prep book in the two weeks specified. Dont skip days, get right through it. Time frame is important. You'll score high 80's easy. Then fly 3 or 4 times a week. 4 better. Quickest way to do it with the greatest chance of success. I'm 55 and did most of my advanced training over 50. Yeah, it takes longer:) but it's easily doable if you stick to it and dont take breaks. 

Pete...currently overworked cfi:)

[WaynePierce]

7 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Wayne,

There's much truth to using a test prep program to just get the knowledge test out of the way. But that's only because there are things on that test you will never use. It's a barrier; noting more.

You do want a good ground course though. That's because only 10-20% of instrument flight is about flying the airplane. It's an important 10-20% - basic aircraft control in multiple phases of flight - but it is the smallest part. All the rest is about procedures and the rules which apply to them. For the flight portion, unless you are going to do extensive one-on-one for the ground portion, I'd recommend one of the full courses - not just written test prep. The two I'm most familiar with are Sporty's Instrument Rating Course (link is to the online/app version; there's also a DVD version) and the King courses which include checkride prep.

I'm more familiar with the Sporty's - I've used it in the past. What I like about it is that it includes and follows a flight training syllabus. If you and your instructor follows it, you will be able to pre-brief your lesson and post-flight review it at your leisure. Especially for those of us who are a bit older or with limited time in our schedules, that ca be a great advantage.

I recently purchased the King's "Get it All" kit for IFR. They have updated it in places so Mrs. King goes from middle aged to our age in an edit, kind of funny but the information is still relevant. I'll slug through that for a while and see where I get.

[MBDiagMan]

12 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

I think the IFR training was probably the most difficult training I ran into since my time in veterinary school. But the satisfaction of completing it is commensurate with the difficulty. Well worth it.

Wayne, I am in the midst of the struggle.  I will be 70 in May.  I began preparing for the written in 2016 and was pretty much ready and about to take the test when my life drastically changed unexpectedly.  After a couple of years I got back to that level of study and made an 82 on the written last May.  I never thought I could ever be so proud of an 82 on a test, but I was.  Other delays have occurred including a shoulder injury that got me out of my Johnson bar C, struggle finding the right instructor out here in the boondocks and starting over in an electric gear F, sorting through the shakedown process using even more time.  I am now slowly moving along and think I will get there.

I quoted Don’s post for a reason.  I have had the distinct pleasure of meeting Don and seeing his beautiful Mooney as well as learning various different things from him that come from his vast experience, education and intellect.  Knowing and admiring Don as I do, I feel vindicated for having such a tough time.  When someone as smart, educated and experienced as Don equates IR training with some of the difficulties of veterinary school, it gives me hope and encouragement, and makes me realize the challenge of it..  I hope that it will serve as hope and encouragement for you as well.

I used written material in the beginning when I thought I was ready for the written test.  When I got back to it, I bought King and that helped.  Then I got the Shepherd and that helped, but what really got me over the hump was the Gleim book.  I think it was because it gave me a paper workbook instead of switching screens for the reference figures.  That was more like taking the actual test.

I really think that the whole IR process is something that requires focus.  You have to get into the material and STAY in the material.

Hope this helps!

[Yetti]

So for entertainment after the watching the Sporty videos I thought it would be fun to go fly an approach in VFR....  You know if you have seen the video. right.   Circling approach to Giddings.   First loop off Brenham is "oh shoot it is back there"  And the DME is not working.  But hey we can use the GPS distance.   Then on the DME I starting thinking 11 miles instead of 13 miles.  The tried the hold for two laps.  Kept forgetting where the second had should go.    Summary: This could be a little harder than I thought.

 

[mooniac15u]

1 hour ago, Pete M said:

Read the faa instrument flying handbook (on amazon cheap) from cover to cover. You dont have to memorize it, just be familiar with the concepts. Then do the gliem test prep book in the two weeks specified. Dont skip days, get right through it. Time frame is important. You'll score high 80's easy. Then fly 3 or 4 times a week. 4 better. Quickest way to do it with the greatest chance of success. I'm 55 and did most of my advanced training over 50. Yeah, it takes longer:) but it's easily doable if you stick to it and dont take breaks. 

Pete...currently overworked cfi:)

Or from the FAA for free: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/FAA-H-8083-15B.pdf

 

[carusoam]

Got to love the free reference materials from the FAA...

Best regards from a long time CB,

-a-