Fine wires for the Rocket?

[FloridaMan]

Rocket is in annual right now and considering trying some low time Champion fine wire plugs instead of the massive electrode ones. Thoughts? 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, FloridaMan said:

Rocket is in annual right now and considering trying some low time Champion fine wire plugs instead of the massive electrode ones. Thoughts? 

That's what I have.  Love em'.  I can swear the engine got a tad bit smoother when I got them (about 6 years ago) and they seem to last for ever and never foul.

[Bryan]

I don't own a Rocket, but I do have a late-model 252.  The Tempest Fine-wires are one of the best investments I have made, bar none. Every phase of flight, including starting, was improved.

[gsxrpilot]

Tempest Fine wires in my 252. Love'em.

[Marauder]

I like my Tempest fine wires. How long have the Champion version been out?


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[Deb]

There have been issues with Champion fine wire plugs in the past, described here by Tornado Alley Turbo (TAT): http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05 fine wire spark plugs initial release sept 23 2011.pdf.

Mike Busch wrote about Champion plugs here: https://blog.aopa.org/aopa/2015/03/19/champion-from-denial-to-acceptance/. 

Champion changed the design of their spark plugs in late 2014. From Busch’s article: “It’s easy to tell whether a given Champion spark plug is of the old or new variety. Simply look at the metal contact located at the bottom of the “cigarette well” on the harness end of the plug. The older-design plugs have a straight screwdriver slot machined into the metal contact, while the newer-design plugs do not.”

Edited January 7, 2019 by Deb

[buddy]

I have fine wire Champions in my Ovation but the next time around I’m going with Tempest. I had 3 of my Champions go bad therefore I wouldn’t use them again.

[Marauder]

I have fine wire Champions in my Ovation but the next time around I’m going with Tempest. I had 3 of my Champions go bad therefore I wouldn’t use them again.

After having a significant issue (high resistance) with a set of Champion massives, I opted for the Tempest.




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[thinwing]

My tempest have been trouble free at 400 hrs

[carusoam]

Champion failed to come to the truth about their varying resistance...

They earned the prize of last company to be invited to be a supplier for my Mooney...

Best regards,

-a-

[jaylw314]

1 minute ago, carusoam said:

Champion failed to come to the truth about their varying resistance...

They earned the prize of last company to be invited to be a supplier for my Mooney...

Best regards,

-a-

I have to remember that line the next time I take bids from contractors...

[Danb]

I had fine wire champions for about 200 hours and changed to fine wire tempest due to issues mentioned prior, although I had no issues with the champs

[StevenL757]

10 hours ago, Deb said:

There have been issues with Champion fine wire plugs in the past, described here by Tornado Alley Turbo (TAT): http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05 fine wire spark plugs initial release sept 23 2011.pdf.

Mike Busch wrote about Champion plugs here: https://blog.aopa.org/aopa/2015/03/19/champion-from-denial-to-acceptance/. 

Champion changed the design of their spark plugs in late 2014. From Busch’s article: “It’s easy to tell whether a given Champion spark plug is of the old or new variety. Simply look at the metal contact located at the bottom of the “cigarette well” on the harness end of the plug. The older-design plugs have a straight screwdriver slot machined into the metal contact, while the newer-design plugs do not.”

I agree.

Tempest fine wires...hands down.  Combined with Bendix (CMI) mags and a gold seal ignition harness is the best ignition system you can have for the Ovation’s IO550 platform.

[philiplane]

1 hour ago, StevenL757 said:

12 hours ago, Deb said:

 

Mike Busch wrote about Champion plugs here: https://blog.aopa.org/aopa/2015/03/19/champion-from-denial-to-acceptance/. 

 

I

Those are one of my customer's spark plugs in the blue trays. I've been involved in the Champion fiasco since 2010. They finally changed their basic resistor design in February 2014, but they did NOT change the fine wire insulators that are prone to cracking. I would not use a Champion fine wire plug. Their massive electrode plugs are OK if the date code is newer than March 2014.

I would recommend the Tempest fine wire plugs for any application. 

[Jeev]

14 hours ago, FloridaMan said:

Rocket is in annual right now and considering trying some low time Champion fine wire plugs instead of the massive electrode ones. Thoughts? 

Do it!  I flew over 900 hrs on a set of tempest fine wires in the J and never had a spark plug issue, no fouling, nothing.  Running massives in the 310 now cause I'm too cheap to buy 24 finewires .

[StevenL757]

7 hours ago, Jeev said:

Do it!  I flew over 900 hrs on a set of tempest fine wires in the J and never had a spark plug issue, no fouling, nothing.  Running massives in the 310 now cause I'm too cheap to buy 24 finewires .

So...save up and buy those 24 plugs.

Do it!!  :-)

[Jeev]

16 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

So...save up and buy those 24 plugs.

Do it!!  :-)

HAHA touche' .  Hard to save up when burning 24GPH, I really do miss my Mooney when I'm solo. When it is time for new plugs I will likely go fine wires.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Jeev

[StevenL757]

Yea, I hear you.  I have a fair amount of time in the 310R, and they're really great airplanes.  I used to fly N98869 (a T-310R) when it was based in the Seattle area many years ago, but lost track of it since moving out here.  Wouldn't mind owning one, but really can't justify the cost, as the speeds are really close to my Ovation.

[Jeev]

6 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

Yea, I hear you.  I have a fair amount of time in the 310R, and they're really great airplanes.  I used to fly N98869 (a T-310R) when it was based in the Seattle area many years ago, but lost track of it since moving out here.  Wouldn't mind owning one, but really can't justify the cost, as the speeds are really close to my Ovation.

Yea I am loving it and needed the room for my growing family.  I was looking at turbos but thought it was too much of a financial step up from the J to feed two turbo charged IO-520's.  I ended up finding a 310R Colemill (upgraded with  IO-550's) so it is a kick in the pants and gives me great performance even in the low teens without having to feed the turbos.  I get 185-200kts true between 8000-12000 depending on how much fuel I want to poor in there, 23-30 GPH.  When I don't need to haul car seats, ton of toddler supplies, wifes bags and my mother in law around I very well may end up in an Ovation but that is years down the road.  I googled it and it looks like your old bird is flying photo missions now.

[Marcopolo]

Tempest Tempest Tempest!!!!!!!

 

  The only thing in my plane that says champion on it is the hoodie my daughter wears cause they sponsor her swim team's apparel!  (Don't look to see who made my slick mags )

 

+10 for Tempest fine wires

[aviatoreb]

When I was in High School I had a summer intern gig at a local university in a high energy physics lab where they had a massive electron pulse gun that shot a massively powered arc through a 2 ft vacuum for a very very very very short time burst.  The thing was about 2 stories tall, round and probably 50ft long on the side.  My job was to make little anodes of various shapes designed by the professor, who would specify the shape and material and I - and a few others the same - would spin those special shapes in a machine shop lathe for like 2 days to get them perfect.  Then we would literally blow them up in a glorious nano-second.  This was the mid 1980s during the "Star Wars" research era of Reagan and high energy pulses of all sorts were all the rage.

On the side of that very big electron pulse gun someone painted Champion One very artistically looking like the real trade mark logo of a real spark plug marking. Because that was what that thing was - one very big spark plug.

[FloridaMan]

I ended up calling GAMI and asking them as well. I read in another thread that someone had better luck with massive electrodes than fine wires with GAMIjectors. I don’t have GAMIs yet and it was interesting speaking with those guys. They suggested I might not need them for the rocket at all. 

At any rate, I suspect I’ll notice an improvement with even these new massive electrode plugs. 

 

[philiplane]

There's no luck involved. Fine wire plugs provide 1-2 percent better fuel economy, so they pay for themselves well before they wear out in 2000-2500 hours. RAM Aircraft published findings on the topic.

In which time you will have had to buy 3 or more sets of massive plugs, and pay for gapping and cleaning that fine wires don't need. 

[FloridaMan]

15 hours ago, philiplane said:

There's no luck involved. Fine wire plugs provide 1-2 percent better fuel economy, so they pay for themselves well before they wear out in 2000-2500 hours. RAM Aircraft published findings on the topic.

In which time you will have had to buy 3 or more sets of massive plugs, and pay for gapping and cleaning that fine wires don't need. 

Well, maybe next time. In the grand scheme of aircraft expenses, I'm not going to lose any sleep over not going with fine wires this go-round unless it's the direct result of the massives grounding me, which hasn't happened (yet). 

[Mooneymuscle56m]

I had great success with Tempest Fine wire plugs in Lycoming engines.  I recently installed tempest in my TSIO-550-G1.  My findings, 

smoother start

not as cold blooded

hardly any mag drop

cooler LOP operation 

roughly .7-1gph better fuel burn. 

I have 70 hours on them, no regrets.