How do you deal with ice?

[SpamPilot]

I'd like to hear from people who have developed experience and knowledge and consider themselves reasonably competent in dealing with icing conditions, whether known or likely or suspected.  I'm not merely interested in techniques for flying through ice, I'm also (and perhaps more) interested in knowing how people deploy their brain as well as their equipment and information sources to avoid ice altogether.  I'm less interested in comments that simplify down to "I avoid ice by just not flying when there might be ice" because I'm looking for information that goes beyond that sage advice.

So, whether you have FIKI, TKS, prop de-ice, a turbo, or no special equipment at all: How do you prepare for a flight that may involve icing?  What will/won't you fly through?  What is your typical strategy - depart only when it's VFR and you can climb over the top of suspected icing conditions, or depart IFR, take what ATC gives you, and deal with it as the situation develops?  What information resources are useful and which are noise?  Is the combination of your aircraft's features, your preflight planning, and your flight tactics generally good enough to keep you out of trouble?

 

[carusoam]

Well you covered most of the avoidance...

Are you instrument rated?

No Fiki, IR, I try to know where the weather is before flying in it...

moisture hiding in cold clouds can be dangerous...

rain falling into cold air below is equally dangerous...

Always be aware of where the warmer and colder temps are...  places to escape to if icing occurs...

It may be above or below you. Go there... don’t wait..,

Be ready and able to adjust altitude quickly,  talking with ATC helps when in IMC... or Oon an IFR flight... or using Flight Following... and whenever...

I have run into ice a couple of times... it builds at a surprising rate... a laws of physics and weather thing...

When checking weather... be looking for unstable air.  Especially in the areas east of a Great Lake... or the PNW... lots of water in freezing conditions...

PP thoughts, not a weatherman or CFII

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

I keep a copy of the freezing level chart and make sure to always know where the freezing level is. Just need to ensure you have an out (mea below freezing etc). 

No ifr over the Sierras since the meas are too high to get out of ice  

-Robert 

[Bob - S50]

I always assume there will be icing in the clouds when the temperature is at or below freezing.  I use several sources to get an idea where the clouds are:

Skew-T, Ogimet, and WeatherSpork.

If the MEA and my direction of flight will allow me to cruise below the freezing level I don't worry about it.

If I can't do that, then I consider what you suggested.  Will I be on top before I get to the freezing level?  And will I be able to descend below the freezing level at my destination before I enter the weather?

If I can't do that, can I fly the entire route VFR below the weather?

If I can't do that, I stay home.

[201er]

https://aviationweather.gov/gairmet/plot
 

Select Icing and Desired Time

 

https://aviationweather.gov/windtemp/plot

Select Plot -> Temperature

Vert Level -> Desired Altitude

Time -> Desired Date/Time

This not only lets you see forecast temperatures but a graphical image of the trend with altitude and time around the entire country! Helps if you're thinking how to deviate around it.

[gsxrpilot]

And if you are like @201er, the entire country is in range for deviations. 

[larryb]

What I have learned is that forecasts cannot be trusted to be exact. Freeezing temps can be a couple thousand feet lower than the forecast level, especially in precip. Ceilings can be a couple thousand feet lower than forecast. Clouds can be more wide-spread than forecast. So your planning may lead you to think you can stay clear of icing conditions, but can you be sure? I have cancelled a bunch of trips over the years because I could not be sure.

[Marauder]

What I have learned is that forecasts cannot be trusted to be exact. Freeezing temps can be a couple thousand feet lower than the forecast level, especially in precip. Ceilings can be a couple thousand feet lower than forecast. Clouds can be more wide-spread than forecast. So your planning may lead you to think you can stay clear of icing conditions, but can you be sure? I have cancelled a bunch of trips over the years because I could not be sure.

And what may be ice for you might not be for the next guy flying 30 knots faster in the same area.

As a non-Fiki owner, it is about knowing the freezing levels, the cloud levels and the “get out of Dodge” strategy. Having lived in WNY for a few years, I would not launch in near freezing conditions unless I knew for certain the stratus deck was relatively thin (

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, 201er said:

https://aviationweather.gov/gairmet/plot
 

Select Icing and Desired Time

 

https://aviationweather.gov/windtemp/plot

Select Plot -> Temperature

Vert Level -> Desired Altitude

Time -> Desired Date/Time

This not only lets you see forecast temperatures but a graphical image of the trend with altitude and time around the entire country! Helps if you're thinking how to deviate around it.

Another good visual depiction of icing is the Graphical Forecast for Aviation site from the NWS as well.  It pulls pretty much all weather information together and has a button specifically for icing that you can adjust by time and altitude.

[Seth]

I have encountered ice a few times in my Missile and twice in my former M20F.   Escape as soon as possible.  Turn 180 degrees and leave the area. Climb through a thin layer quickly (ice tends to accumulate faster at the top of the clouds).  Descend quickly through the layer on your approach.   Don't fly if there are reports of icing.  Play your route to go around the reported areas of icing.  Descend to warmer air below.

You can plan and work your way around ice in winter flying, but if you are ever in it - get out.  Have an out.  Don't fly on days when you don't have an out and its likely you are going to have an encounter.

My worst was a trip along the Appalachians and it was not forecast, but all of a sudden I heard reports of it where I was headed, and low and behold, it started forming on my airplane.  I asked for lower, and lower, until I was as low as possible.  I had descended below the cloud deck, and simply carried it the rest of the way to landing.  I was flying fine and it was no longer accumulating, so I landed.  It broke off as I entered warmer air at my destination.

When climbing through a thin layer in my M20F I picked up some light ice but made it up very quickly (in Detroit).  Once above the clouds, it dry air it sublimated off pretty quickly.  it was above freezing near the ground so I knew I could descend if needed.

In the Cirrus SR22's I fly for a charter company, they all are FIKI and I turn on the TKS prior to entering any type of visible moisture if near or below freezing.  Recently near IAD, Dulles, there were reports of light icing at 5-6000 feet.  During the climb and decent I put the TKS on prior to entering the cloud layer - didn't accumulate anything but ran the fluid anyway.  It is important to not when disembarking or climbing into your airplane, if you ran TKS fluid, watch your footing - it can be VERY slippery - this is not in any of the training I read.

-Seth

 

 

 

[Shadrach]

When I encounter ice, I try to incorporate a little bourbon and branch water. In most all other cases, I feel it should be avoided.

[Piloto]

I found that an application on the wing of Rain-X Plastic helps on reducing ice accumulation. With ice on the windshield and pitot tube I see no ice on the wings. I also check on: https://www.aviationweather.gov/icing/fip

I f

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Piloto

[jaylw314]

1 minute ago, Piloto said:

I found that an application on the wing of Rain-X helps on reducing ice accumulation. With ice on the windshield and pitot tube I see no ice on the wings. I also check on: 

I've found the GFA website displays the icing information much more easily.  You can zoom in and there are sliders for time and altitude.  The Icing Forecast product has drop down menus that are harder to flip through.

Regular Rain-X can damage paint since it's solvent-based.  There's Rain-X for Plastic, which is what I think you were talking about.  I tried it because I had it on hand, it helps make bugs easier to clean up like any other wax, but I haven't tried it in icing and don't want to try...  I'd also question whether any other wax product would do the same thing (if at all)

[Piloto]

3 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I've found the GFA website displays the icing information much more easily.  You can zoom in and there are sliders for time and altitude.  The Icing Forecast product has drop down menus that are harder to flip through.

Regular Rain-X can damage paint since it's solvent-based.  There's Rain-X for Plastic, which is what I think you were talking about.  I tried it because I had it on hand, it helps make bugs easier to clean up like any other wax, but I haven't tried it in icing and don't want to try...  I'd also question whether any other wax product would do the same thing (if at all)

Yes for plastics is the one I use. I tried on the windshield but it kind of leaves a messy residue. Found a noticeable speed increase when applied but maybe is due to just cleaning the wing.

José

[carusoam]

An interesting presentation coming up regarding aviation weather... by an aviation weather guy...

one day away...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[steingar]

I got news.  Neither RainX, Teflon, or anything else will stop or even slow down ice accumulation.  Any effect you think you see is a placebo.  That, according to a NASA scientist who specializes in airframe icing.  The scariest thing during that presentation was a map of the CONUS color coded to show the frequency of icing encounters.  There was a big angry looking red bullseye right over my home.

What Seth said makes a lot of sense to me.  Get the hell out of it fast.  I doubt ice reacts very well with our laminar flow wings.  We fly light recreational aircraft, not airliners that can safely penetrate this stuff.

At one of our IFR clubs we had  bunch of high timers talk about their closest calls.  The vast majority were icing of some form.  I do plan on doing the IFR thing, but I have doubts as to its utility much the year where I am.

[Guest]

My best experience with ice was, in a glass with some alcohol poured over it.

Clarence

[201er]

2 hours ago, Piloto said:

I found that an application on the wing of Rain-X Plastic helps on reducing ice accumulation. With ice on the windshield and pitot tube I see no ice on the wings. I also check on: https://www.aviationweather.gov/icing/fip

At what temperature does your piss tube freeze over? And what's the coldest you can still deice it with your fluid?

[Jerry 5TJ]

The ADDS Icing site

ADDS Ice Forecast Page 

has been very useful to me this decade.  If I've encountered icing, the site showed it was likely.  If it forecasts SLD or heavy ice at altitudes I have to use, I don't go there. 

Best ice escape tool seems to be a hot prop and a strong engine.  De-Ice Boots are a short term aid only.   Climbing has always worked for me, tho that's not proof of anything.   Sometimes I have had to climb above FL200 to get above the ice.

[Piloto]

1 minute ago, 201er said:

At what temperature does your piss tube freeze over? And what's the coldest you can still deice it with your fluid?

Before going into an icing trip I spray the venturi and antennas with WD-40. Urine temp is 98F so it does not freeze.

José

[aviatoreb]

9 minutes ago, Piloto said:

Before going into an icing trip I spray the venturi and antennas with WD-40. Urine temp is 98F so it does not freeze.

José

Honestly if I didn't know that you were serious, I would swear that this is so crazy, to absurd to be true, that you are clearly kidding.

 

[Piloto]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

I got news.  Neither RainX, Teflon, or anything else will stop or even slow down ice accumulation.  Any effect you think you see is a placebo.  That, according to a NASA scientist who specializes in airframe icing.  The scariest thing during that presentation was a map of the CONUS color coded to show the frequency of icing encounters.  There was a big angry looking red bullseye right over my home.

What Seth said makes a lot of sense to me.  Get the hell out of it fast.  I doubt ice reacts very well with our laminar flow wings.  We fly light recreational aircraft, not airliners that can safely penetrate this stuff.

At one of our IFR clubs we had  bunch of high timers talk about their closest calls.  The vast majority were icing of some form.  I do plan on doing the IFR thing, but I have doubts as to its utility much the year where I am.

Interesting can you show us the NASA report?. Then how TKS got approved?

José

Edited October 24, 2018 by Piloto

[jaylw314]

32 minutes ago, 201er said:

At what temperature does your piss tube freeze over? And what's the coldest you can still deice it with your fluid?

Oh, come on!  I was just eating lunch!

[steingar]

10 minutes ago, Piloto said:

Interesting can you show us the NASA report?. Then how TKS got approved?

I can do neither.  This was an oral presentation to which I do not have the materials.  This was the opinion of a NASA investigator who specialized in airframe icing.  It is also my opinion based on an undergraduate chemistry degree.  It is also my opinion based on simple common sense.  If RainX really did prevent icing we'd all be using it.  Airframe icing is hugely dangerous, and affects most northern IFR pilots.  Indeed, if it worked so well why would commercial airliners spend all that money for TKS, boots, and other ice abatement devices when a simple coating of Rain X would do the trick?

[Piloto]

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