Abysmal Commercial Pilot

[cliffy]

Whoops!  Don't know what happened there but-

I was taught 55 years ago (just a couple of months away) for (VFR) -  controls, instruments, fuel, flaps, trim, seat belts and run up, and at the other end- GUMP

It has served me well all these years. Now you wanna talk going IFR ? different kettle of fish.

Even in blow torches what is really the killer items boils down to 3 things -

flaps, trim and speed brakes in (in position items just before pushing the knobs forward)

Chances are you get that right and you'll fly BUT I'm not saying that check lists shouldn't be done just that they all may not take the same form and still be quite usable. 

 

[Mooneymite]

I'm well below average, but I'm a student pilot....still learning.

 

[Jim Peace]

6 hours ago, PTK said:

Mike, you are legend in your own mind. You have picked apart three pilots so far and counting.

Could it be your ego is out of control here? 

+ 1

Edited January 8, 2017 by Jim Peace

[FBCK]

It's about risk mitigation, you shouldn't be caring passengers if you are not using it. You are putting yourself and your passengers in a position of taking greater risks than they may be aware, that's not a good thing.

[Danb]

Its appalling Mike, I'd be scared to make the flight home, being in a third world country with the stuff you outlined I don't know what I'd do, thinking of alternatives if any were there I guess.  I also don't get those busting your balls for outlining your experience. Consider making sure your in the right seat if action on your part is necessary to save pops and wife's  bottom. I don't get Peters remarks unless it's the Jersey bantering mentioned before. Looking forward to your response based on the flights back.

[chrisk]

5 hours ago, Marauder said:

I've even had people fly with me as a safety pilot and question why I think I need to use a checklist in a "simple" airplane. It's like all professions, there are some that take it seriously and others who treat it as a job.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

For me, the Mooney can be complex on a go around, and there is no time for a list until things are well under control.   Max power, positive rate of climb, flaps retracting, trim-trim-trim, gear up.    -Oh wait, I forgot something.    The plan is climbing really slowly.  -Oh crap,  speed breaks down!!  --Why is the JPI screaming?   Cowl flaps open!!  Oh yea, is the manifold pressure still at 40 inches?  That said, I don't see any way around it.  You've got to memorize the list of things to do, and double check things later with a list.   How about a poll on how many folks have forgotten to put the landing gear up, and wondered to themselves, what is wrong with my plane, it's performing very poorly today.  -Yes it is, and it was the pilot performing poorly.

 

I've had instructors scold me for not using a pre-landing check list when flying a LSA, where things really are simple.  The fuel selector is on if the engine is running and there is only one tank.   No mixture or prop control.  No under carriage to worry about.  And if you leave your seat belts on, nothing there either.  Anyway, GUMPS turns into nothing.     I asked what am I supposed to check?   And then I got some answer about looking to see if the tires were flat, looking for warning lights, and seeing if there was enough fuel for a go around. 

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

Life is dangerous, and us pilots, of all people should know that. We'd all be safer if we left the flying to the true professionals flying the multi turbines of the major carriers. But then what's the point in living.  I commend Mike for taking the trips he does and seeing parts of the world most Americans are afraid to go. And as far as flying on non-American carriers, there are many with MUCH better safety records than United/Delta/American. They're also much more professional, friendly, polite, on-time, etc. 

It's a big world out there and lots to see. I feel sorry for the countless Americans who are afraid to go experience it without wearing a military uniform.

Here's a short list of carriers I'll put ahead of the US carriers based on my experience (350,000 miles in 2016):  Qantas, Cathay, Singapore, Turkish, Emirates, Ethiad. 

[whiskytango]

Professional pilots can screw up anywhere.  My closest call as a passenger was in a regional turboprop in the USA, where the PIC made about a 60 degree bank on the base to final turn when he realized he was blowing through the extended centerline.  Several of my family members were on that flight (we were all going to a wedding), and as soon as we got off the plane they asked me me if that last turn was "normal".  I assured them it was not.  I have never flown with that carrier since.

[yvesg]

30 minutes ago, whiskytango said:

Professional pilots can screw up anywhere.  My closest call as a passenger was in a regional turboprop in the USA, where the PIC made about a 60 degree bank on the base to final turn when he realized he was blowing through the extended centerline.  Several of my family members were on that flight (we were all going to a wedding), and as soon as we got off the plane they asked me me if that last turn was "normal".  I assured them it was not.  I have never flown with that carrier since.

I also had an event with an American carrier: Took off from Chicago in a regional jet and went right into a thunder storm after takeoff. Got hit by lightning. Almost All my family was with me. Since then, some of my daugthers are scared of flying.

Yves

[bonal]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Life is dangerous, and us pilots, of all people should know that. We'd all be safer if we left the flying to the true professionals flying the multi turbines of the major carriers. But then what's the point in living.  I commend Mike for taking the trips he does and seeing parts of the world most Americans are afraid to go. And as far as flying on non-American carriers, there are many with MUCH better safety records than United/Delta/American. They're also much more professional, friendly, polite, on-time, etc. 

It's a big world out there and lots to see. I feel sorry for the countless Americans who are afraid to go experience it without wearing a military uniform.

Here's a short list of carriers I'll put ahead of the US carriers based on my experience (350,000 miles in 2016):  Qantas, Cathay, Singapore, Turkish, Emirates, Ethiad. 

I'm one of those thats not likely to see those parts of the world.  it has nothing to do with fear but there is still so much of this county that I have yet to see I want to do that first.  And there are lots of places on this earth that I could care less about seeing.  I would enjoy GB and parts of Europe would love to see the Belgium GP to see Spa.  Would love to visit Wales as thats my roots.  And lets not forget some people dont have the means to go visit all the wonders of the earth.

Sorry if my posts today are a bit grouchy but I was called into work for emergency stand by for the storms and so far we havn't had any real problems locally.

[Ned Gravel]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Here's a short list of carriers I'll put ahead of the US carriers based on my experience (350,000 miles in 2016):  Qantas, Cathay, Singapore, Turkish, Emirates, Ethiad. 

I have the same list, but mine had Thai airways on it.  

[gsxrpilot]

23 minutes ago, bonal said:

I'm one of those thats not likely to see those parts of the world.  it has nothing to do with fear but there is still so much of this county that I have yet to see I want to do that first.  And there are lots of places on this earth that I could care less about seeing.  I would enjoy GB and parts of Europe would love to see the Belgium GP to see Spa.  Would love to visit Whales as thats my roots.  And lets not forget some people dont have the means to go visit all the wonders of the earth.

Sorry if my posts today are a bit grouchy but I was called into work for emergency stand by for the storms and so far we havn't had any real problems locally.

No worries, sorry you got called into work.  My wife and I certainly enjoy travel. We've been together 10 years and have been to 62 countries and all 7 continents in that time. But we almost never pay for any of it. I am required to travel by my employer and spend some 150+ nights away from home. As a result we have plenty of airline miles, and hotel points. Add to that that almost every dollar we spend is done on travel based credit cards which also generate points (but never carry a balance). Consequently we never pay for flights or hotels.  That way, travel is almost cheaper than staying home.

[Bravoman]

He made it, I don't know what he's bellyaching about!

[ArtVandelay]

I thought the new concept was flow checks, instead of a checklist, you scan the controls in a specific direction or flow?

[cliffy]

GSXR-   Cheaper than staying at home?  You don't have a home :-) :-) :-)

WOW  and I thought i was gone a lot when I was working.  Now every day is Saturday.

[flyboy0681]

Doesn't this guy ever work?

[bonal]

As for the OP sounds like some definite concerns based on your description but i'm sure if 201er were to fly with me I would most likely get a negative review.  Not saying I'm a bad pilot but I bet there are things i do differently.  But then I bet we could reverse roles and any one of us would see things that another does differently and perhaps in their opinion not as well. What I like is to read about others mistakes and try to apply them to my own flying to improve on my procedures.  Like 201ers obsession with his AOA instrument something I will never purchase but it got me to thinking more about wing loading and AOA as a major factor in my flying.

[201er]

8 hours ago, Danb said:

Its appalling Mike, I'd be scared to make the flight home, being in a third world country with the stuff you outlined I don't know what I'd do, thinking of alternatives if any were there I guess.  I also don't get those busting your balls for outlining your experience. Consider making sure your in the right seat if action on your part is necessary to save pops and wife's  bottom. I don't get Peters remarks unless it's the Jersey bantering mentioned before. Looking forward to your response based on the flights back.

Well that's it with the air taxi. We're going by ground the rest of the way before going back by airline. It's part of the plan anyway.

 

I'm surprised that some people can't tell the difference between not using a checklist and not using a checklist and then forgetting intended stuff becaue of not using it. I'm surprised that some people here can't tell the difference between doing things differently and doing things carelessly. Safety starts with culture. You can disagree with me all you like but to disagree with safety is concerning.

[201er]

17 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

And while I’m talking about developing a safety culture that makes it OK for GA pilots to go around when it’s appropriate, the rest of us in the industry need to be supportive of pilots who make prudent safety choices even if those choices cause delays. Aviation banter, teasing or pressure that can seem harmless can make it difficult for some pilots to make prudent safety choices for fear of appearing foolish or inadequate before their aviation peers.

In the end, it’s always ultimately the pilot flying’s responsibility to ensure a safe flight for him/herself and passengers. I would just ask that you consider whether any decisions you’ve made when flying were influenced by what others would think of you. And if they were, what can you do to stop that influence from affecting the safety of your future flights?

Interesting article. What I've found very admirable is that many of the highly experienced Mooney pilots in my local flying group that I look up to are exactly the opposite way of this. They encourage people not to make a flight out of safety concerns rather than making them feel pressured. They ask questions that might help the novice come to his own safe conclusion. I admire their approach to safety.

The Mooney Caravan on the other hand I feel is a bit more driving. I understand that they are more advanced pilots and it is part of what they do. However, I feel that it is more likely that a caravan pilot could feel pressured to perform above his capability to avoid ridicule and not to let his lead down. Ridicule seems to be at the heart of the Caravan organization and after reading the above article it is even more clear how it could adversely affect pilots into pushing themselves beyond their limits. 

Mooneyspace is somewhere in between.

[carusoam]

How are the other things..?

taxis, other cars on the streets, security, that kind of thing... Similar to the pilot experience?

My travel experience in less wealthy countries... other cars don't have headlights even after dark.  Motorcycles fill the spaces between you and the car in the other lane.  Alcohol is still used in moderation prior to driving.

The first world has luxuries that the second world just doesn't have, yet....

Continuous improvement is a good philosophy, it applies equally for everyone...

Best regards,

-a-

[201er]

28 minutes ago, carusoam said:

How are the other things..?

taxis, other cars on the streets, security, that kind of thing... Similar to the pilot experience?

My travel experience in less wealthy countries... other cars don't have headlights even after dark.  Motorcycles fill the spaces between you and the car in the other lane.  Alcohol is still used in moderation prior to driving.

The first world has luxuries that the second world just doesn't have, yet....

Continuous improvement is a good philosophy, it applies equally for everyone...

Best regards,

-a-

That stuff is ok here. I've been to places in Africa where they had to hold the phone screen of a Nokia out the window in place of headlights. But South Africa and Botswana are alright.

[Danb]

Mike I stopped flying with a friend a high time bo pilot who the last two times we flew did not use his checklist on preflight or anywhere for that matter. I softly queried him he nicely said he knew everything on the lists. Now he's the copilot.

[Yetti]

think of the training the bus driver had that would take you on narrow canyon roads on the 6 hour overland  trip.   Now you will feel better.   Yetti will not fly AreoMexico

[MyNameIsNobody]

This thread is just NOT funny.  You have a pilot that states he is not much of a user of checklists telling us about poor safety technique of other professional pilots.

You can't make this stuff up.

FAIL.

In another thread you have pilots talking about a "pro" that admitted he made a mistake.  He didn't use a checklist.  Result was an off airport landing.  There was all kinds of discussion and berating another for calling him and us out.  They attacked the pilot making the "attack" vs. attacking what LED to the off field landing.

Just another example of our society today being PC and not calling out when the emperor has no clothes.  Sometimes you have to hurt someone's feelings to make a point.  When that someone volunteers himself for that...

Again, MS:

FAIL.

Humans are funny.  Both Ha Ha AND Strange.

Not a fan of the parrot man's "teaching technique".  Might be a great guy, but if he tries to sell AOA devices as a profession I think the parrot starves.

Guys that fly formation "for fun" rather than to prepare for war (with ejection devices and chutes) are goofy.  I just watch Top Gun and listen to Danger Zone.  

Running a tank dry.  Another brilliant idea for a pleasure pilot that is flying for fun NOT for pay.  Another landing.  A chance to practice, stretch legs, see another airport and support them.  I am down with that.

I feel better.  

Carry on...

[salty]

DG isnt necessary for a takeoff. Isnt necessary for a 10 minute flight to a well known destination. But it could be handy for landing, or maybe he just got bored during cruise and adjusted it to pass the time. Or maybe he's just saving time by doing things in route that aren't necessary to burn fuel on the ground doing. Im 100% certain it could have been a safer flight, but it sounds to me like some nit picking going on. Didnt know the density altitude? Sounds line a lame concern to me for a pilot flying the same plane and same locations every day. 1+1 still equals 2 the next day, you don't have to do the math if the variables don't change. The lack of mag check and downwind takeoff are real safety concerns, but I'd not be surprised that money (faster turnaround) is more important in a place like that.

I dunno. I'm a newb you wouldn't want to fly with anyway, but I sure wouldn't want you in my right seat. That flight would suck for both of us. Maybe you should sit in the back and take pictures out the window, sitting in the right seat didn't fix any of your complaints anyway.