How to change the oil?

[TheTurtle]

6 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The gold coloured part is the cooling should for the engine driven fuel pump, they do tend to flop around a bit.

Clarence

great thanks.  It looks like a real pain to get to so Im glad it can stay loose

[DaV8or]

My oil filter rig-

I have since added a 90 degree elbow and down spout directly into the bucket. When you're done, chuck the caps on so no need to clean the rig up. On the oil side, I have a quick drain, so with a hose I can do both the oil drain and the filter removal at once and they both drain into the same bucket. It's cutting the filter and examining the element that is messy.

[DonMuncy]

2 hours ago, DaV8or said:

My oil filter rig-

I have since added a 90 degree elbow and down spout directly into the bucket. When you're done, chuck the caps on so no need to clean the rig up. On the oil side, I have a quick drain, so with a hose I can do both the oil drain and the filter removal at once and they both drain into the same bucket. It's cutting the filter and examining the element that is messy.

I usually set my filter upside down on top of the garbage can and let it drain for a day or two before opening it up. It is still not clean, but much better.

[jamesm]

Here is something  similar that  I use on my 67 C works pretty reliably  and consistently without spilling. It about 3 ft long aluminum angle.

Just remove the scat hose works like a champ. Put container on floor to catch oil from the filter.

Hope this helps.

James '67C

[DaV8or]

20 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

I usually set my filter upside down on top of the garbage can and let it drain for a day or two before opening it up. It is still not clean, but much better.

Yes, I do that too. I have a screen on top of my bucket that I use to catch the oil, and I let it sit and drain there a while first.

[luv737s]

Before you take off the filter, put a small hole in the top.  I use compressed air in the hole and it blows almost all the residual oil out of the filter and into the quick drain.  Very little oil remaining when you spin off the filter.  Trick taught to me by old mooney mechanic.

[Yetti]

6 minutes ago, luv737s said:

Before you take off the filter, put a small hole in the top.  I use compressed air in the hole and it blows almost all the residual oil out of the filter and into the quick drain.  Very little oil remaining when you spin off the filter.  Trick taught to me by old mooney mechanic.

Would that blow back all the bad stuff that settled into the filter?  The path of least resistance would not be through the filter medium.

[RLCarter]

8 minutes ago, luv737s said:

Before you take off the filter, put a small hole in the top.  I use compressed air in the hole and it blows almost all the residual oil out of the filter and into the quick drain.  Very little oil remaining when you spin off the filter.  Trick taught to me by old mooney mechanic.

Not worried about blowing any debris into the engine?

[bradp]

Anyone have any pictures of R/R of the suction screen.  Seems like a b$&@ard to get to. 

[DaV8or]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

Anyone have any pictures of R/R of the suction screen.  Seems like a b$&@ard to get to. 

No, because I've never seen it. None of the shops I've taken my Mooney to in the past bother with that screen. (LASAR, Top Gun and good shop in Santa Barbara) The way it was explained to me was, when our engines were first designed, the screen was all there was and there was no spin on filter. Later they modified the design to include a spin on filter and just kept the screen. The spin on filter catches more than the screen ever could. Folks that struggle and toil to remove find that low and behold, there is never anything in it.

I'd like to see what it looks like too just out of curiosity. 

[stevesm20b]

6 hours ago, Yetti said:

Would that blow back all the bad stuff that settled into the filter?  The path of least resistance would not be through the filter medium.

The air blows the oil through the filter medium. All filters have a anti drain back feature so none of the contaminants go back through the engine.

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, DaV8or said:

No, because I've never seen it. None of the shops I've taken my Mooney to in the past bother with that screen. (LASAR, Top Gun and good shop in Santa Barbara) The way it was explained to me was, when our engines were first designed, the screen was all there was and there was no spin on filter. Later they modified the design to include a spin on filter and just kept the screen. The spin on filter catches more than the screen ever could. Folks that struggle and toil to remove find that low and behold, there is never anything in it.

I'd like to see what it looks like too just out of curiosity. 

The oil suction screen is meant to keep the large chunks out of the oil pump gears.  I've seen enough debris in the screen to starve to oil pump and cause low oil pressure.  Not cleaning it is tempting fate.

Older engines had a pressure screen in the past, most now have a full flow filter.  This is a different animal than the suction screen.

Clarence

[luv737s]

13 hours ago, RLCarter said:

Not worried about blowing any debris into the engine?

Nope, goes straight to the drain.

[ArtVandelay]

Nope, goes straight to the drain.

And you know this how?
Oil and whatever is in it clings to various internal parts, which it normally good, but air blasting concentrated dirty oil can't be a good thing. If I were doing this I would use low pressure (5-10 psi) and do it before draining the oil.

[Guest]

If you're worried about debris from the filter re-entering the engine, you should be draining the oil cooler as well.  Many Cessna aircraft have a drain on the cooler, many Pipers call for flushing the cooler and desludging the cranks shaft every 500 hours.  Far more debris will be trapped there than in the filter which has 30 hours on it.

Clarence

[RLCarter]

When I pulled my screen there was carbon in it, not the easiest to get to but it will be cleaned/checked during the annual as per Mooney's 100hr/Annual checkilist. As for blowing the oil out of the filter with compressed air, I'll pass. Oil enters the filter through the small holes around center mount, passes through the media (pleated paper) and returns to the oil sump through the center of the filter, so blowing the oil out with compressed air WILL blow some debris trapped in the filter back into the oil system. The filter is the last thing I pull off (after the oil sump has drained) this gives it plenty of time to drain back into the sump. I also cut the filter open after removing to check for metal, if all looks good oil is added back (no reason to add fresh oil to an engine that is about to to pulled off for repairs), the filter is installed while adding oil back. Is it messy?, it can be but if your carefull its not that bad, just clean up any oil that doesn't make it to your waste oil container. As a side note I wrap an old bath towel around the nose gear/wheel assembly (oil on the shock disks and front tire isn't good for the rubber).

[ArtVandelay]

If you're worried about debris from the filter re-entering the engine, you should be draining the oil cooler as well.  Many Cessna aircraft have a drain on the cooler, many Pipers call for flushing the cooler and desludging the cranks shaft every 500 hours.  Far more debris will be trapped there than in the filter which has 30 hours on it.
Clarence

The oil cooler is just a pipe where oil is circulated under pressure so where would the debris be collecting? I put in a 1/2 qt of Marvel Mystery Oil and fly the plane for an hour or so, I figure this will help with both cleaning and thinning the oil to allow for better draining.

[N201MKTurbo]

Every time you let your engine sit for a few hours the oil in the outside of the filter drains back into the sump. The filter traps debris in the media not in the can.

[Yetti]

So here is a question I have.   When y'all inspect your filter medium are they pristine or you do you find a shiny spec or two. The filter is there to catch stuff.   Should there be caught stuff in the filter? 

 

[Bob_Belville]

I changed the oil yesterday and dealt with 3 oil leaks - r&r the quick drain, replaced one valve cover gasket, R&R a plug on the rear of the engine that must not have been torqued properly. As per usual I'd estimate over half of the old oil made it to the drain pan.   I'm loading the pressure washer on the pick up this morning to clean the hangar floor around the nose gear.

[Danb]

MUST BE CATCHY I CHANGED MINE YESTERDAY ALSO, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN LEERY OT THE QUICK DRAIN, FOR NO REASON,EXCEPT ITS SO EASY TO OPEN I WORRY ABOUT IT OPENING IN FLIGHT.

[Bob_Belville]

28 minutes ago, Danb said:

MUST BE CATCHY I CHANGED MINE YESTERDAY ALSO, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN LEERY OT THE QUICK DRAIN, FOR NO REASON,EXCEPT ITS SO EASY TO OPEN I WORRY ABOUT IT OPENING IN FLIGHT.

Take it out and clean it good. Opening in flight is not at all likely but leaking is a real possibility. I took mine off because after several cycles it was still not sealed.

[DaV8or]

5 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The oil suction screen is meant to keep the large chunks out of the oil pump gears.  I've seen enough debris in the screen to starve to oil pump and cause low oil pressure.  Not cleaning it is tempting fate.

Older engines had a pressure screen in the past, most now have a full flow filter.  This is a different animal than the suction screen.

Clarence

So I looked up this suction screen in the Lycoming manual. If I understand it right, it screens out the raw oil from the sump, then sends the loosely filtered oil to the oil pump, the vacuum pump and the prop governor, then the oil goes to the oil filter and on to the other moving parts. Is this correct? If so, it seems that Lycoming doesn't think things like oil pumps, vacuum pumps, or prop governors to be very critical to flight, or they don't think the threat is all that great.

I have to figure that if chunks of debris are big enough and plentiful enough that it clogs the suction screen and starves the oil pump, you have some pretty big issues with your engine. Like you said, there should be a pretty significant drop in oil pressure. Fortunately I have a digital engine monitor that gives me alerts to oil pressure changes. Since I just finished changing the oil, I'm not checking that screen this time, but maybe next time. I'll see how tough it is.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, DaV8or said:

So I looked up this suction screen in the Lycoming manual. If I understand it right, it screens out the raw oil from the sump, then sends the loosely filtered oil to the oil pump, the vacuum pump and the prop governor, then the oil goes to the oil filter and on to the other moving parts. Is this correct? If so, it seems that Lycoming doesn't think things like oil pumps, vacuum pumps, or prop governors to be very critical to flight, or they don't think the threat is all that great.

I have to figure that if chunks of debris are big enough and plentiful enough that it clogs the suction screen and starves the oil pump, you have some pretty big issues with your engine. Like you said, there should be a pretty significant drop in oil pressure. Fortunately I have a digital engine monitor that gives me alerts to oil pressure changes. Since I just finished changing the oil, I'm not checking that screen this time, but maybe next time. I'll see how tough it is.

The oil suction screen filters large chunks which might be in the oil sump, before this oil is drawn into the oil pump.  ALL oil after the pump is filtered by either the pressure screen (common in older engines) or the full flow filter before it is returned to the engine oil system.  The only way that unfiltered oil can get into the engine is when the filter goes into bypass caused by either cold oil or a very dirty filter.

There are many examples of engines which have never had the suction screen removed and cleaned.  In my shop it is a test for junior apprentices to do the suction screen on a Mooney.

The engine I referred to with the clogged suction screen had a blown cylinder which caused large amounts carbon to build up in the screen.

Clarence 

[carusoam]

My O360 was a generator of carbon bits.  They would get collected on the screens. Removed at annual.

Best regards,

-a-