Blaming Pilots

[Mooneymite]

Fact 1: Boeing wants to sell more B-777's. An aircraft defect that causes a crash is not good for business.

Fact 2: Air Malaysia wants to sell more tickets. Shoddy maintenance/operational control is bad for business.

Fact 3: The pilots cannot presently defend themselves.

Solution: Throw "rennegade pilot" under the bus. Continue to sell airplanes and tickets!

[carusoam]

You left out all the military/radar operators...

Best regards,

-a-

[PTK]

Something just caught my attention.

The course change was entered in the plane's FMS BEFORE the final verbal communication of crew with ATC.

I think this is remarkable.

[DonMuncy]

Did anyone say how they knew the course change was made in the flight computer.

[PMcClure]

Did anyone say how they knew the course change was made in the flight computer.

I heard on one news show that it was believed to be pre-programmed because it was perfectly flown. 

[mulro767]

I heard on one news show that it was believed to be pre-programmed because it was perfectly flown.

If that was the case I bet it would be pretty easy to find the airplane. The news show is just keeping the story alive with this garbage.

[201er]

I heard on one news show that it was believed to be pre-programmed because it was perfectly flown. 

Yes, and as we have all learned, a 777 doesn't fly so well when hand flown by asian pilots. Maybe the auto pilot failed and that's why they couldn't maintain altitude within +/-20,000ft?

[kortopates]

If that was the case I bet it would be pretty easy to find the airplane. The news show is just keeping the story alive with this garbage.

That's not what's being reported. Prior to today, they only said it was deliberate because of the magnitude of the turn and they assumed the FMS was involved since they seemed to know Beijing was previously programmed. Today, they are reporting that the 1:07am ACRS message indicated the new course to the west was already on the FMS; which was ~12 min prior to their good night radio transmission. Note that apparently the source of this new info did not specify they got this from ACRS, only it was done at least 12 min prior. But others are saying that timeline matches the earlier ACRS msg and there would be no other way for the ground to learn that info. If this latest new "fact" survives it will take the investigation back to a pre-meditated mindset. Personally, I previously thought it was a catastrophic failure before but was skeptical of fire only because there should have been lots of ACRS messages denoting temperatures excursions and then fire before it could have failed due to the fire. Also it's hard to imagine that a fire that is so quickly debilitating could also allow the plane to continue to fly for another 7+ hrs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scottfromiowa]

Yes, and as we have all learned, a 777 doesn't fly so well when hand flown by asian pilots. Maybe the auto pilot failed and that's why they couldn't maintain altitude within +/-20,000ft?

NOT funny.

[DaV8or]

I asked this question about the fire theory on another pilot forum, so I might as well here too.

 

The theory goes that a fire is raging in the avionics bay, but the ill fated pilots manage to activate a pre-programmed emergency flight plan to the nearest, safest airport. Soon thereafter, the crew and all passengers are either passed out, or dead due to the fire.

 

If the fire continues on, how long until the autopilot and all aircraft controls are destroyed? Could the plane remain aloft for another four hours with no one flying, no engine controls and no autopilot? Would it not lose control and crash well before then?

 

If the fire goes out and the autopilot is saved, would not the plane be spotted flying nearly exactly overhead the intended emergency landing field?

[mulro767]

I asked this question about the fire theory on another pilot forum, so I might as well here too.

 

The theory goes that a fire is raging in the avionics bay, but the ill fated pilots manage to activate a pre-programmed emergency flight plan to the nearest, safest airport. Soon thereafter, the crew and all passengers are either passed out, or dead due to the fire.

 

If the fire continues on, how long until the autopilot and all aircraft controls are destroyed? Could the plane remain aloft for another four hours with no one flying, no engine controls and no autopilot? Would it not lose control and crash well before then?

 

If the fire goes out and the autopilot is saved, would not the plane be spotted flying nearly exactly overhead the intended emergency landing field?

Let's say you are flying your Mooney at 10,000' all trimmed up and stabilized. If you disconnect the autopilot and let go of all controls what would happen? Would it fall out of the sky? No, it would continue on. It probably wouldn't hold course or altitude very well.

A Boeing 777 is a very stable airplane and at cruise all trimmed up and stabilized, I believe it would continue to fly. It may climb or descend a bit which could explain FL450.

[N33GG]

I think our government knows exactly what happened. They are letting the media keep everybody busy with random wild theories, while the State Department is secretly working with the White House on a cover story that indicates the incident was not planned, but rather the result of an in-flight u-tube video that upset some otherwise peace loving passengers.

Somebody has to go to jail for a video again.

[Guest]

Yes, and as we have all learned, a 777 doesn't fly so well when hand flown by asian pilots. Maybe the auto pilot failed and that's why they couldn't maintain altitude within +/-20,000ft?

My Chinese wife and children don't see the humour.

If memory serves correctly fully half of the deaths in the Asiana crash were at the hands of the American "rescuers"

Clarence

[kortopates]

Let's say you are flying your Mooney at 10,000' all trimmed up and stabilized. If you disconnect the autopilot and let go of all controls what would happen? Would it fall out of the sky? No, it would continue on. It probably wouldn't hold course or altitude very well.

A Boeing 777 is a very stable airplane and at cruise all trimmed up and stabilized, I believe it would continue to fly. It may climb or descend a bit which could explain FL450.

Actually our Mooney's will enter a spiral in mere seconds without something to keep the wings level. Try it sometime. I would therefore assume a large commercial ac like the 777 would have systems to keep the wings level till commanded otherwise by pilot input?

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[jetdriven]

I wouldn't call Malaysians "Asians" per se. They more closely resemble Pacific Islanders but with the Muslim religion. Either way, they seem much less radical than Americans who blew up a Federal building in OKC, flew a Warrior into an IRS office, or shoot up schools, or movie theaters on occasion. But that's just me spending a year in Kuala Lumpur and flying for Malaysian Air Cargo.

And they don't have a drug problem over there. Although i did get offered some blow by a cab driver downtown. You can google the penalty for that.

[aviatoreb]

Yes, and as we have all learned, a 777 doesn't fly so well when hand flown by asian pilots. Maybe the auto pilot failed and that's why they couldn't maintain altitude within +/-20,000ft?

 

Did the birds teach you that "joke"?  :-/

[DonMuncy]

As far as flying "hands off", I suspect there are wide differences between planes and conditions (fuel levels in opposite wings, etc.) But it is my understanding that almost no plane will fly straight and level for any length of time without the use of an A/P or wing leveler.

[jetdriven]

Electric jets don't fly very long without 120v AC power.

[PTK]

Yes, and as we have all learned, a 777 doesn't fly so well when hand flown by asian pilots. Maybe the auto pilot failed and that's why they couldn't maintain altitude within +/-20,000ft?

Not so. Not so at all.

Don't be so fast to humiliate and deride others at their expense. These guys can fly circles around you. And they could teach you a thing or two if you weren't so cocky and disrespectful.

I know I certainly could stand to learn from them.

"Humility is not a virtue. It's the foundation of all virtues."

[fantom]

"Humility is not a virtue. It's the foundation of all virtues."

 

[kevinw]

I think at this point nothing is off the table. It could be an accident, a hijacking or, I hate to say it, a crime with pilot involvement. One thing that strikes me as odd is if this was some sort of hijacking / suicide mission, it would've ended soon without shutting down com equipment. The plane flew for hours, dodging radar. I believe there was / is a bigger plan; but I'm no expert...just my take with the info available.

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[201er]

Not so. Not so at all.

Don't be so fast to humiliate and deride others at their expense. These guys can fly circles around you. And they could teach you a thing or two if you weren't so cocky and disrespectful.

I know I certainly could stand to learn from them.

"Humility is not a virtue. It's the foundation of all virtues."

I'm sorry but crashing an airplane on a visual approach in VMC conditions simply because the autopilot didn't have an ILS to track is flat out stupid. I wouldn't want to learn anything from someone like that.

 

As for this time, I was just making a joke about how "perfectly flown" is automatically presumed to be done by auto pilot and not by hand. And the guys flying this one are either dead or at some remote strip collecting a hefty payout... in either case hardly something to epitomize.

[bnicolette]

Not so. Not so at all.

Don't be so fast to humiliate and deride others at their expense. These guys can fly circles around you. And they could teach you a thing or two if you weren't so cocky and disrespectful.

I know I certainly could stand to learn from them.

"Humility is not a virtue. It's the foundation of all virtues."

 

Right on Doc.

[kevinw]

201er made an arguably distasteful joke. We should cut him a little slack. I don't think he meant it the way a lot of us took it. Chalk it up to a bad joke.

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[bnicolette]

201er made an arguably distasteful joke. We should cut him a little slack. I don't think he meant it the way a lot of us took it. Chalk it up to a bad joke.

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Cut 201er slack.  NEVER.   You must be new.