Dumb SB 208B Question

[DaveAnderson]

Hi everyone, when looking through the SB 208B, if I have a M20K with S/N 25-1000 (example), does that mean that I should comply with the SB, or are those the exclusion lists?  Or does it mean that I just have to comply with Part B?

 

thanks,

David

 

MODELS AFFECTED:Part A only
All M20 Series air craft manufactured prior to Jan.1, 1976 excluding S/N’s listed under Part B.

Part B only
M20C S/N 20- 1186 thru 20- 1258;
M20F S/N 22- 1246, 22- 1306 thru 22- 1438;
M20J S/N 24- 0001 thru 24- 1607, 24- 3000 thru 24- 3017;
M20K S/N 25- 0001 thru 25- 1093.

[OR75]

if you are operating under Part 91, you don't need to comply with any SB

[stevesm20b]

What is SB208B?

[DaveAnderson]

Comply, no...but I'm pretty sure it's recommended.

[Danb]

I believe it is the inspection for corrosion, recommended or not a very good idea since you are not sure of the element your plane has been in for its life...great idea

[Marauder]

208 is the SB you do want to do. It is the as Dan mention the inspection for rust on the steel cage caused by water leaking in (like from around the window seals). It looks like you are excluded. My F falls in between the single serial number and the series next to it. I'm not sure why these were excluded, but if you haven't looked, it may be worthwhile to do so. Now you got me wondering. I'm pulling the SB to see what it says. Wonder if your cage is made of a different material.

[OR75]

I believe this specific SB was issued due to the use of a specific type of insulation material that would not let moisture evaporate leading to corrosion. 

 

Beyond that: it is a good idea to check corrosion not just by complying with SB 208B but by inspecting everywhere regularly (should be part of the annual deal)

 

If i was for the market for a plane and saw in the logs that this SB was complied with even recently, it would tell me nothing about corrosion. The owner may have flown in the meantime to Burningman and did not wash the plane since !!! 

 

 

For Part 91, SBs are not mandatory but every OEM issuing while will of course recommend it. You may even see some of them issuing Mandatory SBs !! 

 

That's usually when they have not been able to demonstrate to the FAA the need for an AD

[Alan Fox]

It is so easy to comply with , you would be a fool not to....

[DaveAnderson]

I was just confused about the "exclusion" list...which the way I read it, really means the inclusion list.  Either way, the inspection is valuable and I agree that it's not worth skimping on it.

 

Thanks

[mulro767]

On my pre-purchase inspection it was found that sb208 was not complied with. The owner said that it wasn't mandatory. Jim Teske of Daytona Aircraft Services disagreed and said it was in this case. There's so much mold that lived in the old insulation that it increased the risk of corrosion. Under the pilots storm window especially. Here my before and after. The previous owner paid for it. That was part of the deal.

I'd go ahead and do it.

[OR75]

The "inclusion" is related to whether a certain type of insulation was installed at the factory (based on  serial number). 

 

 

Complying with SB 208B at some point in time does not garantee a corrosion free aircraft

 

A good inspection for corrosion does not need to be following SB 208B. A good inspection for corrosion in my opinion should include looking at the tail cone tip, engine mounts etc ...(these are not in SB 208B)

 

Refering to SB 208 just looks good on a logbook.   ("Inspected as per SB 208B" instead of "inspected for corrosion") 

 

If you have concerns about corrosion, you should have the whole plane looked at (including spar, inside wings, tail cone tip, engine mount, , etc ....) remove all the panels that can be opened.

[jrwilson]

208 is really pretty easy to do, shouldn't take a mechanic who has done it before more than an hour.  There are a couple of panels under the back seat, pull those out, undo some bolts, put a magnet in and inspect for rust flakes.  Spray some anti-corrosion stuff in and put the bolts back in and panels back on and you're done.

[Glenn]

Do yourself a favor, and if you have the old yellow insulation, or perhaps insulation that used to be yellow and is now black, get rid of every last bit of it.  It will hold moisture that eventually can lead to corrosion, mold, sickness and expense.  It is easy to replace with proper closed-cell foam and you will avoid likely trouble in the future.  

[Ron McBride]

My IA did the inspection, about an hour at the most.   I did the insulation myself with supervision. No big deal.  I just cut the material, put in place. If 2 pieces fit, I did that also, maybe??? quiter???

 

Do it, it is not hard.

 

Ron

[aaronk25]

Just be mindful about stacking up the insulation in areas of arm rests as the arm rests recess in between tubes and if you double stack you will loose useful cabin width.

[Shadrach]

We pulled a bunch of that yellow insulation out of our F.  The tubes were fine, but the paint was starting to compromise.  I think this is exacerbated by fuel leaks. If fuel finds it's way into the cabin, the vapors will weaken the paint the factory used to cover the tubes on the older birds. Once it's breached, any moisture in the insulation is held directly against metal and it starts to rust. I cleaned mine with MEK, a bit of steel wool and emery cloth, then repainted with a more durable epoxy based paint using zinc primer. Finished off with new insulation throughout. Looks as good today as it did 8 years ago. If I had not taken care of it when I did, I doubt I'd be able to say that.  This is a bird that has been inside for all of its life excluding transient overnights.  If it lived outside, I'm betting it would have been much worse.  

Edited September 14, 2015 by Shadrach

[kmyfm20s]

What type or brand of insulation and thickness is a recommended replacement?

[carusoam]

So Dave are you buying a plane?

Search for Pre Purchase Inspection, or PPI.

You might be looking for more than just the common ailments of old birds kept outside...

There was a time when people kept planes outside without covers on them.

Best regards,

-a-

[PTK]

if you are operating under Part 91, you don't need to comply with any SB

Really?

I should've known...part 135 lives are more valuable than part 91! What was I thinking!

Personally, I wouldn't even consider buying an airplane that didn't have SB's complied with.

Period.

As far as SB 208, I'd make sure both A and B are complied with in their entirety.

[OR75]

Really?

I should've known...part 135 lives are more valuable than part 91! What was I thinking!

Personally, I wouldn't even consider buying an airplane that didn't have SB's complied with.

Period.

As far as SB 208, I'd make sure both A and B are complied with in their entirety.

that's right. you have to comply with ADs.

I am not saying you should not comply with any SBs. Many are easy to comply with and/or make sense. between Mooney and lycoming (for a J) there are a lot of them and I would be curious to see if there is an entry in your log for each and all of them.

Life is not more valuable under part 91 or 135 or 121. But the FAA is more concerned about protecting the passenger who buys a ticket from the airline , than the guy who flies his own built experimental.

part 135 for example have a 100 hours inspection. Part 91: it is annual , even if you fly a lot more than 100 hours in a year.

as far as this particular SB 208, if i saw in the log book that it was complied more than say 2 years, it would tell me nothing about how corroded or not the plane is.

[DaveAnderson]

So Dave are you buying a plane?

Search for Pre Purchase Inspection, or PPI.

You might be looking for more than just the common ailments of old birds kept outside...

There was a time when people kept planes outside without covers on them.

Best regards,

-a-

 

Yeah, I'm looking at the 231's.  Flew one today that was really nice, and i've narrowed it down to a couple different options. 

 

-David

[carusoam]

David,

The PPI is a method of protecting your financial interest. SBs and ADs will be part of a proper PPI.

MooneyService centers are known to be a good source of PPIs.

Some planes rust, some planes leak, some planes have engine challenges. The PPI minimizes this happening to you...

You can search this site for experiences regarding the PPI.

Good luck with your purchase,

-a-