Tapping brakes on gear retract?

[Pinecone]

Sorry, no tactile keys.

I wish I could find a desktop/laptop HP-41 program.  I use Excalibre, which doesn't look like a -41, but has all the functions needed and is an RPN calculator.

[EricJ]

58 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Sorry, no tactile keys.

I wish I could find a desktop/laptop HP-41 program.  I use Excalibre, which doesn't look like a -41, but has all the functions needed and is an RPN calculator.

Free42 runs on desktop/laptops and there's a 41 skin available.  I use it all the time with the 42S skin.

https://thomasokken.com/free42/

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

Free42 runs on desktop/laptops and there's a 41 skin available.  I use it all the time with the 42S skin.

https://thomasokken.com/free42/

Great, thanks.

[0TreeLemur]

12 hours ago, EricJ said:

Free42 runs on desktop/laptops

There is a Tcl/Tk 15C emulator that I use on Linux.  Daily.

[0TreeLemur]

Back on topic, on takeoff Saturday I tapped the brakes before raising the gear.   I noticed a challenge.

Just before I advance power to take off, always I move my feet so that they are pressing only on the bottom of the rudder pedals.  That keeps me from inadvertently applying any brake while on the roll.

To apply brake, I had to move my feet back up to the middle of the rudder pedals.   This movement required me to release the significant amount of right rudder needed to keep the ball centered.  That caused my climb to wobble  in a very un-aviation like way.

How do other brake tappers deal with this?  Sliding the right foot up the rudder pedal while pressing hard on climb out just doesn't seem doable.

[Pinecone]

I had my brake pedals adjusted so I have to consciously rotate the top of my foot forward to apply brakes.

Unfortunately, to do so I had to get two adjustable brake links.  I got one from Lasar for about $300, the second had to come from the factory, through an MSC and was $600.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

I had my brake pedals adjusted so I have to consciously rotate the top of my foot forward to apply brakes.

Unfortunately, to do so I had to get two adjustable brake links.  I got one from Lasar for about $300, the second had to come from the factory, through an MSC and was $600.

That seems to be an issue with the master cylinders used in the Encore. Not sure about other models, but I think all the M20Js have adjustable master cylinder piston rods.

[Pinecone]

Mine is a 252 converted to Encore.  New master cylinders were installed with fixed links.  

The brake pedals were such that there was no way to use rudder without adding brakes until I totally repositioned my feet.

[Joshua Blackh4t]

13 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Back on topic, on takeoff Saturday I tapped the brakes before raising the gear.   I noticed a challenge.

Just before I advance power to take off, always I move my feet so that they are pressing only on the bottom of the rudder pedals.  That keeps me from inadvertently applying any brake while on the roll.

To apply brake, I had to move my feet back up to the middle of the rudder pedals.   This movement required me to release the significant amount of right rudder needed to keep the ball centered.  That caused my climb to wobble  in a very un-aviation like way.

How do other brake tappers deal with this?  Sliding the right foot up the rudder pedal while pressing hard on climb out just doesn't seem doable.

Curious, I understand being conscious of not braking on landing, but it I didn't think it was a factor on take off. 

I prefer to be able to brake quickly in case of an aborted take off which then makes tapping easy. 

[r0ckst4r]

1 hour ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Curious, I understand being conscious of not braking on landing, but it I didn't think it was a factor on take off. 

I prefer to be able to brake quickly in case of an aborted take off which then makes tapping easy. 

You definitely don't want to brake on take-off.   Just ask the NTSB.

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/farmington-connecticut-plane-crash-2021-killed-2-boston-doctors-caused-by-parking-brake/

[201Mooniac]

I guess just having really large feet means you learn to tilt your foot to not hit the brake but I can't seem to get my foot low enough on the pedal to not be able to tap the brakes when I want to.

[Hank]

30 minutes ago, 201Mooniac said:

I guess just having really large feet means you learn to tilt your foot to not hit the brake but I can't seem to get my foot low enough on the pedal to not be able to tap the brakes when I want to.

My feet are small enough that if I make sure my heels are on the carpet, then my toes are off the brakes. Every takeoff, every landing, that's a special point of attention. 

In cruise, it doesn't matter.

[Joshua Blackh4t]

5 hours ago, r0ckst4r said:

You definitely don't want to brake on take-off.   Just ask the NTSB.

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/farmington-connecticut-plane-crash-2021-killed-2-boston-doctors-caused-by-parking-brake/

Ok, fair, but I'm sure I'd notice if I started to touch the brakes on take off. They aren't agressive enough to cause a loss of control, just a minor delay in acceleration.

On landing it is easy to accidentally be holding them on, and could cause a blow out with not much warning.

So I'll stand by my position that if I can taxi to the runway, I already have my feet in the right spot to take off and to tap if needed.

It helps that 90% of time I fly in socks/bare feet. 

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

It helps that 90% of time I fly in socks/bare feet. 

This is on my list of things to try.  I know a couple of guys who do it.

[MikeOH]

48 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

This is on my list of things to try.  I know a couple of guys who do it.

Every time I think about flying bare-foot I picture myself, possibly injured, trying to climb out of the wreckage and run away from the plane (images of flames, sharp torn aluminum edges, pointy things on the ground...) and the desire disappears from my mind

[Hank]

9 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Every time I think about flying bare-foot I picture myself, possibly injured, trying to climb out of the wreckage and run away from the plane (images of flames, sharp torn aluminum edges, pointy things on the ground...) and the desire disappears from my mind

I just think about those cold aluminum rudder pedals, and the knee vent blowing air in. What's the OAT at altitude? 50-what?

No thanks. 

[Will.iam]

The foot funk alone will make you go on oxygen early to avoid passing out. 

[Fly Boomer]

7 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Every time I think about flying bare-foot I picture myself, possibly injured, trying to climb out of the wreckage and run away from the plane (images of flames, sharp torn aluminum edges, pointy things on the ground...) and the desire disappears from my mind

Hmmm.  I hadn't fully considered the implications.  PLAN B is a pair of "flying shoes" with paper-thin super-flexible soles that will allow me to more easily feel the pedals and keep my toes curled back.  Maybe not ideal for fire walking or traversing fields of aluminum shards, but better than barefoot.

[201Steve]

It’s clear by the responses here, who drove a manual transmission muscle car in their youth. Iykyk. 

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Hmmm.  I hadn't fully considered the implications.  PLAN B is a pair of "flying shoes" with paper-thin super-flexible soles that will allow me to more easily feel the pedals and keep my toes curled back.  Maybe not ideal for fire walking or traversing fields of aluminum shards, but better than barefoot.

Race shoes are made with thin soles so that you can feel the pedals (particularly brake pressure) better.   Cheap racers sometimes use wrestling or climbing shoes on track days, and there are other alternatives.   If you want some nice, useful shoes with suitably thin soles that you can wear more places, Piloti started out making just race shoes and expanded into other areas, including shoes for aviation.  Sometimes they set up at shows (e.g., the Barrett-Jackson auction) where you can see the differences in their various shoes.    I've had a couple pair of their race shoes and they were great.    They'd probably fit this application pretty well.

 

[Fly Boomer]

46 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Race shoes are made with thin soles so that you can feel the pedals (particularly brake pressure) better.   Cheap racers sometimes use wrestling or climbing shoes on track days, and there are other alternatives.   If you want some nice, useful shoes with suitably thin soles that you can wear more places, Piloti started out making just race shoes and expanded into other areas, including shoes for aviation.  Sometimes they set up at shows (e.g., the Barrett-Jackson auction) where you can see the differences in their various shoes.    I've had a couple pair of their race shoes and they were great.    They'd probably fit this application pretty well.

 

So far, this is what I'm thinking:

https://www.merrell.com/US/en/vapor-glove-6/56470M.html?dwvar_56470M_color=J067663#cgid=vapor-glove&start=1

With reviews like:

- Not made for trails
- I felt every little pebble
- Not going to last very long

these may be just the ticket.  I don't plan to wear them outside the airplane.

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, 201Steve said:

It’s clear by the responses here, who drove a manual transmission muscle car in their youth. Iykyk. 

Were Corvettes considered muscle cars?

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

So far, this is what I'm thinking:

https://www.merrell.com/US/en/vapor-glove-6/56470M.html?dwvar_56470M_color=J067663#cgid=vapor-glove&start=1

With reviews like:

- Not made for trails
- I felt every little pebble
- Not going to last very long

these may be just the ticket.  I don't plan to wear them outside the airplane.

Rock climbers like shoes that are pliable and give a lot of feeling, too, so those sorts of shoes might work well!

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Rock climbers like shoes that are pliable and give a lot of feeling, too, so those sorts of shoes might work well!

I don't understand the need for super thin soles to drive or fly. I've done plenty of both [living in WV for flight school and seven years of Mooney ownership] wearing insulated hiking boots . . . .

What's the need to "feel" the pedals so much????? I can tell where on the pedals my feet are while wearing any shoes or boots that I own, and I've never worn anything like these.

[EricJ]

22 minutes ago, Hank said:

I don't understand the need for super thin soles to drive or fly. I've done plenty of both [living in WV for flight school and seven years of Mooney ownership] wearing insulated hiking boots . . . .

What's the need to "feel" the pedals so much????? I can tell where on the pedals my feet are while wearing any shoes or boots that I own, and I've never worn anything like these.

For some people in some applications better feel gives better feedback for finer control.   If you don't need it, it's not an issue.