Fixed and Variable Costs for Mooney F/J models

[Obie]

I am a newbie to this forum and joined with intent to get educated by you all!  It's been a dream for me to own my own airplane. I am heavily leaning towards a Mooney due to speed and efficiency. I've been looking at Cessna 182s and Beech Bonanza straight tails as well, but speed of getting A to B is more attractive in a Mooney. I keep debating about numbers with my wife and need some expert inputs from the Mooney community regarding my budget for ownership. Here it goes...

FIXED Annual Costs: 

-Hangar: $6,000

-Insurance: $2,800 (I am an ATP, CFI, CFII with about 5,000 hrs of complex, multiengine time, but only about 200 hrs of single engine time)

-Annual: $4,000 (just for diagnostics, not sure how much to budget for 'discoveries' during annuals)

- Oil Changes: $300/year if flying 100 hrs per year and doing oil changes every 50 hours

-Spectographic Oil Analysis: $250

-Savvy Mx Program: $750

-XM Satellite Wx subscription: unknown

-Annual Taxes: unknown (plan will be based initially in KLZU, Gwinnett Co, GA, but willing to consider other locations if better taxes)

TOTAL Fixed Costs: $14,100 (not including xm subscription or annual taxes)

VARIABLE Costs (flying 100 hrs per year):

Fuel: 10 gph x $6/gal = $60/hr

Oil: 0.4 qts/hr x $8/qt = $3/hr

Engine and Airframe Maintenance: $40/hr (assuming engine overhaul cost of $40,000/2000 TBO = $20/hr, but only 1000 hrs left till TBO, therefore, $40/hour)

TOTAL Variable Costs: $103/hr

 

Can you take a stab at these costs and advise if certain line items need adjustment or if I am missing any items from my budget?

Thank you all for your help!

Obie

[EricJ]

The insurance and annual may be high depending on the airplane and maintenance.   You forgot any subscriptions for gps nav databases, etc., if needed.

You should be able to find out hangar availability and costs in your area to narrow that down if your $6k was a wag.   It's less than that here, and I know a bit more in some areas.

[1964-M20E]

Sounds pretty good. 

Airport location will impact hangar costs significantly.  I drive 40 minutes to not pay a lot in hangar or tie down.  I'm paying for my lease and I own the hanger the same amount I was paying for outside tie down with about the same drive.  This is still half of the ammunt to tie down at an airport 15 minutes away. 

GPS subscription $550.

$4k on annual should take car of any small issues as well as the inspection.    If you are mechanically inclined and looking to keep costs down and are able to find someone who does owner assisted annual the $4k can be reduced after the first couple of years.  Once you know what to open up clean and lube and what is legally permitted by the FAA regs you can have the grunt work of the annual done before the mechanic gets there.

This process can work too if the shop doesn't want you to do owner assisted due to liability.  Prep the plane  and make the appropriate log book entry about cleaning plugs, oil change lube and grease etc. before towing to the shop.  Leave inspection covers on cowling off and put it all back together ate the inspection.  They may still balk at this approach but worth a shot.

[MikeOH]

I think you have reasonable starting numbers.

After 6 years of owning my F, I am at $17K per year average.  That number is ALL in; shop towels, tools that I wouldn't have purchase if not for the plane, database/Foreflight/Savvy subscriptions, cleaning supplies, EVERYTHING!  I do only fly about 75-85 hours per year, however.

Insurance, given your experience, seems high.  Get in touch with @Parker_Woodruff and get a real quote.  Hangar is super variable depending on where you are.  My hangar at POC (southern California) runs $353 per month.

[Ragsf15e]

46 minutes ago, Obie said:

I am a newbie to this forum and joined with intent to get educated by you all!  It's been a dream for me to own my own airplane. I am heavily leaning towards a Mooney due to speed and efficiency. I've been looking at Cessna 182s and Beech Bonanza straight tails as well, but speed of getting A to B is more attractive in a Mooney. I keep debating about numbers with my wife and need some expert inputs from the Mooney community regarding my budget for ownership. Here it goes...

FIXED Annual Costs: 

-Hangar: $6,000

-Insurance: $2,800 (I am an ATP, CFI, CFII with about 5,000 hrs of complex, multiengine time, but only about 200 hrs of single engine time)

-Annual: $4,000 (just for diagnostics, not sure how much to budget for 'discoveries' during annuals)

- Oil Changes: $300/year if flying 100 hrs per year and doing oil changes every 50 hours

-Spectographic Oil Analysis: $250

-Savvy Mx Program: $750

-XM Satellite Wx subscription: unknown

-Annual Taxes: unknown (plan will be based initially in KLZU, Gwinnett Co, GA, but willing to consider other locations if better taxes)

TOTAL Fixed Costs: $14,100 (not including xm subscription or annual taxes)

VARIABLE Costs (flying 100 hrs per year):

Fuel: 10 gph x $6/gal = $60/hr

Oil: 0.4 qts/hr x $8/qt = $3/hr

Engine and Airframe Maintenance: $40/hr (assuming engine overhaul cost of $40,000/2000 TBO = $20/hr, but only 1000 hrs left till TBO, therefore, $40/hour)

TOTAL Variable Costs: $103/hr

 

Can you take a stab at these costs and advise if certain line items need adjustment or if I am missing any items from my budget?

Thank you all for your help!

Obie

A lot of us start out doing the analysis you’re doing.  You’ll come to find out a few things… first, you can add it all up perfect and then get hit with a prop overhaul or cam shaft corrosion and it’s a $7k speed bump.  What most people do is go with a yearly average and it’s around $15-$22,000 all in.  There could be huge variations, but there’s your average.  Hangar costs are really based on location and circumstances, so that might have some effect.

Purchase price will likely be overshadowed by operating costs after a few years of ownership and you will likely get back the purchase price but not the operating cost.

You should try to buy an airplane In very good shape which will probably increase the price but keep the maintenance costs down early in ownership.  First annuals have been known to cost $10k or more.  Finally, finding a maintenance shop that lets you help can really keep costs down and teach you about the airplane.

[Pinecone]

Insurance will vary with purchase price.  Most of the insurance cost is hull.  Higher hull value, higher insurance.   Also time in Make AND Model helps.  Once I hit 100 hours, my insurance dropped 10% (at the next renewal).

And to be honest, I would add a slush factor for things you will want to do but aren't mandatory (but some may be a VERY good idea).  About the time I bought my airplane was Oshkosh, so lots of sales.  So I got a better engine monitor/analyzer to help prolong the life of the engine.  LED landing/taxi lights, and inertial reel harnesses for the front seats (the harnesses were original 1986 so this was in the VERY good idea category).  Over the first year, I have spent as much on optional things as I did on required/very good idea things.  But that included the pre-buy and first annual.

Oh, don't forget the price of a GOOD pre-buy.  That could save you a LOT of money and headaches.

[hubcap]

My fixed and variable costs put me at ~$25k/yr for 150 hrs of flying…assuming nothing breaks. This is in a K 231.

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, Obie said:

I am a newbie to this forum and joined with intent to get educated by you all!

You already have a selection of answers.  I just want to add a welcome to MooneySpace!

Also, I would add that you are on the right track trying to calculate Total Cost of Ownership.  Hangar costs are highly variable, as are insurance costs.  I would anticipate that just the inspection part of an annual would be less, but there will always be repairs.  The bottom line is that it's good to have a plan, but these things almost never progress according to the plan -- some things will be more; some less.

If you want to go fast, you came to the right place.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Depending on aircraft value and limits of liability insurance needed, I'd put the insurance in a range of $1500 to $2200 but maybe $3000 if you needed a "smooth" limit and don't have any model experience.

[TNIndy]

I think your costs look a little high in a couple places but once you add back GPS, Foreflight, other charts etc. It probably evens out. (I have separate charts for the Dynon and Avidyne)

The real question, as others have pointed out, is what do things cost during the first year. I think the shop that did my prebuy was pretty good and the shop that did my first annual. Things still failed shortly after both that added up quick. It feels like the more I fly, the less I spend in maintenance if that makes any since. Also, fix each item as it comes up, things add up if you wait. 

[WilliamR]

Summary: I think your cost modeling is pretty dead on. I track my costs very, very closely after 20+yrs of Mooney ownership. 

Good luck on hangar space in ATL metro. $6,000/yr is maybe a little light. I didn't think LZU had any hangar space avail. and tie downs were thin, but that's a quick call to see avail and rates. Isn't Harbour Air something in the $550+ range for a hangar?

Annual (inspection only) is a bit heavy. Probably $2,750 on average. However, $4,000 probably is well loaded for one time items plus routine maintenance costs. I split out annual cost (about $2,750) from other routine maint. like 500/hr mag inspections, vacuum pumps, etc that have short lives and then use the accrual method to derive an hourly cost of those things.

Oil analysis is likely a little high. Should be about $35-50/oil change.

My XM subscription is about $75/month using the boat subscription (same functionality as the aviator subscription), but honestly, I can't figure out what subscription they are charging me for (nor can they it seems).

As noted, assume about $450-$550/yr for GPS subscription.

Annual taxes for a $100,000 plane will run you about $2,000/yr. I think my bill is closer to $2,800/yr for an '86 252 in Chamblee/Dekalb County.

Hope this helps.

William

[A64Pilot]

I think your numbers are close, people still do XM WX? ADSB in gets you that.

I think your overhaul number is low by at least 10K myself, but I also think it sort of evens out, your high a little here and low a little there but overall I think you’ve got it figured out.

Insurence wise I think we are in the same boat, I don’t think it’s coming down, at some point I think hours don’t matter, it is what it is. I expected mine to go down year two and it went up I think 10%.

In truth I don’t track expenses, in part I guess because I don’t want to know, but also as I own my hangar and am an A&P/IA that helps too of course.

I’m convinced from what I hear hangars cost that buying in a fly-in community saves money in the long run, at first I thought it would be way more expensive, but after I think about hangar rent, driving back and forth etc. I think it’s the opposite.

I was paying $125 a month for a brand new T hangar in Camilla Ga., and to be honest the tax man never bothered, so in the Country is WAY cheaper.

Edited July 12, 2023 by A64Pilot

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I have never added it up.  It is best that way.  

THIS is the best advice.

[Obie]

3 hours ago, WilliamR said:

Summary: I think your cost modeling is pretty dead on. I track my costs very, very closely after 20+yrs of Mooney ownership. 

Good luck on hangar space in ATL metro. $6,000/yr is maybe a little light. I didn't think LZU had any hangar space avail. and tie downs were thin, but that's a quick call to see avail and rates. Isn't Harbour Air something in the $550+ range for a hangar?

Annual (inspection only) is a bit heavy. Probably $2,750 on average. However, $4,000 probably is well loaded for one time items plus routine maintenance costs. I split out annual cost (about $2,750) from other routine maint. like 500/hr mag inspections, vacuum pumps, etc that have short lives and then use the accrual method to derive an hourly cost of those things.

Oil analysis is likely a little high. Should be about $35-50/oil change.

My XM subscription is about $75/month using the boat subscription (same functionality as the aviator subscription), but honestly, I can't figure out what subscription they are charging me for (nor can they it seems).

As noted, assume about $450-$550/yr for GPS subscription.

Annual taxes for a $100,000 plane will run you about $2,000/yr. I think my bill is closer to $2,800/yr for an '86 252 in Chamblee/Dekalb County.

Hope this helps.

William

Hi William,

Very helpful data, thank you! Sounds like you are at PDK. I’ve never flown a Mooney, would you be up for showing me around yours? I am in Suwanee.

Trying to figure out a way to DM so I can talk privately with others in this forum. 
 

Thanks again!

Obie

[Obie]

8 hours ago, hubcap said:

My fixed and variable costs put me at ~$25k/yr for 150 hrs of flying…assuming nothing breaks. This is in a K 231.

Thanks Hubcap! That’s a good round figure to plan for!

[icurnmedic]

Hanger in NC ,KMRN is $275/month.

Insurance went up to $3100 this past year  . I’m almost 300 hours in type/model so who knows what that expense will be for you. 

I , too ,subscribe to the don’t add it up policy. Otherwise I would logically need to sell the plane. 
I just pay as I go, and try to stay ahead of any maintenance issues.

Hope you get your Mooney!

[RoundTwo]

Double your first year costs and then throw in some more for good measure. There are going to be things you want to do for the plane and then the things that need to be done that you will find out later the previous owner neglected to do. Me, I just replaced 1987 motor mounts. 

[67 m20F chump]

19 hours ago, WilliamR said:

Summary: I think your cost modeling is pretty dead on. I track my costs very, very closely after 20+yrs of Mooney ownership. 

Good luck on hangar space in ATL metro. $6,000/yr is maybe a little light. I didn't think LZU had any hangar space avail. and tie downs were thin, but that's a quick call to see avail and rates. Isn't Harbour Air something in the $550+ range for a hangar?

Annual (inspection only) is a bit heavy. Probably $2,750 on average. However, $4,000 probably is well loaded for one time items plus routine maintenance costs. I split out annual cost (about $2,750) from other routine maint. like 500/hr mag inspections, vacuum pumps, etc that have short lives and then use the accrual method to derive an hourly cost of those things.

Oil analysis is likely a little high. Should be about $35-50/oil change.

My XM subscription is about $75/month using the boat subscription (same functionality as the aviator subscription), but honestly, I can't figure out what subscription they are charging me for (nor can they it seems).

As noted, assume about $450-$550/yr for GPS subscription.

Annual taxes for a $100,000 plane will run you about $2,000/yr. I think my bill is closer to $2,800/yr for an '86 252 in Chamblee/Dekalb County.

Hope this helps.

William

10% of the yearly cost of having your airplane is tax.  That is crazy.

[Pinecone]

WOW, that knocks out Georgia as a possible long term retirement destination.  Paying 2% of the value of the airplane per year is nuts.

[Justin Schmidt]

23 hours ago, WilliamR said:

Summary: I think your cost modeling is pretty dead on. I track my costs very, very closely after 20+yrs of Mooney ownership. 

Good luck on hangar space in ATL metro. $6,000/yr is maybe a little light. I didn't think LZU had any hangar space avail. and tie downs were thin, but that's a quick call to see avail and rates. Isn't Harbour Air something in the $550+ range for a hangar?

Annual (inspection only) is a bit heavy. Probably $2,750 on average. However, $4,000 probably is well loaded for one time items plus routine maintenance costs. I split out annual cost (about $2,750) from other routine maint. like 500/hr mag inspections, vacuum pumps, etc that have short lives and then use the accrual method to derive an hourly cost of those things.

Oil analysis is likely a little high. Should be about $35-50/oil change.

My XM subscription is about $75/month using the boat subscription (same functionality as the aviator subscription), but honestly, I can't figure out what subscription they are charging me for (nor can they it seems).

As noted, assume about $450-$550/yr for GPS subscription.

Annual taxes for a $100,000 plane will run you about $2,000/yr. I think my bill is closer to $2,800/yr for an '86 252 in Chamblee/Dekalb County.

Hope this helps.

William

You have annual taxes, bummer.

[Pinecone]

Maryland is known for taxes, but a few years ago dropped even the use/sales tax on buying an airplane/

 

[PT20J]

I echo what others have said about the first year... or two. Put off upgrades and save the money for unexpected expenses. The previous owner may have deferred nonessential maintenance as they were thinking about selling, and/or may not have been flying much anymore which might be the motivation to sell. Funny things happen when the new owner starts flying the airplane a lot, and they always expensive.

[larryb]

Can you buy a full tank of fuel and not worry about the cost? Can you buy a new engine and not lose sleep? Will you compare the cost of an airline ticket vs flying your plane? If you can answer yes, yes, no then you can afford the plane.

[RoundTwo]

On 7/13/2023 at 3:49 PM, PT20J said:

Funny things happen when the new owner starts flying the airplane a lot, and they always expensive.

Yes, yes they are. 

[RoundTwo]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:16 AM, Pinecone said:

WOW, that knocks out Georgia as a possible long term retirement destination.  Paying 2% of the value of the airplane per year is nuts.

Georgia is a horrible state to live in. We have heat, humidity, bugs, crime, taxes, snowmagedden, snowpocalypse, tornadoes, occasional hurricanes, drought and torrential rain. No one in their right mind should consider Georgia as a retirement destination. California sounds like a much better place for retirement. I hear there is a good supply of available homes.