GAMI Unleaded gets approval

[PT20J]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Interesting question on transferring the STC to another engine.  Either another of the same or a different dash number.

And if the STC is specific to that engine, can you transfer it if you sell the engine?

STC are considered major modifications by the FAA - that’s why the 337 is required. Once installed, an STC becomes part of the airframe or engine regardless of who purchased it. 

[Pinecone]

3 hours ago, PT20J said:

STC are considered major modifications by the FAA - that’s why the 337 is required. Once installed, an STC becomes part of the airframe or engine regardless of who purchased it. 

But THAT engine?  So if you do a Factory Reman or New engine, you have to purchase the STC again?

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

But THAT engine?  So if you do a Factory Reman or New engine, you have to purchase the STC again?

Engines have separate logbooks from airframes, so maybe that's why they're doing it separately.   An STC on an engine would stay with the engine with that logbook if it is an STC to the engine TCDS, but it might be subject to potential installation restrictions in the STC for eligible airframes.   If they're issuing separate STCs for the engine and airframes TCDSs that might explain the convoluted path that is being taken.    It might also mean that if you swap out an engine due a catastrophic failure or something you may have to need to buy another STC for that engine.

I don't know for certain, it's just a potential reason why they may be charging per airframe and per engine.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

But THAT engine?  So if you do a Factory Reman or New engine, you have to purchase the STC again?

I would think so because it is a different engine. I wonder if there is a way to transfer it in the case where the original engine is destroyed?

[ragedracer1977]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

I would think so because it is a different engine. I wonder if there is a way to transfer it in the case where the original engine is destroyed?

Nope. GAMI said over on beechtalk that you’d have you buy a new STC .

The only way I’ll pay over an AMU for the privilege to buy more expensive fuel is if I absolutely have to to continue flying.  

I’ve never seen anyone dipping tanks at the self serve.

[Will.iam]

Don’t know why the over 1 amu. They quoted me $375 for the engine and $50 for the airframe. Maybe the $50 covers the cost of all the stickers you have to put on fuel fill holes as they asked me how many fill ports i had. 

[EricJ]

3 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Don’t know why the over 1 amu. They quoted me $375 for the engine and $50 for the airframe. Maybe the $50 covers the cost of all the stickers you have to put on fuel fill holes as they asked me how many fill ports i had. 

His airplane has two large engines.

[Will.iam]

5 minutes ago, EricJ said:

His airplane has two large engines.

Oh. I just assumed quoting on a mooney forum he had a single, makes sense now. 

[N201MKTurbo]

33 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Oh. I just assumed quoting on a mooney forum he had a single, makes sense now. 

He used to have a beautiful M20C.

[ragedracer1977]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

He used to have a beautiful M20C.

Like you said, the pricing structure seems so inverted. I’m sure GAMI is going to make something per gallon of fuel.  
 

my old C would have cost like $400 for the STC.  3 times less than the 310.  
 

yet, on average, my 310 burns about 4 times the fuel.  So I have to pay more to pay more?

i don’t really understand their pricing model, much less requiring everyone to buy ANOTHER STC if they get a new engine.  Since my engines have less life in front of them than behind them, I’ll definitely wait until at least it’s time for overhaul.  

[Will.iam]

It’s like the ink jet printer. They could give away the printer and still make money off the ink cartridges alone but why pass up free money. Charge them for the printer too. 

[carusoam]

In a similar fashion….

The 310hp upgrade for the LB’s IO550 were two different STCs…

One for the prop and one for the airframe…

It confused the customers, and annoyed them at the same time…. While inspiring them seek alternatives…

 

The guy selling the 310hp STC is a wise businessman… and he simplified it to one STC required…

 

Two STCs for one change comes across as double dipping…

Especially since our airframes didn’t actually see any testing of the new fuel.

I’ll be waiting until I have to…  typical aviation change… probably take a year or two to become usable… starting on the west coast…

PP thoughts only…

-a-

[ilovecornfields]

I’m curious how they’re marketing Swift 94UL given a (supposedly) superior product. I was pretty disappointed that the airport I fly into regularly just announced they’re getting the Swift product since I can use it on my Ovation and I don’t see them offering 94UL and 100UL. I get the feeling they’re just going to stop carrying 100LL and tell me I can either buy 94UL or go somewhere else.

Hopefully we can count on the trusty ol’ NOTAM system to keep us updated with the information we need. No way that could ever fail us and leave us stranded with no fuel.

[N201MKTurbo]

5 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I’m curious how they’re marketing Swift 94UL given a (supposedly) superior product. I was pretty disappointed that the airport I fly into regularly just announced they’re getting the Swift product since I can use it on my Ovation and I don’t see them offering 94UL and 100UL. I get the feeling they’re just going to stop carrying 100LL and tell me I can either buy 94UL or go somewhere else.

Hopefully we can count on the trusty ol’ NOTAM system to keep us updated with the information we need. No way that could ever fail us and leave us stranded with no fuel.

I was talking to the inspector at the FSDO a while back and bitched about the new AD software. He went on a tirade about the millennials back in DC screwing up the computer system. He said we don't get to see half of it, they have to deal with it every day.

[Pinecone]

Everyone assumes that it was up to GAMI to make the STC engine serial number specific.   

As for the airframe STC, FAA probably required that to put the stickers on.

FYI, it seems the Swift STC is also specific to a specific airframe and engine:

"Each FOREVER Avgas STC Certificate holder will receive private instructions to register their aircraft and engine in Swift Fuels’ database.
Once the purchase is complete and the aircraft / engine is registered...."

As for the pricing model, GAMI has always said it would be similar to other alternate fuel STCs like MOGAS, which a priced based on HP.

I would suspect that most FBOs would rather carry G100UL over 94UL due to the larger market.  EVERY piston aircraft can use G100UL.  Many cannot use 94UL.   And the ones that cannot use 94UL use more fuel, so higher sales.

[aviatoreb]

39 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Everyone assumes that it was up to GAMI to make the STC engine serial number specific.   

As for the airframe STC, FAA probably required that to put the stickers on.

FYI, it seems the Swift STC is also specific to a specific airframe and engine:

"Each FOREVER Avgas STC Certificate holder will receive private instructions to register their aircraft and engine in Swift Fuels’ database.
Once the purchase is complete and the aircraft / engine is registered...."

As for the pricing model, GAMI has always said it would be similar to other alternate fuel STCs like MOGAS, which a priced based on HP.

I would suspect that most FBOs would rather carry G100UL over 94UL due to the larger market.  EVERY piston aircraft can use G100UL.  Many cannot use 94UL.   And the ones that cannot use 94UL use more fuel, so higher sales.

I wouldn’t be so sure.  I wonder if some townships operating an airport might opt for swift for thinking of the renewable energy source branding since it comes from switch grass / without thinking if that the large fraction of their the aviation engineering forced detail that fuel sales won’t be able to use it.

Edited January 12, 2023 by aviatoreb

[Pinecone]

Swift 94UL is basically 100LL without the lead.

Not sure what the formula for there 100UL is.

And not sure that G100UL could not be made from "sustainable" sources.  It is basic hydro carbons.

[larrynimmo]

[larrynimmo]

I am not ready to plop down $400 yet….

[Raymond J1]

On 1/11/2023 at 3:28 PM, katzhome said:

Mine is 0007.  Luckily I have recent scans of the logs from my purchasing the plane.  So the S/N was quick to find!

Your name is Bond ?... James Bond ? 

[katzhome]

6 minutes ago, Raymond J1 said:

Your name is Bond ?... James Bond ? 

Only if you add that leading zero!  Not sure who triple-oh 7 is versus double-oh! 

 

Now if they can just get that distribution going...fuel flights are good practice and time building, but I can see how it will get annoying!

[Pinecone]

On 1/11/2023 at 9:28 AM, katzhome said:

Mine is 0007.  Luckily I have recent scans of the logs from my purchasing the plane.  So the S/N was quick to find!

It turns out, we were the first two non-beta tester sales.

[T. Peterson]

Go Diamond!! And anyone else that can develop a viable diesel that uses JetA!!

[katzhome]

52 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

It turns out, we were the first two non-beta tester sales.

High-5!    So you were the first REAL STC purchase.  Nice!

[MikeOH]

All this excitement about being an early purchaser of an expensive STC that entitles you to pay probably $1-$2 more per gallon for fuel you can't even buy yet!

I don't get it???