Help With Power Settings For Upcoming X-Country

[GeneralT001]

Hi,

I just bought a 1983 Mooney M20J 201. The aircraft is in Kitchener Ontario and I am in Nanaimo British Columbia. So my plan is to drive (5,000KM...oh joy!!) to pick the aircraft up and fly it back.

The aircraft has just had its annual done as well as an engine overhaul and prop overhaul...so "0" time on both. Before I get out there the aircraft is to be test flown to ensure that all is well with the engine/prop.

I've never owned a GA aircraft before and most of my time (6,000+ hrs) is on multi-engine turbo props. So can anyone provide me with some good advice on how to run this engine for a proper break in on the flight back to Nanaimo? I have heard/read to run it "hard" at like 75%...not sure what that means...75% of max RPM?

Can anyone suggest good power/prop/manifold settings to properly break this engine in? Should I be using LOP while at altitude? I plan most of the flight to be 5,500' - 8,500' with some occasional 11,500' over the rocks.

Appreciate any (helpful :)) advise

 

[201er]

16 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

Hi,

I just bought a 1983 Mooney M20J 201. The aircraft is in Kitchener Ontario and I am in Nanaimo British Columbia. So my plan is to drive (5,000KM...oh joy!!) to pick the aircraft up and fly it back.

The aircraft has just had its annual done as well as an engine overhaul and prop overhaul...so "0" time on both. Before I get out there the aircraft is to be test flown to ensure that all is well with the engine/prop.

I've never owned a GA aircraft before and most of my time (6,000+ hrs) is on multi-engine turbo props. So can anyone provide me with some good advice on how to run this engine for a proper break in on the flight back to Nanaimo? I have heard/read to run it "hard" at like 75%...not sure what that means...75% of max RPM?

Can anyone suggest good power/prop/manifold settings to properly break this engine in? Should I be using LOP while at altitude? I plan most of the flight to be 5,500' - 8,500' with some occasional 11,500' over the rocks.

Appreciate any (helpful :)) advise

 

Fly it like you stole it!

I wouldn’t go anywhere, and especially not over mountains or that high until putting at least 10 hours and an oil change but preferably more!

[Hank]

Whoever built the engine should provide written break in directions. Typically,  not following them will void the warranty. 

Mike has a good point, put some time in the engine before launching somewhere that engine trouble would be awkward or difficult. Make sure everything works right first!

[GeneralT001]

8 minutes ago, 201er said:

Fly it like you stole it!

I wouldn’t go anywhere, and especially not over mountains or that high until putting at least 10 hours and an oil change but preferably more!

Don't have that option...but it will have well over 10 hrs before it gets to the mountains

[GeneralT001]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

Whoever built the engine should provide written break in directions. Typically,  not following them will void the warranty. 

Mike has a good point, put some time in the engine before launching somewhere that engine trouble would be awkward or difficult. Make sure everything works right first!

I'll definitely put a few hours on it after the test flight and before heading west. Sounds like I should keep it fairly low though?

[201er]

14 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

I'll definitely put a few hours on it after the test flight and before heading west. Sounds like I should keep it fairly low though?

My point is to take a day or two to fly the heck out of it in the vicinity of the maintenance shop. First 3 hours I probably wouldn’t venture more than 50 miles away. Then do some cross country flights but coming back. Have them change the oil and reinspect everything. And only then head out on your return voyage. 
 

Run it hard generally requires you to stay below 3000ft to make that kind of power. You’ll want to get some time and confidence but you also want to seat the rings. Last thing you want to do is go up to 11,000ft and be making low power or be skimming trees at 2000ft on a new engine. Take some time to break it in, get to know it, and get it rechecked before going anywhere far.

[GeneralT001]

2 minutes ago, 201er said:

My point is to take a day or two to fly the heck out of it in the vicinity of the maintenance shop. First 3 hours I probably wouldn’t venture more than 50 miles away. Then do some cross country flights but coming back. Have them change the oil and reinspect everything. And only then head out on your return voyage. 
 

Run it hard generally requires you to stay below 3000ft to make that kind of power. You’ll want to get some time and confidence but you also want to seat the rings. Last thing you want to do is go up to 11,000ft and be making low power or be skimming trees at 2000ft on a new engine. Take some time to break it in, get to know it, and get it rechecked before going anywhere far.

Thanks. I will fly it around the area for a few hours and then some low level cross country

[carusoam]

GT,

Your plan is missing a lot of detail….

1) Like who did the annual, the OH, any other important work…

2) Traveling a long distance to be disappointed… is a terrible way to find out how challenging GA can be…

3) Sounds like you are substituting lots of experience in twin engine jets… for a single engine GA plane…

4) As far as I know…. Transition Training has kept some very experienced people alive, while their new to them steed has decided to kill them…

5) Newly OH’d engines come with break-in instructions….

6) Rent somebody with experience in new engines and your plane…

7) The few extra bucks spent will be worth it…. Even if it never gets used…

8) Do you have Any engine break-in experience?

9) Do you have any Mooney M20J experience?

10) Do you need a reminder that people with lots of experience crash planes?

 

Very few long standing MSers have crashed planes… 

Unfortunately, of the plane crashes around here… many are very early in their GA experience…

We even have a fighter jet pilot around here that wrecked his M20E…

 

You probably aren’t taking all the short cuts that it sounds like…

So I have outlined the things that wise people do when buying a Mooney that is new to them… or when having equipment that is new to the plane…

Too many new things going on…

Too far away…

Too many short cuts described…

Do whatever it takes to not be on the pro pilot that crashed his Mooney list…. 

[GeneralT001]

Just now, carusoam said:

GT,

Your plan is missing a lot of detail….

1) Like who did the annual, the OH, any other important work…

2) Traveling a long distance to be disappointed… is a terrible way to find out how challenging GA can be…

3) Sounds like you are substituting lots of experience in twin engine jets… for a single engine GA plane…

4) As far as I know…. Transition Training has kept some very experienced people alive, while their new to them steed has decided to kill them…

The annual was done by TriCity Aero in Kitchener. The overhaul by Reliable Horsepower in October and the Prop overhaul by Hope Aero in April. All very reputable as I've been informed. I do have a bit of time flying a Cessna 172 and have flown a Mooney cross country back in the 80's

[GeneralT001]

I suppose being that its winter, developing a lot of power shouldn't be much of an issue

[ArtVandelay]

Read the POH, there’s performance tables, you’ll want to run in at 75% horsepower for the first few hours, ROP, then try to keep it at least 65% horsepower till first oil change.
You’ll likely have hot cylinder temperatures till it breaks in, but keep them under 425°F. Don’t try LOP operation until temperatures drop below 400°. Once broken in they should run around 350° or so in winter temperatures.
I assume you have an engine monitor with fuel flow.

[carusoam]

GT,

That Tri-city MSC is top notch…

Contact Clarence there…  @M20Doc

He is incredibly helpful…

Review with him the things you should consider to be successful….

I finished the bullet points in my post above… review them to see more of what people in your position usually do…

You really want to work on your risk mitigation plan…

1) New 2U plane…

2) Recent engine OH…

3) No recent M20J experience…

4) Winter…

5) Winter in Canada…

6) Driving cross country?

7) It’s not a new car, with a warranty, and AAA card…

 

I like you too much to let you do this without seriously thinking about how best to survive… (if and when something hits the fan)

Best regards,

-a-

 

[philip_g]

You're starting to display invulnerability. Get some transition traijing.

[GeneralT001]

1 minute ago, carusoam said:

GT,

That Tri-city MSC is top notch…

Contact Clarence there…  @M20Doc

He is incredibly helpful…

Review with him the things you should consider to be successful….

I finished the bullet points in my post above… review them to see more of what people in your position usually do…

You really want to work on your risk mitigation plan…

1) New 2U plane…

2) Recent engine OH…

3) No recent M20J experience…

4) Winter…

5) Winter in Canada…

6) Driving cross country?

7) It’s not a new car, with a warranty, and AAA card…

 

I like you too much to let you do this without seriously thinking about how best to survive…

Best regards,

-a-

 

Fear not...I'm thinking about it!!

[GeneralT001]

1 minute ago, philip_g said:

You're starting to display invulnerability. Get some transition traijing.

Nah, thats not an issue...I'm too old to be invulnerable

[carusoam]

Old people with experience….

Fear NOT having Transition Training… 
 

Botched Mooney Go-arounds have killed some experienced people needlessly…. Including a flight instructor just prior to my first Mooney flight back in Y2K…

 

Transition Training for experienced pilots is very flexible….

In A couple of hours you can experience first hand all of the tricky things a Mooney has to offer…

Review all of the avionics the plane has… making sure your fingers and its buttons are all working in concert…

And… when flying the first 10hrs with a new engine… it’s good to have a Mooney flight engineer on board to help keep an eye on engine things…

No… there really isn’t a Mooney flight engineer… but an extra set of knowledgable eyes in the capital always helps…

(See Tom’s post above… he has outlined what a pilot with a new engine is typically doing and seeing)

All that stuff comes together… Most often it works out well… once or twice a year there is a review to see if there were signs of a failure beforehand…

 

Your friends at MS… are doing their best to ferret out any signs before hand….

Keep writing…

Best regards,

-a-

[GeneralT001]

Just now, carusoam said:

Old people with experience….

Fear not having Transition Training… 
 

Botched Mooney Go-arounds have killed some experienced people needlessly…. Including a flight instructor just prior to my first Mooney flight back in Y2K…

 

Transition Training for experienced pilots is very flexible….

In A couple of hours you can experience first hand all of the tricky things a Mooney has to offer…

Review all of the avionics the plane has… making sure your fingers and its buttons are all working in concert…

And… when flying the first 10hrs with a new engine… it’s good to have a Mooney flight engineer on board to help out…

No… there really isn’t a Mooney flight engineer… but an extra set of knowledgable eyes in the capital always helps…

(See Tom’s post above… he has outlined what a pilot with a new engine is typically doing and seeing)

All that stuff comes together… Most often it works out well… once or twice a year there is a review to see if there were signs of a failure beforehand…

 

Your friends at MS… are doing their best to ferret out any signs before hand….

Keep writing…

Best regards,

-a-

Fortunately I will have access to a CFI/ATPL pilot who will be doing both the test flight and my "check out" before signing me off. So hopefully all of that will get somewhere between 5 - 10 hrs on the engine.

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, GeneralT001 said:

Don't have that option...but it will have well over 10 hrs before it gets to the mountains

 

50 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

Thanks. I will fly it around the area for a few hours and then some low level cross country

You're asking for advice, but you're not listening.

Having to get somewhere on a time schedule in a new-to-you single engine airplane with a newly overhauled engine in not the most hospitable time of the year in Canada could easily lead to faulty decision making. If you're on a time crunch now do it when you have the time or hire someone to fly it back for you. 

[GeneralT001]

5 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

 

You're asking for advice, but you're not listening.

Having to get somewhere on a time schedule in a new-to-you single engine airplane with a newly overhauled engine in not the most hospital time of the year in Canada could easily lead to faulty decision making. If you're on a time crunch now do it when you have the time or hire someone to fly it back for you. 

I'm pretty well aware of the winter issues in Canada having lived here my whole life...been to every corner of it in winter (including the North Pole). I have enough winter experience to truly, truly hate winter  I have a hockey sock full of CRM (used to be an instructor on the mighty KingAir Beech 90) and 7 tours flying the CC130 tactical in Afghanistan taught me plenty about risk management. Still, when and if it all falls apart...wings level and airspeed....everything else...meh...unless the wing falls off of course......

My biggest worry is treating the engine properly...the actual flying...not so much

Oh yeah, tons of SAR time flying in the mountains were I've seen lots of the outcomes of pilot stupidity...don't really want to be part of those statistics

Edited December 15, 2021 by GeneralT001

[carusoam]

I’m thinking driving across the country in Winter for 5k kms….

Was originally hyperbole…

If Plan A is to really drive that far… THEN start the wild goose chase….

 

There are parts of Canada that are very inhospitable in Winter…. About 4000km worth….

 

Find the posts from Canadian Mooney pilots for the gear they keep in the plane…

There are large segments of the map that don’t have cell service….

 

The Last Mooney lost in Canada took a spring thaw to find the plane…. That was really close to a major highway…

Flying yourself in a GA plane is serious business… for yourself….

 

Best regards,

-a- 

[GeneralT001]

2 minutes ago, carusoam said:

I’m thinking driving across the country in Winter for 5k kms….

Was originally hyperbole…

If Plan A is to really drive that far… THEN start the wild goose chase….

 

There are parts of Canada that are very inhospitable in Winter…. About 4000km worth….

 

Find the posts from Canadian Mooney pilots for the gear they keep in the plane…

There are large segments of the map that don’t have cell service….

 

The Last Mooney lost in Canada took a spring thaw to find the plane…. That was really close to a major highway…

Flying yourself in a GA plane is serious business… for yourself….

 

Best regards,

-a- 

Oh the stories I could tell about driving in winter in Canada...you wouldn't believe the stuff I've done...closed highways didn't stop me. I'm giving myself a solid 5 days to do the 5K...assuming good wx. I've given myself 3 weeks to get the whole thing done....even that may be undoable...but you have to start somewhere

Edited December 15, 2021 by GeneralT001

[carusoam]

GT,

Had you started the conversation with…

“Where can I find a good Trainer for this….”

“I have this experience already…”

 

You could have bought the experience, that you don’t already have….

 

Losing a fuel line in a recently purchased/built airplane was a huge problem for a pilot around here recently…

He was a Mooney pilot, but his experimental plane left him miles from home…. Unfortunately, Perished in the accident…

 

So…

I get it…

You have tons of other experience…

 

You get it….

Your life experience covers a lot of unchecked boxes… except for a few.

 

What is in your plan for when this new 2U plane has the fuel line fall off, or throws a piston through the cylinder….?

(recent new plane challenges found around here, unfortunately, I don’t have to make up the details….)

 

Do you guys use a Spot locator?

Satellite communication with the outside world sounds like a good idea…

 

What kind of crunches do you expect to have…?

Time crunch… getting across the country first, driving in winter…

What are you doing with the car when you get to the east end? A one way rental?

Cash crunch…?

It seems it would be sensible to fly commercial across Canada in a day….

How much free time do you have to get all of this done?

Some of us are retired, and like visiting friends and family while traveling across countries…. Maybe you are doing this too in your retirement….

Wonder if @yvesg has anything to add….  Yves is an awesome MSer on the East end of Canada, and flys a really nice M20J…

Best regards,

-a-

[Culver LFA]

I'm excited for you following your new purchase here, I'm confident it's a good one.  A Mooney is a very 'simple' complex airplane that some have even learned how to fly in, but please slow down and reconsider this plan.

There must be an experienced Mooney ferry pilot in Canada that could complete the run-in, have Clarence or Ron do a good once over, and then fly the airplane home for you? Riding along with a CFI on a cross-country will get you nothing towards Mooney transition but some pretty pictures of the countryside.

[GeneralT001]

1 minute ago, Culver LFA said:

I'm excited for you following your new purchase here, I'm confident it's a good one.  A Mooney is a very 'simple' complex airplane that some have even learned how to fly in, but please slow down and reconsider this plan.

There must be an experience Mooney ferry pilot in Canada that could complete the run-in, have Clarence or Ron do a good once over, and then fly the airplane home for you? Riding along with a CFI on a cross-country will get you nothing towards Mooney transition but some pretty pictures of the countryside.

Nope. Im all in on this. Looking forward to it

[ilovecornfields]

No offense, but you’re either bragging about your exceptionally poor decision-making ability or a troll (or both?). I guess if you’re serious about this then make sure your life insurance is paid up, have fun and don’t take anyone with you. Maybe get a couple of GoPros and document the whole thing so the Canadian version of the NTSB won’t have to waste too much time and money figuring out what’s happened.