Why Not...SR20 VS M20J

[INA201]

Just pulled up the closest two currently available for sale off of Trade a Plane.  More apples to apples.  

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20J+201&listing_id=2370722&s-type=aircraft

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=CIRRUS&model=SR20&listing_id=2364350&s-type=aircraft

[201er]

Given that the Mooney is 17 years older for only slightly less money seems to imply it is still a more highly valued airplane when you get into apples to apples.

[67 m20F chump]

One of them is a plastic clown plane.

[MikeOH]

8 minutes ago, 67 m20F chump said:

One of them is a plastic clown plane.

And the other is a chump's?

Edited November 28, 2019 by MikeOH

[Tim Jodice]

Assuming that the cirrus has been done on time in the past, it will need a chute repack next year. They don't say anything  about ADSB or that the 430s are WAAS. That would certainly drop the price.

The Mooney having both WAAS and ADSB would certainly make it more desirable. 

[Gagarin]

The Cirrus fix gear simplify significantly annuals and maintenance since no jacks are required. A composite plane is free of corrosion. Although I feel more comfortable in a Mooney in the vicinity of lightning.

[gsengle]

The Cirrus fix gear simplify significantly annuals and maintenance since no jacks are required. A composite plane is free of corrosion. Although I feel more comfortable in a Mooney in the vicinity of lightning.

And yet I’ve seen more than one shop where the fixed price annual is the same Mooney vs Cirrus. And I’ve seen many insurance quotes where the Cirrus cost more per dollar hull than the Mooney. So go figure.


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[Bob_Belville]

At @AGL Aviationa fixed priced annual for a M20C-J includes 5 more hours than a SR20 and a M20K gets 2 more hours than an SR22.

[1964-M20E]

You still need a Jack to do wheel bearings

[Bob_Belville]

5 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

You still need a Jack to do wheel bearings

I suppose it takes 5 minutes +/- to jack up my M20E. Less than that to "un-jack".

[INA201]

This article sums up the Cirrus pretty thoroughly.   

https://philip.greenspun.com/flying/cirrus-sr20

 

1.  Mooney Cruises a little faster

2.  Mooney is more efficient

3.  Repairs are easier and less expensive on the Mooney.

4.  Chute repack may be comparable to tanks leaking in the Mooney

5. Insurance?

6.  Maintenance costs?

7.  Useful load is better in the Mooney

5.  The Continental will require a top before a Lycosaur and a more expensive overhaul cost.

6.  Cirrus has the chute

7.  Cirrus is a little roomier and ergonomic on the inside.

8.  Mooney gear retracts, looks better when flying

9.  Longevity of the airframe is proven for decades in the Mooney

10.  The Mooney is depreciated out the Cirrus may still drop some in value

12.  Factory support?

13.  It is a tough competitor but who's to say that the Cirrus doesn't have a ton of squawks while the Mooney is clean.  It is hard to make a real accurate comparison by an ad alone.   

We need more data

 

[moontownMooney]

Lots of good points already made. My two cents... If we are just comparing the models genericly, I think the biggest difference to me is the ~150lb useful load advantage of the Mooney (if internet sources of such are to be trusted). Climb rate of the Mooney appears to be a bit sportier as well (25-50%).

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[KB4]

32 minutes ago, INA201 said:

13.  It is a tough competitor but who's to say that the Cirrus doesn't have a ton of squawks while the Mooney is clean.  It is hard to make a real accurate comparison by an ad alone.   

We need more data

 

By 83' Mooney had things somewhat figured out after 81' modifications to J. This 2000 Cirrus is very early model. SB's, may loom.  15K to repack.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, 1964-M20E said:

You still need a Jack to do wheel bearings

And to check nose steering friction.

Clarence

[eman1200]

clearly it’s whichever one has a pilot relief tube.

[Guest]

To be more fair I think the comparison should be Aircraft of the same or similar power.

M20 C and G against a Piper Comanche 180 and Piper Arrow 180, Cessna 172RG, 

M20 E, F and J against Beech Sierra, Cessna 177RG, Rockwell Commander 112, 

M20K against Piper turbo Arrow 4, maybe Comanche 260 turbo,

M20S against earlier Beech Bonanza, Comanche 250/260,

M20R against Beech 35/36, Cirrus SR22 Cessna 210, Piper Lance/ Saratoga,

M20TN against Cirrus SR22T, Cessna T210, Beech 36TC.

Each airframe in the grouping has different strong and weak points, each one is a trade off in some feature.  The Mooneys likely beat them all in overall fuel efficiency.

Clarence

[DXB]

A 2000 SR20 Cirrus is objectively a good airplane with various strengths and weaknesses relative to the M20J model.  But let's be honest - I doubt any of us, including owners of the pre J models, would enjoy flying the Cirrus nearly as much, or even want to be seen in one .   The control feel in the Mooney is just in another league.  

[jetdriven]

4 hours ago, Gagarin said:

The Cirrus fix gear simplify significantly annuals and maintenance since no jacks are required. A composite plane is free of corrosion. Although I feel more comfortable in a Mooney in the vicinity of lightning.

Jacks certainly are required. You still have to inspect/service  the wheel bearings and brakes.  

lightning is perhaps a distant 4th or 5th in the list of hazards of thunderstorms. The Cirrus has a certified system of mesh to conduct lightning.  Not a concern. 

[jetdriven]

11 minutes ago, DXB said:

A 2000 SR20 Cirrus is objectively a good airplane with various strengths and weaknesses relative to the M20J model.  But let's be honest - I doubt any of us, including owners of the pre J models, would enjoy flying the Cirrus nearly as much, or even want to be seen in one .   The control feel in the Mooney is just in another league.  

Until they fly a Beechcraft.  A Mooney flies like a F250 diesel with worn tie rods compared to, say, a V35B.  Truly a fingertip airplane. 

[DXB]

12 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Until they fly a Beechcraft.  A Mooney flies like a F250 diesel with worn tie rods compared to, say, a V35B.  Truly a fingertip airplane. 

This is a vast exaggeration , though admittedly Bonanzas do seem to have an edge on control feel in my very brief experience.  But with essentially all my time in a Mooney, the V36 Bo seating position felt a little odd - more like sitting at a kitchen table than in a cockpit.

But Bonanza and Mooney owners should no longer be divided by such issues and instead stay focused on denigrating Cirrus .

[Mooney in Oz]

12 hours ago, INA201 said:

5.  The Continental will require a top before a Lycosaur and a more expensive overhaul cost.

Isn't the SR-20 powered by a Lyc I0-360?

[tmo]

46 minutes ago, Mooney in Oz said:

Isn't the SR-20 powered by a Lyc I0-360?

It is a Continental IO-360, NA.  The newer ones have a Lycoming IO-390.  The -22 is Continental [TS]IO-550.

Edited November 29, 2019 by tmo

[Browncbr1]

I think comparisons should be made dollar for dollar...   for what that chute costs to maintain, you could throw in a second engine.   For as much money as these two planes are listed, that could get you a totally pimped out upgraded twin Comanche. 

[flyer338]

There is a big difference in the control feel of the ‘65 C model I used to own and the ‘83 J I just bought. The C was much more nimble feeling.

As to buying a pimped out twin, buying gas for or two engines does not pencil out for me, no matter how cheap to buy.  I understand Comanches have gear motor issues that make the Mooney back spring issues seem like a blessing. I do not know if they apply to Twin Comanches.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, flyer338 said:

There is a big difference in the control feel of the ‘65 C model I used to own and the ‘83 J I just bought. The C was much more nimble feeling.

As to buying a pimped out twin, buying gas for or two engines does not pencil out for me, no matter how cheap to buy.  I understand Comanches have gear motor issues that make the Mooney back spring issues seem like a blessing. I do not know if they apply to Twin Comanches.

You may be misinformed regarding Comanche gear transmissions.  They come in 2 models, Dura and Dukes, the Dura is the weaker of the designs.  The forward bearing is known to come loose, but can be bonded with any number of Loctite products.  Dukes is the preferred model but is more rare.  Both single and twin Comanche use the same transmission.

Matt Kurke of Comanche Gear in Florida machines new housing from stronger materials and copies the Dukes bearing retainer.

Both designs are superior to the Mooney system, in the event of a failure in a Comanche you disconnect the transmission from the mechanical system and lower the gear.  If the spring or gears fail in a Mooney transmission, there is no way to disconnect the transmission and lower the landing gear and a gear up landing will result.

Clarence