M20J vs A36

[Gagarin]

A friend of mine interested on getting a high performance single asked me about the M20J and A36 Bonanza. Here are some my findings.

An M20J of same year is about $100k cheaper than an A36 and cost less to operate

An A36 have six seats capability but the rental cars I get at destinations can only seat 4  

On my 1982 M20J the back seats recline all the way for a very comfortable long trip. On the A36 they do not recline.

The A36 needs twice the runway length for take off and landing vs the M20J. These limits the accessibility to many GA airports, especially on an emergency. 

M20J specs

https://www.globalair.com/aircraft-for-sale/Specifications?specid=60

A36 specs

https://www.globalair.com/aircraft-for-sale/Specifications?specid=35

 

[gsengle]

I’d be more likely to compare an M20R against an A36 than a J model....


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[MIm20c]

9 minutes ago, Gagarin said:

An A36 have six seats capability but the rental cars I get at destinations can only seat 4  

Sounds like you need to stop being such a CB at the rental desk...

...as I pick up the keys to my nice shiny Versa in the rental corral. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by MIm20c

[kris_adams]

Love my J but I’d definitely own an A36 and be super happy as well. 

[EricJ]

If/when I ever get a different airplane an A36 is on my short list.

[aviatoreb]

A36 - too small - not enough leg room for this tall pilot.

[jetdriven]

These air craft are quite different. An A36 is more of a station wagon than a Mooney. For example you can put a dinette set and four chairs in the back of an A36.  You can also fit 3 kids in one besides Mom and Pop..  Two large dogs back there and lay on the floor. With tip tanks and turbos its a 190-200kt airplane that can go 1400nm or more.  I have often lusted after one, but really the mission we have doesn’t call for one. Unless you count Oshkosh, it would come in very handy.

[Ftlausa]

I agree that the Ovation and the A36 are more comparable aircraft.  The A36 will still be more money.  

I also agree that the A36 can be less uncomfortable to fly than the Mooney, which is part of the reason I don't own a Bo.  The Ovation also has longer range and better efficiency than the A36.  The A36 has better useful load and is more stable.   The maintenance costs are higher on the A36.  Lots of people swear by the A/G36, so its pilot's choice.     

[Browncbr1]

I’m not sure where the baggage for 6 people would go in an A36.   The back is less volume than mid body Mooneys.  

[GeeBee]

I considered an A-36 before purchasing my Ovation. I love Beechcrafts, worked for a Beech dealer. They are well made and comfortable aircraft, especially if someone else is paying the bills. However, that all said, the Bonanza spar web AD was a deal killer for me. Every 500 hours having to dig into the center section is pricey. It surpasses 5 figures if cracks are found and installation of the reinforcing kit does not eliminate this routine. If you buy an early model you also got wing bolts in the bath tub fitting which is also a 5 figure issue. The only way I would buy an A-36 is to buy one beyond the serial numbers covered, which I believe is '96 or model or later. Bottom line is you can't beat the Mooney structure. It is stout as a brick you know what.

If you are regularly going to carry 4 people, hang the check book and buy an A-36. Every 500 hours, rub your neck and write them a check. If it is just two people with and occasional 3 or 4 get a Mooney and enjoy low cost efficient aviating.

 

https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/regulatory-brief-raytheon-beech-carry-through-spar-cracks

 

 

[carusoam]

How good of a friend is he?

1) The A36 listed is powered by an IO550...

2) It’s harder to be a CB burning 15gph...

3) Does he have...

•  3 kids
• a large stack of AMUs for acquisition
• Another stack of AMUs for operation
• Week logic skills 

A big Bo may be good for him...

4) If he prefers...

• Speed
• Efficiency
• wants to keep a stack of dough for retirement, or kids college, or a second house...
• Doesn’t have any challenge with his logic...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

This is comparing a 2 door coupe, like my 335i to a suburban. The missions are so different it seems that one should figure out what the mission is. Then the choice will be obvious.

[Bolter]

I never considered an A36, so this was the first time I checked out the specs against my J.  With those landing and takeoff distances, I would need to base at another airport (ties into the short runway thread).  The trickle down costs of that alone would really add up for me.  Longer drives to the airport and less airport options removing some hangar options.   

Thanks for giving me the chance to appreciate my plane a little more today. :-)

[MIm20c]

Have to say I’ve really like the A36. Thinking two kids and the wife in the back would really be nice traveling. However, I spent a lot of time sitting in the display model at OSH. The back is actually very tight and I find a big difference between it and a pa46.  The back doors would be nice for loading elderly people that’s for sure. 

[smccray]

They’re both great airplanes .

[Bryan]

I think the takeoff and landing distances between the A36 and the M20J were stated (double) is inaccurate. I own a M20K (a turbo J) and operate an A36 for a biz partner. The A36 takeoff roll and landing (at gross) are very close to my M20K. In fact the A36 is much more forgiving on landing.

I will admit the barn doors in the back are the so much better than anything I have ever experienced in GA aircraft. How many  adirondack chairs can you fit in an A36?

two!

Now, for the pilot, it is way more comfortable in the M20 with your legs stretched forward.

Like everyone states, it depends on your mission!!!  

A M20 for me and another passenger or an A36 for more than two adults.

[flight2000]

9 hours ago, Bryan said:

I think the takeoff and landing distances between the A36 and the M20J were stated (double) is inaccurate. I own a M20K (a turbo J) and operate an A36 for a biz partner. The A36 takeoff roll and landing (at gross) are very close to my M20K. In fact the A36 is much more forgiving on landing.

Now, for the pilot, it is way more comfortable in the M20 with your legs stretched forward.

Exactly, take those take-off and landing numbers that were posted in the links by the OP with a huge grain of salt.  They are not real world....

As for comfort, that will be a personal choice and preference.  I seemed to always get a butt cramp after about 2 hours while flying my previous M20E.  I look at it this way, if you like sitting on the floor eating with a tray table while watching TV, that's the M20 line (i.e. legs straight out).  If you prefer to sit at a dining table, that's the Beechcraft line (i.e. legs bent 80-90 degrees with feet flat on the floor).  I personally find the Beech's to be much more comfortable for me.  My wife and boys found the backseats to be more comfortable in the Bonanza and Travel Air as well.  My seats also recline and lay almost flat unless I have a crap ton of luggage back there, but that would apply to the M20 series too.    I haven't sat in an A36 in a long time, but I'd be shocked if the rear, forward facing seats didn't recline.  The backward facing rear seats would have limited recline for obvious reasons.

As for this nugget:

13 hours ago, Gagarin said:

An A36 have six seats capability but the rental cars I get at destinations can only seat 4 

Every time I've rented cars at airports, I've had the option of upgrading to a larger SUV if needed.  This sounds like a personal limitation to me? 

Cheers,

Brian

[Bravoman]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

How good of a friend is he?

1) The A36 listed is powered by an IO550...

2) It’s harder to be a CB burning 15gph...

3) Does he have...

•  3 kids
• a large stack of AMUs for acquisition
• Another stack of AMUs for operation
• Week logic skills 

A big Bo may be good for him...

4) If he prefers...

• Speed
• Efficiency
• wants to keep a stack of dough for retirement, or kids college, or a second house...
• Doesn’t have any challenge with his logic...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

Or have an old reliable and trusty PA 32 for utility with the big back doors and a Mooney. Now that’s logic

[GeeBee]

The problem with the PA 32 is again wings. The new wing spar attachment AD affects it as well as the PA28. Again you have to spend well into 200 AMU to get out of the serial number range of affected airframes. As it is, a lot of used PA32 have scab patches on the wings to take care of cracking. About everyone of them north of 3000TT usually have cracks. It is a real hauler, but the airframes are sagging under their age. 

 

[Hank]

The PO of my C was fixing it uo to be his retirement ride when he stumbled onto an A36 at a bargain price. It's a completely different plane! It's a great cargo / baggage hauler, and lands pretty easily [the first time I landed it in any measurable crosswind it was 15 knots and gusty from one front quarter, I had a couple hundred hours in my C, and set her down with no issue at all].

BUT every time he flew with 4 adults, two sat in the rear-facing club seats. I tried once to sit in the way back seat and he insisted that I move forward [weight and balance issue]. Just something to think about before adding two cylinders, 85 hp and 5+ gph to your flight plan. He cruised around 155-160 knots and 14-15 gph, turbonormalized. 

[Gagarin]

20 minutes ago, Hank said:

The PO of my C was fixing it uo to be his retirement ride when he stumbled onto an A36 at a bargain price. It's a completely different plane! It's a great cargo / baggage hauler, and lands pretty easily [the first time I landed it in any measurable crosswind it was 15 knots and gusty from one front quarter, I had a couple hundred hours in my C, and set her down with no issue at all].

BUT every time he flew with 4 adults, two sat in the rear-facing club seats. I tried once to sit in the way back seat and he insisted that I move forward [weight and balance issue]. Just something to think about before adding two cylinders, 85 hp and 5+ gph to your flight plan. He cruised around 155-160 knots and 14-15 gph, turbonormalized. 

Unlike the Mooneys on the A36 all rear passengers are seated behind the center of lift and there is no recliners like on the M20J. On my M20J  my wife (90 pounds) prefers to seat on the back seats because of the recliners and less noise.

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Gagarin

[67 m20F chump]

I have had 2 Beechcraft and now a Mooney.  I liked all of them for different reasons. If I had the money I would have the A36.  
I also think parts availability and maintenance support is better for the Beechcraft.  Mooney is a great airplane but so is Beechcraft.

[aviatoreb]

22 minutes ago, 67 m20F chump said:

...Mooney is a great airplane but so is Beechcraft.

Truth!

[Bolter]

6 hours ago, flight2000 said:

Exactly, take those take-off and landing numbers that were posted in the links by the OP with a huge grain of salt.  They are not real world....

 

@flight2000You are very right!  In the interest of due diligence vs hearsay (fake news?), I wanted to check a little deeper when doubts were raised.  I trusted my fellow pilots' experience were not that far off.  I downloaded a 1982 A36 POH and checked gross takeoff distances against my 1983 J's POH.  While the POH may not be completely realistic, it is what the insurance and NTSB will look at when you overrun the 2200' runway! 

Takeoff: Both planes are under 1300' in the POH for my example condition (SL, 15°C, gross weight, calm, no obstacle).  The difference is a 1 or 2 hundred feet on takeoff, with my J at 1000'.  Very different than 2167' for the A36 in that link.  

Landing: Both are close to equal with the A36.  SL, 15°C, 200 lbs under gross, calm, no obstacle landing distance for the both is about 900'.  Much less than half of the 2417' reported in the original link.  And the better landing gear of the A36 probably makes it more forgiving if you get sloppy.  

Anyone who wants to check my research themselves, here is the POH for the A36 that I used: http://jasonblair.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Beechcraft-Bonanza-A36-AFM.pdf

All said and done, I still love my J and remain steadfast and unyielding when I say it is the best plane that I own today :-) 

[SantosDumont]

If I had understood anything about what my missions would be when I bought my Mooney... I would have bought an A36.  I have 3 boys, and didn't have enough confidence in my abilities to want to put my whole family in the airplane and thought I would never want to.  Now, 600hrs later and IR, it would be nice to be able to jump in a plane and take a trip to Disney, or whatever.

But the M20F has been a great platform to spend that 600 hours and learn what my missions are.