Mooney M20J VS Bonanza V tail or F33

[DavidJ18]

Hello Mooney community. Its been few months I've been trying to compare Mooney M20J VS Bonanza V tail or F33. I have a budget of 130K to invest and i can not make my mind. i love Mooney M20J performance for speed, fuel and economy but my mission is to be able to travel in a long cross country and be able to take 4 adult at 180 pound plus luggage . Mooney M20J typically has a useful load of 880lb to 950lb. base on these number i've to compensate a lot on the fuel. VS Bonanza has a better useful load  and more roomy inside. This is just a once or twice a year that i may travel with 4 adult but most of the time would be 2-3 passenger. I would like to hear your expertise between these two beautiful bird and your thought for either or. Thank you so much. 

David

[PTK]

Here’s an interesting article that may shed some light and help you.

http://www.mooneyland.com/why-mooney/

[KSMooniac]

You need to check the W&B for any candidate V-tail bonanza as many will not work with full loads of people and fuel. I don't know if the 33 models are any better. If you need to carry 700+ pounds of butts regularly, you should probably look at an A36, honestly.

Some J's have useful loads of 1000+ lbs, and can fly LOP at 8-9.5 GPH @ 150-155 KTAS so they can make that most of that useful load by carrying less than full tanks. And the CG won't run out the back of the envelope while burning that fuel.

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[INA201]

My 1978J has 980 UL with 740 left while holding 40 gallons of fuel. Buy the J, rent the Bo or Cirrus when needed and you’ll be way ahead financially.  You’ll get to fly at least two different aircraft as well. 

[jaylw314]

35 minutes ago, DavidJ18 said:

Hello Mooney community. Its been few months I've been trying to compare Mooney M20J VS Bonanza V tail or F33. I have a budget of 130K to invest and i can not make my mind. i love Mooney M20J performance for speed, fuel and economy but my mission is to be able to travel in a long cross country and be able to take 4 adult at 180 pound plus luggage . Mooney M20J typically has a useful load of 880lb to 950lb. base on these number i've to compensate a lot on the fuel. VS Bonanza has a better useful load  and more roomy inside. This is just a once or twice a year that i may travel with 4 adult but most of the time would be 2-3 passenger. I would like to hear your expertise between these two beautiful bird and your thought for either or. Thank you so much. 

David

+1 on @KSMooniac above--remember, your fuel burn in a Mooney M20J will be lower than either alternative.  If your mission is 700 lbs of people/stuff for 250 miles or less, no problem.  I fly with 4 trim (well, maybe except me) adults on a 30 gallons on a 250 nm trip.  30 gallons is 3+ hours of flight time at 9.5 gal/hour, plenty for the trip + reserve.  That 180 lbs of fuel can get you pretty far.

On the other hand, if you're above 700 lbs or your trip is >250 nm, then things start getting dicey, and the M20J might not be the one for your mission

 

[cbarry]

Buy the J for the majority of your flights and you will appreciate it.  Buy a commercial airline ticket for the couple of flights you mention and that will help you appreciate the J that much more.

[rpcc]

If you are looking for soft field ops the Bonanza product is probably better for that.

Check out beechtalk for the v35 and f33 info - you worry about cg with those planes, not so much useful load.  

You should look at the sr20 as well.  It might work for your goals.  Don't know about the useful load though.  

Make sure you get in each type.  Very different feeling between mooney and beech and of course the sr20.  

My favorite is the long body mooney, but not being ideal for soft field ops is a bummer, same issue with the sr20.

As a note, the a36 has very similar opex to the other beech aircraft, but a bit more capex. 

[Guest]

I’d vote for a Comanche, but it would have to have an IO720!

Clarence

[xcrmckenna]

I have 1000lbs of useful load in my J. I removed my original strobes and went to led, my vacuum pump, original gauges are being removed when I install a G5 and an JPI 900 the first of May. I’m pulling most of the interior for new CiES fuel senders. We will pull ever bit of old useless wires. I’m hoping for another 20lbs.

I run lop for most of my trips at 8,000msl
8 gallons an hour
True Airspeed of 180 mph
152 knot ground speed
19 gph

Hard to beat that. I can fill the seats and go full fuel and have over 7.5 hours of reserve on standard tanks.

If I pull 20 gallons of fuel I can fill my baggage compartment and have over 5 hours of flight time.

I can be pretty much anywhere my bladder says I can be in five hours. And look cooler in a Mooney:)




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[EricJ]

I did this same exercise last year and bought a 77 M20J.   As previously mentioned, Bonanzas will generally be better for getting in and out of soft or unimproved fields, will have better useful load, be faster, etc.   All of that comes at the cost of higher fuel consumption and maintenance costs.   It's a pretty fair tradeoff, IMHO, and in my case I usually travel pretty light and like the better economy of the Mooney, so that's why I went that way.   There have already been times when I would have liked to have had the Bonanza, but for the most part the Mooney suits me well.   The optimal mission profiles of the two are different enough that if you have a preference in performance it should favor one or the other.

[carusoam]

1) Are you a fan of Speed and efficiency?

-or-

2) Does Big brand name mean more to you?

 

3) are you a fan of Instrument flight?

-or-

4) Does fear of the tail falling off, keep you out of the clouds?

 

5)  Are your economics based on getting as much as you can for the dollars you have?

-or-

6) you don’t mind spending more for a larger cabin, slower flying, less efficient bird?

 

Either way, Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[jaylw314]

7 minutes ago, carusoam said:

1) Are you a fan of Speed and efficiency?

-or-

2) Does Big brand name mean more to you?

 

3) are you a fan of Instrument flight?

-or-

4) Does fear of the tail falling off, keep you out of the clouds?

 

5)  Are your economics based on getting as much as you can for the dollars you have?

-or-

6) you don’t mind spending more for a larger cabin, slower flying, less efficient bird?

 

Either way, Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

Damn, man, that's cold...

[SantosDumont]

I have 3 boys so we won't all fit in the Mooney (with the wife).  So my next plane is going to be a A36.

[carusoam]

Jay,

I left off the disclaimer...

I have never flown a Brand B, But I did sleep in the back of one once...

Alan Fox did the flying, his buddy Chris did the SIC duties, I rested well while the V-tail gently rocked...

Best regards,

-a-

[INA201]

3 hours ago, DavidJ18 said:

Hello Mooney community. Its been few months I've been trying to compare Mooney M20J VS Bonanza V tail or F33. I have a budget of 130K to invest and i can not make my mind. i love Mooney M20J performance for speed, fuel and economy but my mission is to be able to travel in a long cross country and be able to take 4 adult at 180 pound plus luggage . Mooney M20J typically has a useful load of 880lb to 950lb. base on these number i've to compensate a lot on the fuel. VS Bonanza has a better useful load  and more roomy inside. This is just a once or twice a year that i may travel with 4 adult but most of the time would be 2-3 passenger. I would like to hear your expertise between these two beautiful bird and your thought for either or. Thank you so much. 

David

David,  where did you go?  The unwritten rule is that you can't throw a Bo or Cirri grenade and run.  Actually, im kidding, we love this conversation.

[DavidJ18]

LOL, I'm still here  Thanks for all your useful info. Everyone defiantly got something to say. I know in my heart the J is a better choice but hearing it from other members with better experience helps a lot. 

 

[MB65E]

For the few time I have flown with full seats in the m20e I can’t really say I need the space or extra seats. However,  Now that our family exceeds the seating capacity of the M20 an A36 sounds really nice. But loading all of us up in an A36 2-3 times a year probably isn’t worth it. Matter of fact, going the other direction, a Swift or Luscombe now sounds nice too!  The m20 is about the best 2 person XC machine in the world. Anything more than that for a weekend trip 4+ bags is a little tight. 

My personal choice would be a 550 F33C! For the budget you cant go wrong with a J! If the budget is tight and 130k for a J is too steep, maybe look into a nice F or E. Finally, I think the best V-tail would be the V35S model. That was the lightest fastest V-tail they made. 

You are in the ballpark! All great choices!

I’ve found the back seats are just to check the box. 

-Matt

[bradp]

You could make your mission profile work - if that’s your consistent mission - with a 1000+ lb useful load J or an F model mooney.  It’s not going to work full fuel. 

There are some Js that might do well for you but they are special / rare birds. They are the 2900# GW STCd birds- but you’d want a stripped down and light weight version of that (the reason for the STC is that the UL kept creeping down year to year with more stuff ).  My plane doesn’t qualify for the 2900 GW but numbers for your profile if it did would be -

1160 UL. 720 people 75 bags leaves 365 lb of fuel. 

Performance stayed static with the GW increases.  This calculus would therefore not work for high / hot / obstructed or soft field ops.  

[RobertGary1]

For many years I had both. A friend damaged my V tail and I took the insurance and figured I was better off with just one. But for taking 4 adults the V tail wins hands down. I love my Mooney but the Bo is a truck and squishing 4 adults jn a sports car can be done but it’s not ideal  But for 2 people and occasionally 4 or 2 adults and 2 kids the Mooney is hard to best  

 

 

-Robert

[chrisk]

Both are nice planes.   When I was looking to get a plane 5 years ago, Mooney and Bonanza were on my list.   I came to the conclusion a Mooney would cost me less (to acquire and operate) and was better for the longer distance flying I planned on.  That said,  to have a plane capable of carrying 4 larger folks, luggage, and fuel, I would look at an A36, Cessna 210, or a Piper Lance.  

Some folks have suggested renting a bigger plane when you need one.  In theory, this sounds like a good idea.  In practice I have found it difficult to find nicer high performance planes for rent.                      

[midlifeflyer]

11 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Damn, man, that's cold...

This is the USofA where one can't praise their choice without trashing someone else's.

[KLRDMD]

7 hours ago, MB65E said:

I think the best V-tail would be the V35S model. That was the lightest fastest V-tail they made. 

It isn't 1967 any more. You can put an IO-550 in a J35 that's both lighter and faster than the S35.

[MyNameIsNobody]

3 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

This is the USofA where one can't praise their choice without trashing someone else's.

It doesn’t have to be that way, but I could not agree more with your assessment.

[Bravoman]

As I have said before, I love my Mooney but would'nt want to ride in the back for an extended period, even in a long body.

[Bob - S50]

When looking at Bonanza's ALWAYS check the CG with your planned load.

When looking at Mooney J's ALWAYS ask about the useful load.

Before we bought our J, I considered part of a V35B but passed when a sample loading showed I could not even put 4 adults in the plane with no luggage without going out the aft end of the CG envelope.

On the other hand, our J has a useful load of 970 lbs.  That would let me load your four adults with NO luggage and fly about 480 NM at 160 KTAS on 10 GPH and land with 10 gallons.  But, if they wanted to bring about 20 lbs of luggage each, I could only cruise about 260 NM and still land with 10 gallons.  That's a stop about every 90-100 minutes or so.  Not too practical for a long trip.

You might consider finding a partner so you'll have more money to spend which will give you more options like an A36 or C210.

Best of luck.