Roy Halladay/Icon A5 Crash

[Jeff H.]

Roy Halladay (former MLB Pitcher/Cy Young winner) has apparently died in an Icon A5 crash in the Gulf off of Pasco, FL.  

Thoughts with his family first and another blow to Icon in the second . . .

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/11/07/roy-halladay-plane/

http://www.wtsp.com/news/mlb-pitcher-roy-halladay-killed-in-gulf-of-mexico-plane-crash/489944976

Edited November 7, 2017 by Jeff H.

[gsengle]

Wow another Icon crash? Not sure they can withstand many more... very sad.


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[N6758N]

Damn, a sad day here in Philly. This is coming out just after Icon announced a 50% price increase on their aircraft. Not good for them.

[Marauder]

And I think he was the first delivery (October 12th) of the 2018 model year Founder’s Edition. His wife's comments are haunting.

 

 

Icon pulled down the video....

 

 

[Raptor05121]

jeeze...

[aviatoreb]

Wow this product is having problems.  First that crazy contract structure that chased off a lot of well meaning deposits.  It is a beautiful concept for a plane.  But somehow they are marketing it as dummy proof.  Could that be causing people to let down their guard?

Such a sad thing another loss.

Why would they increase price all of a sudden 50%.  Is that another instance if them feeling fantastic about themselves like when they made a contract structure requiring all sorts of unreasonable things for new owners of new airplanes?

[Bob_Belville]

We were with @mooneygirl in Tampa (AOPA Fly-In) last week and across from us on the exhibitor line were 2 A5s. I wonder if one of them belonged to Halladay.

[KSMooniac]

Why would they increase price all of a sudden 50%.  Is that another instance if them feeling fantastic about themselves like when they made a contract structure requiring all sorts of unreasonable things for new owners of new airplanes?

They had to redesign the plane to make it buildable in a serial production environment. With composite planes this must be done as part of the original design, which they apparently did not do. They also decided to create a new factory to make parts at the last minute. Another mistake. All of that drives costs way up.

This is going to be a PR disaster... This was exactly the type of buyer they're trying to capture, and crashing the first premium delivery with a celebrity customer might kill their company. It will be interesting to learn of his total experience, what kind of factory training was done, and especially what the flight recorder reveals. I feel terrible for his family, especially the wife that was against the purchase. He was a relatively new pilot. The A5 is pitched as a fun and safe plane with good manners...so safe that it will just barely kill you.

I bet they'll go bankrupt and some entity will purchase the assets, shed the debt, and try to make a go of it. That seems to be the only way new GA planes get to market anymore.

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[ArtVandelay]

No way would I buy an existing manufacturer, especially with recent crashes. You take on liability and get very little in return. Today’s market name recognition doesn’t mean that much.

[FoxMike]

Really sorry to hear this.  Roy's dad flies along with our Wednesday lunch group on occasion.

[rbridges]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

And I think he was the first delivery (October 12th) of the 2018 model year Founder’s Edition. His wife's comments are haunting.

 

 

Icon pulled down the video....

 

 

I was watching a video.  He had #1 of 1000 Founder's Editions.

[Marauder]

I was watching a video.  He had #1 of 1000 Founder's Editions.

 

Yeah, the Icon video showed the #1 plate with his name on it. The original video showing this was pulled down but there is a copy on YouTube posted by someone else.

 

 

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[Raptor05121]

Here is a copy on Yahoo. So morbid watching his wife say she was scared of him flying, and then the actual aircraft. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/plane-roy-halladay-flying-jet-ski-wings-234327786.html

RIP brother.

Video shows the plane wing-level sunk a few feet. Can't see any obvious deformation to the structure. I wonder what happened.

[rbridges]

The Yahoo video is where I saw it, too.  So strange to watch it knowing what happened. 

[DXB]

Ouch - just horrible.  A tragedy for  pilot and family, as usual.

This one is a blow to aviation as well - a stellar, well-liked pitcher destined for the Hall of Fame, living out a dream in retirement as a newly minted sport pilot. The literal poster boy for the marketing dept. of an innovative manufacturer  invested in revitalizing GA.

If history repeats, fault will not be with the engineers and builders but shared among  pilot, his mentors, and those slick marketing folks. Of course just speculating- I've no real clue.

 The guy at the bar next to me just saw the news on tv  and said "when I get rich, I am definitely not buying a plane." I almost started a conversation but lost the heart.

[kerry]

I just read Kathryn's report for N672BA that had a water crash landing last April.  Maybe not real forgiving in landing configuration.  I don't know much about plane other than it's very cool looking.  One thing I'm wondering is if it flips over in the water how do you get out of it.

[rpcc]

This link is worth the read - I especially like the theory that shifting product liability from the manufacturer the pilot will reduce the accident rate.  read down to the discussion of moral hazard - https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/march/31/icon-gambit

[DXB]

6 hours ago, DXB said:

 - a stellar, well-liked pitcher destined for the Hall of Fame, living out a dream in retirement as a newly minted sport pilot. 

Correction- turns out he was actually an 800 hr instrument rated private pilot- not really a brand spanking new sport pilot, just new to the plane

[kpaul]

14 minutes ago, DXB said:

Correction- turns out he was actually an 800 hr instrument rated private pilot- not really a brand spanking new sport pilot, just new to the plane

He did not get his license until 2014, a year after retirement.  So he had logged about 160-200 hours per year.  I saw a quote where he told his dad that flying the Icon low over the water makes you feel like your flying a fighter.  Low level operations can be very unforgiving, although this may have nothing to do with the accident. 

[Jeff_S]

Too soon to speculate on the cause. But I know that when the ICON was first announced, my boss at the time (also a pilot) and I became very concerned about how it was being marketed. The video was showing it as a water toy with lots of low flight over the water, sweeping turns...exactly like a "fighter pilot".  Sure was thrilling.  But also brought into question how this plane would be used.

I know ICON put a very stringent training program in place so we assume Hallyday went through that.  I wonder (just me speculating) if having solid flight experience might actually be a detriment in this plane.  "Flying just like a fighter pilot" when you don't have the years of training and backup safety systems that fighter pilots enjoy may be just the recipe for disaster.  Someone with less experience would (hopefully) treat the endeavor with more caution until the appropriate competence level is achieved.

But hey, history is rife with examples of Type A personalities who achieved success in one milieu and translated that into flaming death in another.  The Beech Bonanza had such a reputation for quite a long time, which it finally outlasted.

[gsxrpilot]

The "flying low over the water like a fighter pilot" got me thinking as well. I can easily imagine clipping a wing tip on a swell in the open ocean which at high speed could certainly be catastrophic.

[carqwik]

Big pelicans around Tampa Bay.  My theory...

[Mark89114]

My understanding is that float/amphib operations are hazardous in general.  Thought I saw a statistic that a vast majority of them have been in incidents/accidents.  Just the nature of it I guess.

[steingar]

Things been marketed like a toy, a jet ski with wings.  Big surprise there's crashes.  Unless they tighten up their training and advertising  you can expect to see more of these sorts of crashes, if they stay in operation.  I wouldn't be surprised if no one would insure them ala Evolution.  Thing is, they really can't change much of what they do.  Their whole business model revolves around the aircraft being an expensive toy.  It isn't all that good for serious transportation.  What kind of toy is it going to be if it isn't fun to fly?

[BKlott]

Local news reported the following:

Witnesses to Tuesday's crash described the plane flying low.

"From my house to the top of the trees, (the plane) went past a little ways over the trees, hung a left and then tilted to the left into the water," Michael Lennon said.

Leslie Southard said smoke was coming from the engine.

"(It was) flying really low, and you could just tell it was going down," she said of the plane.