Garmin GTN650 or Avidyne IFD440

[Desertdoc75]

I'm upgrading my non-waas 430 and adding ADS-B out and would like to invite opinions on which of the following setups is optimal and why. I'm looking specifically for install time and cost.

 

Garmin GTN650 w/ GTX335 Transponder (already have a GDL-39 3D) (w/ GNS-430 trade in)

<OR>

Avidyne IFD440 w/ AXP340/Skytrax 100

Not that it really plays a part outside of my OCD, but the audio panel is a GMA340. (w/GNS-430 trade in)

 

Let me know your thoughts!

[Bryan]

Sounds like an oil discussion - everyone has their favorites.

I went with Garmin.  I had dual 430s (non-waas) and upgraded to a GTN 750 with a GTX 345 for my ADSB.  The 650 and 750 have the ability to cross talk to a 430 but i use my (single) 430 as just a Nav/Com and GPS backup.

Garmin's are more expensive.  The Touch interface is very intuitive on the 750 and 650 - I love it.

[PTK]

I'd definitely go with Garmin. There's no comparison. When you are making this decision and committing this level of expenditure you are really investing in the company behind it. It is important for me that the company is invested in my needs as well. Garmin is synonymous with leader in avionics who is committed to general aviation needs. 

Also don't underestimate the fact that the gps/nav/comm is the foundation which supports your entire panel. You want this foundation to be strong and future looking.

I went with the GTN 750 along with remote transponder and audio panel. You will love the GTN650!

[wishboneash]

I am in the Garmin camp as well. When I wanted to upgrade my 430 (non-WAAS) with a problematic knob several years ago, I had no choice and Avidyne was vaporware. I am happy with the GTN-650 and will continue to stay with Garmin as long as I own this plane. Everything on my panel talks well together  - the GDL-88, 696, GDL-39, GMA 340 and Garmin Pilot. The last bit is to add the FS510 for the connectivity/update ease. I guess if you were to start from scratch, the Avidyne is a compelling option.

[stevesm20b]

If I had a 430 I would go with the IFD440. From scratch the GTN650 would be my choice. I have the 650 now and it has a slightly larger screen than the 440.

[mccdeuce]

I had a 430 and went the 440 route. 

Overall I am quite happy with the product that Avidyne has put out. And I believe they stand behind it and are dedicated to supporting the product. 

What I don't like - foreflight at the moment does not take advantage of the full data stream (ADSB WX and traffic) and my SkyTrax does not receive both bands on the traffic. 

For me - I like the IFD interface. So go to an avionics shop that has both and play with both. See what you like. 

Mark

[PTK]

I can only speak about the GTN750 because that's what I have and compare it to the 540.

The 540 display is 4.75" x 3.5", 307000 pixels with a 5.7" diagonal. Only 0.2" larger diagonal than a GNS530.

The GTN750 is 4.46" x 5.27" with a huge 6.9" diagonal, 425000 pixels. 

The 750 has 30% more pixels than 540.

I imagine the 650 similarly has more pixels than the 440.

[bradp]

I just played with a demo version of the IFD440 on a stand in an FBO.  I liked it.   It was petty intuitive.  I liked the iPad demo of the 540 a bit better.  I'd put them side by side and see which one you "interface" with better.   Based on my experience with the demo unit I'd be willing to give the 650 a good once over.  Maybe my analogy would be mac (gamrin UI) vs windows (avidyne ui).  Both have there relative benefits and deficiencies.  

The install cost of the 440 is essentially nil.  You could log the change yourself and be done in an hour.   If your airplane has old antennas or wiring this will be a necessary addition to the overall install cost   

If you have a 430 -> 650 upgrade you will need to change the rack (mines riveted in. Who thought that would be a good idea?) and it will need to be repinned for the new connector orientation.  That will take at least a couple or more of amus. 

[Godfather]

Many times at Oshkosh the larger manufacturers have substantial rebates on the units you are currently looking at.  I purchased my 750/650 around 5 years ago and had both installed for around the same price as the 540/440. 

[pirate]

I originally had a GX55. Since I was doing a complete install I spent almost  a year playing with Garmin and Avidyne. In the end I chose Avidyne IFD 540 MLB 100 and AXP 340 and after a year since my install  I feel it was worth every single penny over Garmin. Since every ones  different the best thing you can do is get into a plane and fly both for at least a few hours.

[M016576]

You get far more out of an IFD440 or 540 for your dollar than you do a GTN.

 

the 440/540 come with wifi and Bluetooth, plus an iPad app that controls them.  Foreflight, FlyQ and wingx all work with the 440/540... with the GTN you are restricted to Garmin pilot (edit: flightstream 210 works with foreflight as well), and that's only if you buy and install a flight stream.

i like the avidyne interface better.

and despite what PTK says, avidyne is a well established Avionics company that has been providing quality Avionics for decades- they aren't going anywhere.

edit: if you have a 430 or 530 already, you immediately realize 2-3K of saved installation cost, as well.   

In the plus column for Garmin- their screen size is larger.  In the minus side for Garmin- pretty much everything else... and honestly, I don't even use the screen all that much on my 440 now that 10.2 is out: I do all my manipulation of the GPS and radios through the ipad.  And the iPad has a sharper, larger screen than the 750...

the easy way to fix your audio panel problem is to buy a PS Engineering Bluetooth audio panel and sell your GMA340.  Most of the PS engineering units are plug and play with the Garmin tray... and they provide as good, if not better quality of an audio panel.

Edited June 9, 2017 by M016576

[amillet]

GTN 750 with flight stream 210 works well with Foreflight.

13 minutes ago, M016576 said:

the GTN you are restricted to Garmin pilot, and that's only if you buy the flight stream.

 

[xcrmckenna]

I switched out my 430w with the IFD440 5 hours after I bought my plane in March and have been super happy with it. I have about 30 hours on it now all vfr and really look forward to start ifr training with it. Very intuitive.

I will be installing the AXP340 and the skytrax100 later this year.

If the 650 had been plug and play with the 430 I might have gone that route but not one complaint about the Avidyne. I just wish I could fly more....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[co2bruce]

I went Garmin when I had this choice. I actually had a deposit in on a 440 and after a year and a half of delays and excuses I took my money back and went Garmin. Love the unit, never a problem. I switched from Foreflight to Garmin pilot and find they are very comparable. I do use my iPad and flightstream and am very happy with the desision. YMMV.

i recommend talking to you avionics guy about both units and get some insight on repairs, warranty, and the company behind them.

[M016576]

9 hours ago, amillet said:

GTN 750 with flight stream 210 works well with Foreflight.

 

I stand corrected

[rbridges]

I've looked at both but only casual glances.  Right now, I'm in the avidyne camp since I have a 430 and it's a plug and play situation.  When the time comes, I'll do more research, but the garmin would have to knock my socks off to make me pick it over the avidyne.  I've read most of the threads, and I've yet to see someone have buyers remorse with either choice.

[NotarPilot]

On 6/7/2017 at 11:27 AM, PTK said:

 

I went with the GTN 750 along with remote transponder and audio panel. You will love the GTN650!

I've used the GTN650 quite a bit at work. I most certainly do not love it. Just curious but how many hours do you have behind the Avidynes?

Like other have stated, the IFDs come with wifi and Bluetooth. You want that with the 650 or 750, well please fork over some more cash for either the flightstream 210 or 510. 

[donkaye]

2 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

Like other have stated, the IFDs come with wifi and Bluetooth. You want that with the 650 or 750, well please fork over some more cash for either the flightstream 210 or 510. 

The benefit of the FS 210 as a separate unit is that if the GPS fails, you have a backup AHRS to use with an iPad or Aera 796.

[NotarPilot]

Just now, donkaye said:

The benefit of the FS 210 as a separate unit is that if the GPS fails, you have a backup AHRS to use with an iPad of Aera 796.

I know, I had the FS210 when I had my 430s. It's a great product and I really liked it. I was making a point that, IMHO, the IFDs seem to be a better complete package being that wifi and Bluetooth are included in the box and you don't need to purchase a separate product to enable that technology.  I paid about $1800 for the FS210 including the installation costs.  

Now I realize the GTNs are a little older and were developed before the Avidynes but Bluetooth and wifi has been around for a while and I'm puzzled why Garmin did not elect to incorporate this technology in their new Premier GPS navigators. 

[Godfather]

1 minute ago, NotarPilot said:

Now I realize the GTNs are a little older and were developed before the Avidynes but Bluetooth and wifi has been around for a while and I'm puzzled why Garmin did not elect to incorporate this technology in their new Premier GPS navigators. 

Or provide the 510 unit for a reasonable cost of ~$500...might be a market for a 310 model that provided flight plan transfer and nothing else. 

[Bob_Belville]

2 minutes ago, Godfather said:

Or provide the 510 unit for a reasonable cost of ~$500...might be a market for a 310 model that provided flight plan transfer and nothing else. 

The FS510 is about $1000, "installed". The pricing change from Garmin last year saved me about what the 510 cost. It is pretty slick. With Garmin Pilot on an Android tablet and a smart phone, data, charts, etc. are downloaded to the tablet and the phone automatically at home and then quickly uploaded to the 750. the same files are on the portable 696 giving tremendous redundancy. Then in flight the traffic and weather that the GDL88 feeds to the 750 shows on the Garman Pilot app on the tablet and phone.

 Happy camper.

[Godfather]

I'm a foreflight user so the data download feature would go unused. It would be nice though not to worry about upload the data every month. 

 

I find the 750 cards take awhile to download with the charts. How fast does it DL in the plane over wifi?

Edited June 11, 2017 by Godfather

[Bob_Belville]

The charts upload from the phone to the 750 though the FS510 quite fast. A couple of minutes maybe. Much faster than the same charts move from the SD card to the 696. And I still have to take the 696's SD card home to use fly.garmin.

[MIm20c]

I've been looking at the 440 to replace my 430w.  Also thinking about picking up a used fs210 for around $600.  Should be a fairly easy install and cheaper than the upgrade to the 440. 

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, NotarPilot said:

 Now I realize the GTNs are a little older and were developed before the Avidynes but Bluetooth and wifi has been around for a while and I'm puzzled why Garmin did not elect to incorporate this technology in their new Premier GPS navigators. 

For us purchasers of the FS 210 Garmin had a program where the FS 510 cost $995.  Obviously, as a multimedia Card, there was no installation charges.  So the GTNs now have WiFi for database transfers and Bluetooth for everything else.  Pretty smart of Garmin to do that.  There is nothing that the IFDs can do that I am interested in having that the GTNs can't do, and they are less cluttered and have a larger screen.  Additionally the GTN 750 has Telligence with the GMA 35 so you hardly ever have to even touch the screen except to flip frequencies.  The IFDs don't have that capability.  I'm sure those who like the IFDs are glad they bought them and those of us who chose Garmin feel the same way about our products.