Is Mooney suitable for learning how to fly?

[bradp]

If you're set on it, start looking for a Brand M. Long bodies require slightly different landing technique. 

 

I'd recommend doing primary training in an Arrow while you look for a Mooney.  It will ease the transition significantly, you'll have high performance and retract time, and you can beat up someone else's landing gear while you learn how to land.  

 

You need to have well above average landing technique for your average student pilot to land a Mooney acceptably ... on average.   This is important because off speed and forcing the plane on the ground can / will result in a prop strike.   

 

Brad

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

If you're set on it, start looking for a Brand M. Long bodies require slightly different landing technique. 

 

I'd recommend doing primary training in an Arrow while you look for a Mooney.  It will ease the transition significantly, you'll have high performance and retract time, and you can beat up someone else's landing gear while you learn how to land.  

 

You need to have well above average landing technique for your average student pilot to land a Mooney acceptably ... on average.   This is important because off speed and forcing the plane on the ground can / will result in a prop strike.   

 

Brad

I owned a Diamond DA40 from about my 75hr point through about 350hrs when I got my M20k.  It was a really good transition airplane as it turns out, and makes a really good primary trainer too. Or even a DA20.  Low wing - likes to float like a mooney if you are too fast.  Sort of a more forgiving version of the same thing, and doesn't drop like a rock when you cut power like a cherokee.

[pinerunner]

I'd get my private first and then go after the Mooney, especially since you're already in a school. If you've got enough $$ to be looking at the, higher end, more powerful, Mooneys like the M20K,  the expense of the training shouldn't be an issue.  Mooneys have rather stiff landing gear so I'd want my landings down in the more forgiving planes before doing the transition. Once I had the private then I wouldn't be shy about going to the plane I really want long term. It is possible of course to start in a Mooney but why make it harder on yourself at such an early stage?

[Andy95W]

Beat the crap out of somebody else's airplane while you're learning how to land.  Do your solo cross country flights with somebody else paying for the insurance.

The day after you get your license, start looking for your Mooney.  An M20C is a very reasonable step-up from a Cessna or Piper.

[chrisk]

My thoughts are to learn on a trainer.   Right now, my wife is taking lessons to the point where she can land a plane. It's not in my plane, and here is why:

• A trainer is cheaper per hour, even when I own a Mooney already.  Right now she is in a 172 at $130 per hour wet and including the instructor.
• She can stall and spin in a trainer.  How many of you would feel comfortable with a student entering an uncoordinated stall in your plane?
• She will bounce that 152 off the runway a few times.
• She can flat spot the tires on that plane.
• She will not have a prop strike on a 152
• I have a turbo, training can be a bit hard on it.

Now, after my wife gets good enough to solo, I might think about a switch to the Mooney.

[steingar]

Training in a Mooney is doable, but I wouldn't make it my first airplane ownership experience.  Mooneys are a bit rare on the ground (see my thread trying to find a CFI in my home town who could instruct in one) and have a  few airframe specific issues.  Aircraft ownership comes complete with lots and lots of issues,  Mooneys have quite a few of their own.  I love mine, but I'm glad its my last airplane and not my first one.

[Conrad]

I'm doing this thing. The people who can say it can be done are right. I initially thought insurance would be the deciding factor, but I got insurance for under 2k with 10 hrs in a 152. Join MAPA and call Falcon Insurance if you go through with it. Note also that the reasons people discourage you from doing this (it will take longer, it will not actually be cheaper) are quite valid too.

I repeat, it will not actually be cheaper.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Conrad

[C-GHIJ]

19 minutes ago, Conrad said:

I'm doing this thing. The people who can say it can be done are right. I initially thought insurance would be the deciding factor, but I got insurance for under 2k with 10 hrs in a 152. Join MAPA and call Falcon Insurance if you go through with it. Note also that the reasons people discourage you from doing this (it will take longer, it will not actually be cheaper) are quite valid too.

I repeat, it will not actually be cheaper.

If your goal is to learn as cheaply as possible, go rent.......airplane ownership is NOT cheap.  I didn't buy mine to learn on to save money, I bought it to have a good aircraft (not the one that was available at the time from the flight school) and have it there when I wanted it.   Most rentals are beat to crap. 

The one advantage is you will definitely be more cautious with your own aircraft.  Definitely find an instructor that knows Mooney's.

Like Conrad, I too got insurance as a student through COPA for under 2K.  They put a minimum number of dual hours before I could solo (30 hrs) but that was no big deal.

[M20F]

35 minutes ago, C-GHIJ said:

If your goal is to learn as cheaply as possible, go rent.......airplane ownership is NOT cheap. 

Sure it is.  You can buy a C150 and plow through your PPL and break even, get your commercial/instrument you can make money at it.  The problem is people confuse love with common sense (gets us in trouble in all sorts of ways), if you are smart enough to recognize the difference you do ok.  

[Guest]

I have a client who finished her ppl in a 152, but before she finished had bought a G1000 FIKI Ovation.  She jumped out of the 152 and into the Ovation and put on 100 incident free hours in her first year.  

Clarence

[Conrad]

26 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I have a client who finished her ppl in a 152, but before she finished had bought a G1000 FIKI Ovation.  She jumped out of the 152 and into the Ovation and put on 100 incident free hours in her first year.  

I'm not voicing any doubt in your client or her abilities, but to me that seems like potentially a way riskier way to enter the Mooney community than training in an E or a C. (edit: or F, or G or J...)

Edited January 29, 2016 by Conrad

[Shadrach]

22 hours ago, cnoe said:

You might find that contrary to your assumption, learning in your own Mooney won't necessarily be more economical than renting a trainer. A recent thread examines the hourly cost of flying (a Mooney) and I'm pretty sure you can rent a Brand C or P trainer for less.

And all it takes is one porpoised landing to add considerable time and cost to your training. Wait until you're licensed and then buy the plane you really want.

Just my opinion.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I figure my Mooney around $125hr wet. It would be less throttled back for training. A wet 172 or Warrior is going to run about the same.

[Shadrach]

57 minutes ago, Conrad said:

I'm not voicing any doubt in your client or her abilities, but to me that seems like potentially a way riskier way to enter the Mooney community than training in an E or a C. (edit: or F, or G or J...)

Do yo think an Ovation is harder to Fly than the older birds?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Conrad said:

I'm not voicing any doubt in your client or her abilities, but to me that seems like potentially a way riskier way to enter the Mooney community than training in an E or a C. (edit: or F, or G or J...)

In my opinion it's a matter of training.  At one point the RCAF put pilots from a basic trainer and then their first jet was an F104, again training.

Clarence

Edited January 29, 2016 by M20Doc

[gsengle]

57 minutes ago, Conrad said: I'm not voicing any doubt in your client or her abilities, but to me that seems like potentially a way riskier way to enter the Mooney community than training in an E or a C. (edit: or F, or G or J...)

Do yo think an Ovation is harder to Fly than the older birds?

I'm an Ovation pilot and yes, the speeds and weights are higher. Probably less margin to bending the gear too... And a little nose heavy with just two front seaters... Hard to slow down.

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[Yetti]

There is no dual instruction in a F-18.  Think about that one.   Solo in a trainer., finish up in the mooney

 

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, gsengle said:

I'm an Ovation pilot and yes, the speeds and weights are higher. Probably less margin to bending the gear too... And a little nose heavy with just two front seaters... Hard to slow down.

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A chunky friend took his PPL checkride in a squaretail 172, with ~50 lbs of books in the back. Lots of ways to lessen nose heaviness.

[mooniac15u]

 

There is no dual instruction in a F-18.  Think about that one.   Solo in a trainer., finish up in the mooney

 

The F/A-18B is a two seat trainer. 

http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.displayPlatform&key=32F08227-0DE1-437F-93AB-C7241517AA8D

[M20F]

3 hours ago, M20Doc said:

In my opinion it's a matter of training.  At one point the RCAF put pilots from a basic trainer and then their first jet was an F104, again training.

Clarence

Not all the pilots though moved from the trainer to the F104, a fair chunk of them washed out.  

[cnoe]

It wasn't that long ago that I was a student pilot myself. As the owner/PIC of a Mooney I'm concerned with such things as proper leaning (ground and airborne), avoiding the "red box", balancing the tanks, managing the prop, monitoring the JPI, assuring gear down (no touch-and-goes), nailing approach/landing speed, etc. so it seems like simply "learning to fly" would be much easier in a simple trainer.

On the other hand buying your own plane prior to Instrument training allows you to get dialed in on the exact setup you'll be using.

If you're certain which plane you ultimately want to own then it might make some sense to buy early, but I believe purchasing a complex as a student will slow the process down. Also buying a plane is often a months-long endeavor that would likely slow the learning process further. Ultimately you have to do what's right for you.

I guess I've now contributed my $0.04 total.

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[kpaul]

7 hours ago, cnoe said:

no touch-and-goes

I have heard this before on this forum, but why?    Where is the coming from?

 

[carusoam]

This comes from an expensive limitations of the human brain...

Doing TnGs increases the level of work/stress/risk of error without a significant increase in experience.

If you are renting somebody else's plane and every tic of the Hobb's meter counts, there may be a difference.

When you own a Mooney TnGs are not so appealing.

do a search on touch and goes for the full array of reasoning for both sides.

It is a risk vs. reward argument that usually comes to the limit of the reward for the increased level of risk.

Best regards,

-a-

[C-GHIJ]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

This comes from an expensive limitations of the human brain...

Doing TnGs increases the level of work/stress/risk of error without a significant increase in experience.

If you are renting somebody else's plane and every tic of the Hobb's meter counts, there may be a difference.

When you own a Mooney TnGs are not so appealing.

do a search on touch and goes for the full array of reasoning for both sides.

It is a risk vs. reward argument that usually comes to the limit of the reward for the increased level of risk.

Best regards,

-a-

Hogwash.....I did touch and goes till I was blue in the face.    If that's to much work load for the person then they shouldn't be flying.

[kpaul]

I just find it interesting....doing the t&g a "complex" aircraft is no more complex then a C-150.  The gear is down, prop is full forward, mixture is rich, assuming partial flap landing-flaps are set.  That leaves resetting trim just like a trainer.

I have done touch and go's in King Air 200s, PC-12s, C-130s, T-6s and yes my M20F.   It takes slightly more attention if you have landed in a flap setting that is different than what is used for take off since resetting them would require your take eyes off the runway to verify their position.  "Flaps, Trim, Throttle" and as long as you know your take off ground roll and have that much runway remaining you're good.

Is there really less wear and tear on the brakes, tires and engine to come to a stop and taxi back vs pushing the power up while still rolling along at 40-50 mph.

I understand that most aircraft owners do not spend hours in the pattern, but if you are trying to maximize your fuel and hobbs time you loose at least one traffic pattern for each stop/taxi back vs. the t&g for a given amount engine time.

 

[N601RX]

Search for touch and go's. There are some 1st hand accounts of members retracting the gear instead of the flaps.  

Why not practice stop and go's?  There is much more skill  to be learned from that. Make a point to be stopped in the 1st 1000 ft every time.