Insurance companies?

[cnoe]

It's renewal time and I've got quotes from 4 different companies. I've had AIG for the past 2 years but now they're among the 2 highest quotes (I'm told that their premiums increased recently). Avemco was really high (about DOUBLE my lowest quote).

I have good quotes from both Global Aerospace and Old Republic Aerospace and was curious if anybody had anything good or bad to say about either.

The best quote was 35% below the one from AIG so I'll likely go with it if I don't hear anything bad.

Coverages are essentially identical and from what I've heard all the major underwriters pay out on similar terms.

Any thoughts guys and gals?

Cnoe

[cnoe]

... and feel free to PM me if you'd rather not speak publicly about your carrier.

[KSMooniac]

I use a good broker and have changed carriers a few times in 8+ years of ownership so far.  I'm currently with ORA and that is a new name from an older company, but can't remember who they used to be.  Nothing good or bad to say from me since I've not used any of them except to send them a check.  /knocking on wood.

[Raptor05121]

My broker (Air Pros) has me with Starr Aviation Insurance. $1300/yr for an 80 hour pilot with no experience. He said I can probably get it below a grand next year if I fly a lot and work towards IFR.

35k hull ,500k liability

[cnoe]

Thanks for the input guys; anybody else?

From what I read Avemco is the only direct underwriter and all other brokers have the same pool to gather quotes from. I've been using AOPA's Insurance service and I have no complaints about the cost. For reference, with 400+ hours time in type and a recent IFR rating my new quote is just over $1,000 for $90K hull/$1M liability.

I just don't want to find out later that the underwriter is difficult to deal with if by some unfortunate circumstance I have to file a claim.

 

[Hank]

In my experience, Avemco is always really high. But they will give you a ball cap!

I changed to Falcon last year, very happy and no claims ever.

[GeorgePerry]

Try the folks at AOPA insurance.  http://insurance.aopa.org/

[jetdriven]

We have falcon as the broker and the coverage is with Starr.  Around 1300$ with 95k hull and 1mil with sub limits.  They paid a claim fast with no haggling too but from what I hear they all do. 

[DXB]

Starr through Falcon as broker.  I've comparison shopped through AOPA vs Falcon both years I've been an owner, an my quote from Starr has been a tad lower than the lowest AOPA quote both times.  Never heard any complaint about them- MAPA recommends them I think?

[75_M20F]

http://www.falconinsurance.com/

P.O. Box 291388 
Kerrville, TX 78029 
Toll Free: (800) 880-4545 
Phone: (830) 257-1000 
Fax: (830) 792-1144 

I have been using Falcon for over a decade now. Great folks, and for me they have had the best rates as well.

I have been dealing with Cliff Bertholf his email is CBertholf@falconinsurance.com.

One thing I have learned is that if you call around to different agents to get competing quotes it turns out to be a bad idea. Once one underwriter issues a quote for you to one agent, the underwriter blocks quotes for subsequent agents that may contact them to get a rate for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

20 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

I use a good broker and have changed carriers a few times in 8+ years of ownership so far.  I'm currently with ORA and that is a new name from an older company, but can't remember who they used to be.  Nothing good or bad to say from me since I've not used any of them except to send them a check.  /knocking on wood.

Old Republic Aerospace (ORA) used to be Phoenix Aviation Managers.  The change was in May of this year.

 

[cnoe]

More thanks for the info.

Both Falcon and AOPA seem to be good competitive brokers from my past experience. And as Mike mentioned I understand it's counterproductive to pit brokers against each other. My quote from Global (through AOPA) was very good and it sounds like Starr is a fan favorite as well. I'm awaiting word back from the broker to see if they shopped it to Starr as I didn't see them listed on my quote sheet. If AOPA doesn't do business with Starr I might contact Falcon to ask them about that one underwriter.

Interesting note about Old Republic previously being Phoenix. Is that good/bad? They were very competitive but still ~$150 more than Global. I was disappointed to see AIG's price go up from last year; I expected it to go down (particularly with my recent IFR cert).

[cnoe]

Update:

AOPA Insurance did seek a quote from Starr (which seems to be a popular underwriter) and for my situation it was higher than others. Because of this it appears that there's no real need to seek input from another broker.

I will likely go with the less expensive quote as the terms were essentially identical to other underwriters.

I'm very pleased that my recent instrument rating, active flying (184 hours in past 12 months), and increasing total hours amounted to a 29% reduction in my premiums from last year! And from what I hear, underwriter competition is high right now too. At least SOMETHING is going down in cost for pilots. 

 

[DXB]

4 hours ago, cnoe said:

And as Mike mentioned I understand it's counterproductive to pit brokers against each other.

Not sure on that one.  I tried AOPA first and got two quotes, neither from Starr.  Then I tried Falcon and got my best quote from Starr.

[PTK]

AOPA insurance has me with USAIG and they were actually the best quote for 1 million smooth and 120,000 hull. The next best was 200$ higher for same policy.

[laytonl]

I use Falcon for the Mooney and AOPA for the Cherokee.  

I believe we used AOPA when I had a partner in another Mooney.  He had a gear up and the insurance process was painless.

Lee

[StinkBug]

I just got a call from my broker yesterday, about renewal and after looking at some of these numbers I'm not totally impressed with the numbers they gave me. Last year they went with Starr and the premium was $1600 for a 120hr private pilot with a 45k hull value

I'm now a 450hr Instrument rated Commercial ASEL and AMEL with over 300 in type. For the same coverage as last year it dropped to $1100, or $1200 with an increase to $55k hull value. Seems a little high when I see CNOE paying about the same for nearly double the hull value with fairly close times. I really expected it to drop to under a grand this year.

[bradp]

My experience is that Falcon was able to shop for the best rates.  My policy is currently with ORA and I currently have a claim (not an acclaim ha) out with them.  So far so good in dealing with the agency.   NJ flyers can see my pock marked bird next weekend.  

[Mooneymite]

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Mooney_Mike said:

......One thing I have learned is that if you call around to different agents to get competing quotes it turns out to be a bad idea. Once one underwriter issues a quote for you to one agent, the underwriter blocks quotes for subsequent agents that may contact them to get a rate for you.....

 

 

This is absolutely true!

If you want to comparison shop, you have to do it without a name, or N#.  Once your N# gets put into the system, the rates are locked in and there will be no meaningful shopping from other brokers.  It takes about three months for the data to drop out, best I can tell.

I discovered this early on.  I'm not sure if this would stand up to scrutiny by the FTC, but the insurance companies have been operating this way for years.

[ArtVandelay]

Commercial ratings do nothing for your insurance rates, as per my broker. Costs may depend on area you fly in.

[ArtVandelay]

I use Falcon for the Mooney and AOPA for the Cherokee.  

I believe we used AOPA when I had a partner in another Mooney.  He had a gear up and the insurance process was painless.

Lee

Anybody had any claim experiences with Falcon?

When I was looking I read

http://www.ravenware.com/factand/nofic/owning/buying.html

and skipped Falcon.

[slowflyin]

On 11/12/2015 at 9:55 PM, Mooney_Mike said:

http://www.falconinsurance.com/

P.O. Box 291388 
Kerrville, TX 78029 
Toll Free: (800) 880-4545 
Phone: (830) 257-1000 
Fax: (830) 792-1144 

I have been using Falcon for over a decade now. Great folks, and for me they have had the best rates as well.

I have been dealing with Cliff Bertholf his email is CBertholf@falconinsurance.com.

One thing I have learned is that if you call around to different agents to get competing quotes it turns out to be a bad idea. Once one underwriter issues a quote for you to one agent, the underwriter blocks quotes for subsequent agents that may contact them to get a rate for you.

 

 

 

+1

 

 

 

[StinkBug]

6 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Commercial ratings do nothing for your insurance rates, as per my broker. Costs may depend on area you fly in.

Funny when I talked to mine yesterday and mentioned the additional ratings (they already knew about the IR) she said it would definitely effect things. I mentioned it before she gave me the numbers though, so I don't know what they would have been without.

[bradp]

8 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Anybody had any claim experiences with Falcon?

When I was looking I read

http://www.ravenware.com/factand/nofic/owning/buying.html

and skipped Falcon.

See above teejay -- so far so good with Falcon.  One thing to note is that when you have a claim it goes through the adjustor for whatever company's policy you purchased through your broker, Avemco excepted, I believe.  So for the policy that Facon brokered for me, I am talking to ORA.  The broker should be able to go to bat for you should you have any issues with your insurance carrier, however.  I didn't realize that was the way it worked until I filed a claim.   

 

Addendum: anyone shopping for insurance this year and has recently installed an AOA probe: was there a discount for having done the install?  It may end up paying for itself over the life of the plane many fold if discounted.  I wonder if other safety related installs are at all discounted - airbags, shoulder harnesses, etc.  Has anyone asked? 

[MyNameIsNobody]

8 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Anybody had any claim experiences with Falcon?

When I was looking I read

http://www.ravenware.com/factand/nofic/owning/buying.html

and skipped Falcon.

Do you work for AOPA?  What a B.S. hit-piece.  Falcon is an Agency/Broker NOT the Carrier.  I found AOPA to be a horrible experience personally.  NOT customer oriented AT ALL.  About as friendly as a car salesman...after the sale.  They had me with AIG.  I saved money going to Falcon and Global.  This renewal after being BACK with AIG through Falcon we found that AIG was $300 higher for same coverage over Global Aerospace.  $1200 for renewal with two pilots on policy and $70 hull.  1 Million/$100,000 per.  Falcon did a good job for us at renewal finding us a savings and doing business through e-mail vs. snail-mail.  All good.

AOPA will have a hard time "winning" us back.