frcabot Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Finally happened today. Was up with two first time passengers flying from KOAK to KSMO and engine failed near KBFL. I was climbing and in the middle of adjusting the mixture and all of a sudden the engine noise changed pretty drastically, started getting bad vibrations and the EGT and CHT needles dropped to the cold peg. Made an emergency landing safely at KBFL, and engine cut out shortly before landing. Oil temps, oil pressure and fuel pressure were normal throughout and manifold pressure/RPMs were also normal. Any idea what this sounds like? Given that I was in the middle of adjusting the mixture, and given the extreme cooling of the engine, I wonder if a fuel hose might have broken off? I'll have a mechanic look at it on Monday but wondering what the likely suspects are. Plane got a clean annual in August and compressions were good. It's too bad because needless to say, my passengers aren't especially keen to ever go flying again. Edit: Model is 1982 M20J Second edit: Cause was broken valve on #3 cylinder, which damaged piston. Now considering where to overhaul engine, which is 2100 SMOH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishboneash Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Glad to see you made it to the ground safely! And very fortunate this didn't happen over the mountains. Congrats and glad you didn't have to pull the chute :-). Sounds like a fuel flow or contamination issue. Did you try switching mags or tanks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted November 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Yes, no effect. And thanks. I think it's more likely to be something like Fuel mixture given that the fuel pressure was normal. Fuel contamination is unlikely since I filled up prior to the accident flight and sumped. Edit: Broken valve on No. 3 cylinder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted November 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Actually, I'm thinking maybe clogged fuel injector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney in Oz Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 If your ignition (key entry) is still original and never changed then check its condition. Have your mechanic dismantle it slowly and look for evidence of arcing. Had a similar issue nearly 8 years ago just as you describe. It was not conclusive, but definitely the smoking gun. Even if it is found not to be the culprit, change it anyway to the newer type. At the time of my incident, the only country in the world to have an AD on the original ignition was New Zealand. It called for an inspection every 500 hours. If you have an EDM or similar then download the data. Victor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 2 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said: If your ignition (key entry) is still original and never changed then check its condition. Have your mechanic dismantle it slowly and look for evidence of arcing. Had a similar issue nearly 8 years ago just as you describe. It was not conclusive, but definitely the smoking gun. Even if it is found not to be the culprit, change it anyway to the newer type. At the time of my incident, the only country in the world to have an AD on the original ignition was New Zealand. It called for an inspection every 500 hours. If you have an EDM or similar then download the data. Victor How do you tell if you have the newer type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Armour Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Great job getting it down ! It's nice to hear stories with good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Check the bolts holding the magneto. If they get loose the mag may get out of timing. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 11 hours ago, frcabot said: Finally happened today. Was up with two first time passengers flying from KOAK to KSMO and engine failed near KBFL. I was climbing and in the middle of adjusting the mixture and all of a sudden the engine noise changed pretty drastically, started getting bad vibrations and the EGT and CHT needles dropped to the cold peg. Made an emergency landing safely at KBFL, and engine cut out shortly before landing. Oil temps, oil pressure and fuel pressure were normal throughout and manifold pressure/RPMs were also normal. Any idea what this sounds like? Given that I was in the middle of adjusting the mixture, and given the extreme cooling of the engine, I wonder if a fuel hose might have broken off? I'll have a mechanic look at it on Monday but wondering what the likely suspects are. Plane got a clean annual in August and compressions were good. It's too bad because needless to say, my passengers aren't especially keen to ever go flying again. Sounds like something happened to the mixture control to me. If you were leaning, I wonder if the cable broke and it kept sliding towards lean. Let us know what is discovered. Nice job on getting down safely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 lost a mag. Lost #3 cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Let me add a well done on a safe outcome hopefully your passengers will see that even when it goes bad it's not always a story for the evening news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 7 hours ago, peevee said: How do you tell if you have the newer type? http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/AOCADSearch/C14960A415D956BD86256E520053A53E?OpenDocument I doubt this is your problem, but here is the answer to your question. The common ignition switch replacement is a Medeco switch. It has a large key with "Medeco" on the key head. Original ignition switch is a Bendix. It has a small key similar in size to the door key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 1 hour ago, BillC said: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/AOCADSearch/C14960A415D956BD86256E520053A53E?OpenDocument I doubt this is your problem, but here is the answer to your question. The common ignition switch replacement is a Medeco switch. It has a large key with "Medeco" on the key head. Original ignition switch is a Bendix. It has a small key similar in size to the door key. I suspect we have the old one then. Hope it isn't what caused my mag issue a few weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 FRC, Today, we celebrate! Congratulations on being able to quickly write about the initial situation. If your guests go flying again. It will be with you, a proven Mooney pilot! Good luck with the next steps, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXB Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 We all dread this - very glad you and your passengers are ok. Great job getting down, and thank you for sharing the story - please let us know what is found as it helps everyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Good job! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney in Oz Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 12 hours ago, peevee said: How do you tell if you have the newer type? The newer type is larger and what you see in the later model Ovations or Acclaims. The key also has 'Medeco' on the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 All three of my keys (baggage, cabin door, ignition) are about the size of a Master lock key. Sounds like the Medeco keys are bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 10 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said: The newer type is larger and what you see in the later model Ovations or Acclaims. The key also has 'Medeco' on the front. all of our keys are copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted November 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Mechanic is taking a look today hopefully so I'll let you know. By the way, the audio is posted on liveatc, the kbfl archive Nov 7 at 2330Z. Starts about 15:45 in (the initial radio calls were on 121.5 and I had a guard nazi yell “you're on guarddddd" to me, I replied “I knowwww," lulz). http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbfl/KBFL-Nov-07-2015-2330Z.mp3 Basically the conditions were ideal because this happened during the day, in good visibility, at high altitude (11k feet), within 25 miles of a large airport (KBFL), and I only lost partial engine power at first so had time to react before total engine failure. Had I been flying at night over unlit, mountainous terrain, this could have ended altogether differently. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Damn good job! Tip of the hat to you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Great to see you and everyone are OK. Great job, thanks for not becoming a statistic and making your wife cry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 On 11/8/2015, 4:14:34, frcabot said: Actually, I'm thinking maybe clogged fuel injector? I experienced a clogged injector earlier this year, and while the engine ran rough and shook like a SOB, it continued to generate enough power to maintain altitude until it cleared, which according to the JPI, was 40 (long) seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 On 11/8/2015, 3:14:34, frcabot said: Actually, I'm thinking maybe clogged fuel injector? If it was a clogged injector you should have only seen CHT/EGT drop on one cylinder, do you have multi probe EGT/CHT gauge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyBob Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Brrr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.