F16 and a C150 mid-air near Charleston...

[Browncbr1]

yikes... 

http://myfox8.com/2015/07/07/329028/

 

Anyone know if this seems to have happened inside GAMECOCK MOA airspace?

[1964-M20E]

I heard about this too seems that the F-16 pilot is OK but nothing regarding our fine in the C-150.

[Marauder]

Not good. Probably not much left of the 150 if it could bring a F16 down.

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[Browncbr1]

by the report, it seems this actually may have happened inside C airspace... 

[Browncbr1]

I just saw another article that says the F16 wreckage is in Moncks Corner, which is right next to KMKS...  It appears a military instrument training route goes right over that airport as it turns south.. IR18

[N201MKTurbo]

I'm sure they are going to say that the C150 mistakenly got in the way of the F16 while doing T/G at his local airport....

 

It is dangerous having all those little planes flying around like that.

 

I'm sure the F16 driver feels terrible about what he did.

[BKlott]

I would be very interested to know the altitude and airspeed of the F16 at the time of this accident.

[Danb]

I'm absolutely going to say something with no merit and in no way has anything to do with this tragedy ..on more than one occasion (I used to own a condo in Myrtle beach ) ..I had what a thought were f16 's utilizing my plane as a target and was frightened on more than one occasion. What occurred once 2 F-16's blew one over top of me and one under me close enough for me to see inside of the planes, now this was at least 10+ yrs ago, but this accident brought up horrible thoughts and images..clearly no accusations but is there any possibility the military craft was buzzing or honing in on the little plane for practice? Just a thought...

[bradp]

I'm absolutely going to say something with no merit and in no way has anything to do with this tragedy ..on more than one occasion (I used to own a condo in Myrtle beach ) ..I had what a thought were f16 's utilizing my plane as a target and was frightened on more than one occasion. What occurred once 2 F-16's blew one over top of me and one under me close enough for me to see inside of the planes, now this was at least 10+ yrs ago, but this accident brought up horrible thoughts and images..clearly no accusations but is there any possibility the military craft was buzzing or honing in on the little plane for practice? Just a thought...

I once had the $hit scared out of me departing BCB, which also has a training route running right through it. I was just climbing out of pattern altitude when two jets crossed under me from behind at what I would describe as 2-3 times my groundspeed a couple of hundred feet below. Nothing on CTAF.

To the military guys ... What rules govern flight along military training routes? Airspeed below 250 below 10k? Is radar used in conjunction with see an avoid ? Are the routes briefed in terms of what types of traffic you might see near civilian airports? Also ... You would think these things would be designed to avoid populated areas and civilian airports.

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[Amelia]

I took off from EDE on an IFR clearance, was1500 feet or more below radar and radio contact with ZDC. I was preparing to punch into the 800-foot overcast over the Albemarle Sound, when a flight of two F/A18s flashed by me a hundred yards ahead. Waggled their wings in a friendly hello, and were gone. I was so startled my skin prickled all over. My greeting back, at least mentally, wasn't so friendly. Scary stuff, that. I just figured they must have known I was there, on their IFF or something, because this airport is in a very deep black hole as far as Center coverage is concerned. I thought I was guaranteed that patch of IFR airspace with my clearance. Guess not. 

[Browncbr1]

When I was younger, my grandfather was flying us through snowbird MOA and two fighter passed over us inverted then dove straight down into the calderwood dam valley about a mile ahead of us. At the time, I thought it was cool. But, not really anymore. All this talk makes me want to really be careful about steering clear of those grey lines and hatched boxes!!!

[Piloto]

Was this a stealth C150 that the military could not detect?. After all these billions spent on stealth technology a $20K C150 can do the job?

José

[Raptor05121]

From the other forums I see, the C150 was headed NE to MYR at 2,500 when the collision happened. RIP.

[Deb]

To the military guys ... What rules govern flight along military training routes? Airspeed below 250 below 10k? Is radar used in conjunction with see an avoid ? Are the routes briefed in terms of what types of traffic you might see near civilian airports? Also ... You would think these things would be designed to avoid populated areas and civilian airports.

The thread on beechtalk.com has a discussion of airspeeds used by fighter jets when they are operating at low altitudes. Apparently they are not constrained to 250 kts below 10,000 ft.

http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=109630&view=unread#unread

[ryoder]

I don't want beech talks sloppy seconds.

[BKlott]

I believe it was November 16, 2000 when an Air Force pilot in a F-16 penetrated Tampa's Class B Airspace and then the Sarasota Class C Airspace without clearance and at a high rate of speed killing a pilot flying a Cessna 172 that was operated out of Crystal River Airport.

Now we have another F-16 taking out two guys in a Cessna 150.

I can't understand or accept that the Air Force pilots are exempt from the FARs and can do whatever they please in OUR airspace. After all, if you believe in what this country is supposed to stand for, that airspace does not belong to the Air Force or even the FAA. It belongs to the people of this country and we have as much right to fly our airplanes in our airspace as they do. They should have to follow the FARs just like the rest of us have to.

It's not like they were intercepting some MIGs or a Bear Bomber approaching our shoreline. Given the number of Soviet Bombers approaching our airspace in recent years, maybe the Air Force should spend a little more time on enemy recognition courses instead of taking out American Citizens flying Cessnas.

This type of accident should NEVER happen. Their is NO EXCUSE for it and we should not tolerate it. I will be contacting my Congressman and share these sentiments in no uncertain terms.

[ShermAv8tor]

Sounds like a good one for AOPA to get involved with.

[GeorgePerry]

AOPA and the Air Safety Institute are following developments closely.  As the NTSB works through the investigative process, If there are lessons learned that can prevent this sort of accident from happening again, we will do everything in our power to help pass that information along to the pilot community.

 

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/July/08/Tragedy-over-South-Carolina

[Browncbr1]

If GA should avoid training routes, then why was the training route designed nearly right over that airport? And are F16s equipped with AdsB? Why put the onus on GA and additionally assume the c150 didn't have AdsB equipment? It sounds like just another opportunity to push AdsB and try to somehow forget about see and avoid... All pilots.

[Piloto]

Aside from the stealthy C150 the military could use this one

All fabric, no radar reflection and much less expensive.

 

José

[Guest]

Or some of these:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Defender_(1988_film)

Clarence

[Bravoman]

Sounds like somebody needs good counsel. Maybe if the government gets hit a few times for a few hundred million, things will start to change. Sovereign immunity would not apply here...Just a thought.

[kmyfm20s]

Or some of these:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Defender_(1988_film)

Clarence

The star is a Candian flying a Comanche 400! That F16 wouldn't of stood a chance:)

[Tom]

To the military guys ... What rules govern flight along military training routes? Airspeed below 250 below 10k? Is radar used in conjunction with see an avoid ?

 

AOPA and the Air Safety Institute are following developments closely.

 

Hi George,

 

Thank you for your contributions here and at AOPA (and in the service). 

 

Could you comment on the airspeed restrictions (or lack thereof) for military flights at low altitudes outside of MOAs?  It would seem prudent that, short of an emergency, that the speed limits should be universal.  Even ambulances and fire trucks nowadays typically drive the speed limits, frequently slowing to a near stop at intersections.

 

This case otherwise reminds of the Hughes flight collision with its interesting aftermath:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_Airwest_Flight_706

[Danb]

George I believe Tom is right on , your our advocate and in these instances before any more pilots let alone Mooney drivers get hurt something needs to be done to curtail us being there ginnypigs if the area and pilots are so cavalier that we should stay away so be it, make the space unusable to us if need be and we can plan for it,