Looking for the perfect lightweight folding step ladder for the 201 wing to protect the flaps

[Targhee]

Hey fellow Mooniacs,

I fly regular Angel flight missions in my 201 and my biggest stress on every flight is trying to explain how to step on and off the wing without touching the flaps.  Most of the patients are elderly and/or disabled in some way.  They inevitably make contact with a foot or two even with the best intentions.  I’ve already dislodged the flap indicator once just by someone scraping the edge of the flap with their foot and the flap “snapping” back up.

I’m looking for the perfect lightweight folding step ladder with a U turn at the top and rubber feet that rest on the wing for a perfect fit.  This way they can step up with no risk of damaging the flaps.  Something like a mini ladder they use for getting on the roof of a house that clears the gutter so the ladder doesn’t lean against it and cause damage.  My only other option is to build something custom.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

[M20F]

I would recommend an Executive with its futuristic self retractable step.  

[201er]

These things are compact and portable.

I know some guys put flaps down to prevent people from stepping on them.

[Hank]

33 minutes ago, 201er said:

I know some guys put flaps down to prevent people from stepping on them.

This works.

Does your J have a step? My step and wingwalk are black, and the rest of the wing is white. I show people the step and the handle on the baggage door and tell them to "walk on the black, not on the white." Not having the flap present [because they are way down] is the only foolproof method that I know of.

The problem that I have with stools is that getting out of the plane, how do you get around them on the wing to put the stool in place????

[Targhee]

Yeah, I have a fixed step and the flap is white with the “no-step” label.  The safe area is black with the grip contour on the wing and fixed step.  It doesn’t matter though because I’m dealing with elderly and disabled people who can barely perform the “complex” process of grabbing the baggage door handle and  stepping up without nailing the flap regardless of my instructions.

I really just want something small and foldable that I can store in the baggage compartment and put in place prior to passenger ingress/egress.   I might need to use a step in combination with putting the flaps down to  reduce the chance of any contact with the flaps.  The stool above is nice, but I really need 2-3 small steps that come up level with the wing so they have no chance of stepping on or catching the flap with their foot.

[Pinecone]

I thought about this.

I think the step is good, but what would be perfect is something that had a flap that went down and bridged the flap.

But there is the issue of who picks it up and puts it away and who gets it out and sets it up.  Based on the how you have to load people in the plane.

[Targhee]

Yeah, since my passengers are almost always in the back, I’m able to setup the step before and after the flight.  Just need to find the right solution.  Here is a crude drawing of what I’m thinking would be perfect…  It would be light weight, fold and have rubber grip feet on the ends of the top curved bars that would lay perfectly flat and stable on the wing.  It would also clear the flaps without  having to put them down.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Targhee

[201er]

40 minutes ago, Targhee said:

 

If they need that to get onto the wing, you’ll need this to get them back out of the plane 

 

[Pinecone]

It not that they need it to get up on the wing, it is how to keep them from stepping on the flap.

I was thinking something like this.  The red is a platform that bridges from the step stool to the wing walk, over the flap.  It would be hinged at the green line.

 

[201er]

13 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

It not that they need it to get up on the wing, it is how to keep them from stepping on the flap.

I was thinking something like this.  The red is a platform that bridges from the step stool to the wing walk, over the flap.  It would be hinged at the green line.

 

What if you load backwards instead? Put the step against the leading edge with the door closed, have them get on the wing and past the door, from ground you open the door. The only reason we don’t normally do this is because the built in step is in the back. If you’re already carrying a ladder no reason you can’t load from the front.

[LANCECASPER]

No reason to re-invent the wheel. Small ladders seem very flimsy and may introduce more possibility for injury to someone already compromised (angel flight). Lowering the flaps and teaching them to grab the handle and go from the step to the wing walk is just part of the pre-flight passenger briefing. For angel flights it might make sense to take the co-pilot's seat out so that they can get in easier and sit in the back before the pilot gets in. This allows the pilot to help them up and allows the pilot to exit first and help them off.

[larryb]

To me it seems like the wrong airplane for the mission. A Cessna 182 would be more appropriate. There is risk to the passenger as well as the airplane.

[Pinecone]

3 hours ago, larryb said:

To me it seems like the wrong airplane for the mission. A Cessna 182 would be more appropriate. There is risk to the passenger as well as the airplane.

This may be the ultimate answer for me.

Fly puppies instead.

 

[201Mooniac]

47 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

This may be the ultimate answer for me.

Fly puppies instead.

 

This has been my solution, I've now had many great flights with as many as 7 dogs in the plane at once.  It is really a lot of fun and they don't have nearly the issues getting in and out.

[40_Year_Dream]

4 hours ago, larryb said:

To me it seems like the wrong airplane for the mission. A Cessna 182 would be more appropriate. There is risk to the passenger as well as the airplane.

Had the same thought - it's enough of a challenge for a normally flexible person to climb into a Mooney - not to mention someone with reduced strength and / or agility.

That said, though, your 'step stool with a flap' idea could be easily constructed - just make sure that all is strong and secure. A fall for the elderly can easily break bones, leading to other serious issues.

[Targhee]

Great feedback guys…. 

17 hours ago, Pinecone said:

It not that they need it to get up on the wing, it is how to keep them from stepping on the flap.

I was thinking something like this.  The red is a platform that bridges from the step stool to the wing walk, over the flap.  It would be hinged at the green line.

 

I really like this idea and I’m going to attempt to construct something similar this weekend.  My goal is just to protect the flaps.  So, getting the passenger up and over the flaps with no chance of catching a shoe tip on the trailing edge is all I need.  I’ll post pictures of the completed project.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Targhee

[carusoam]

+1 for putting flaps down…. This keeps from confusing the person as they try to go over it…

 

Be on the look out for  another thread around here for the same topic…

This has come up before…

+1 for sharing flights… even with the puppies!

Best regards,

-a-

[amillet]

19 hours ago, 201Mooniac said:

This has been my solution, I've now had many great flights with as many as 7 dogs in the plane at once.  It is really a lot of fun and they don't have nearly the issues getting in and out.

In crates or 7 loose dogs?

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, amillet said:

In crates or 7 loose dogs?

In crates, those 7 pups would have been much to much of a hand full to handle any other way.  When we landed, the FBO let us unload all 7 from the crates in one of their rooms and it was a blast watching those little guys run around and play.  I was sorry I couldn't keep them.

[jaylw314]

When I've flown Angel Flights, my wife accompanied us to assist boarding/disembarking.  We used the mini step @201er pictured above, with the flaps down.  The passenger would sit in the back and my wife in the co-pilot seat.  That way, during boarding and disembarking, we'd be in front of and behind the passenger to help, and my wife could deal with the step.

It meant we could only sign up for people travelling alone, not with extra family.  I suspect the people we got were a little more mobile, because they weren't travelling with a companion.

[Aerodon]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:18 AM, 201er said:

These things are compact and portable.

I know some guys put flaps down to prevent people from stepping on them.

Try it, you will be surprised by how a good 'first step' makes it easier for unstable people to plant their second step in the right place.  I use something similar in the hangar to make it quicker and easier to get in and out of the plane multiple times rather than the airplane step.

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, Aerodon said:

I use something similar in the hangar to make it quicker and easier to get in and out of the plane multiple times rather than the airplane step.

Me too, but I no longer have a step attached to the airplane.

[anthonydesmet]

To avoid inadvertently stepping on the flap I just leave the flaps down.  If it’s a height issue to get up in, that’s a different story…..then flying puppies is probably better….

[bradp]

I recently had a family member who’s not too mobile do a trip with me.  As long as the person can physically fit in the space between the leading edge and the door, this was the most comfortable entry and exit method for her. Sit on leading edge, pivot legs into plane and shift onto seat.  On the way down we had the front seat out and it was very roomy / easy.  On the way back the front seat remained in, and it was still easy.  Exit is sit on the wing and rotate, leg legs fall in front of the leading edge and slide out from door. 

[201er]

43 minutes ago, bradp said:

I recently had a family member who’s not too mobile do a trip with me.  As long as the person can physically fit in the space between the leading edge and the door, this was the most comfortable entry and exit method for her. Sit on leading edge, pivot legs into plane and shift onto seat.  On the way down we had the front seat out and it was very roomy / easy.  On the way back the front seat remained in, and it was still easy.  Exit is sit on the wing and rotate, leg legs fall in front of the leading edge and slide out from door. 

@Marauder can tell you all about getting them in and out. I’m pretty sure there’s a forklift involved.