Mooney Tail vs V Tail

[carusoam]

Beyond ordinary PP knowledge….  

https://www.copyright.gov/dmca/

-a-

[A64Pilot]

It was an interesting video, and available about a year ago, this guy fought it for quite awhile and if anything it was wrapping up faster. It didn’t recover well the first couple of times but did recover, contrast that to the old design airplanes that recover on their own, this was long ago before Go-pro’s, you can spin a 140 until you puke, and if you just turn loose of the control she will stop in less than a half of a turn, first minute is just level flight skip it

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by A64Pilot

[T. Peterson]

On 5/1/2022 at 10:35 AM, Will.iam said:

I agree that the fly by wire computers are the issue but i think it’s because they were  386 equivalent processors and the control code should have been optimized better or maybe that was just the limit. The A350 doesn’t have these issues but it has vastly faster processors. Would be great to upgrade the processors but the recertification must make it cost prohibitive as we get new A320 every month and the brand new ones are just as bad as the old ones. You would think airbus would put newer processors but i guess the old ones where good enough for them(or maybe the coding really is just that bad).  Analogy i have used to help explain the difference between boeing and airbus is that boing is an aircraft with a computer put on it and an airbus is a computer with an airplane put on it. Where i really miss the boeing is in gusty crosswinds. Airbus does fine in a crosswind but when it’s gusting crosswinds the airbus computer has a delay as it takes your control input and calculates how much aileron deflection to move. It’s not unsafe but i can fly a more precise approach in a boeing because I get instant control response from my control wheel input as it’s not going through a computer filtering my requests before moving the ailerons. 
Airbus Philosophy is pilots make mistakes computers do not. So when you disconnect the autopilot the system blares the master caution siren and there is no way to turn that off. I’ll be deaf by the time I’m 65 from that horn. Boeing if you double click the disconnect for the autopilot you cancel the horn and don’t have to hear it. I also don’t like airbus calling me a retard every time i go to land the airplane even if the thrust levers were at idle 15 seconds ago, the computer still has to say retard at least once. 
i will have to say i like having a tray table in front of me with no yoke in the way to eat my meals so that’s nice. 

Hey Will,

Love your post and you are right on! You know if you hold the emergency cancel button as you disconnect the AP, it will mute that obnoxious Cavalry charge. Of course it makes the check airmen go apoplectic, so don’t do it on a line check. It doesn’t hurt a thing and it does NOT disable the warning for the rest of the flight! 

[cliffy]

On 5/2/2022 at 5:26 AM, A64Pilot said:

It was an interesting video, and available about a year ago, this guy fought it for quite awhile and if anything it was wrapping up faster. It didn’t recover well the first couple of times but did recover, contrast that to the old design airplanes that recover on their own, this was long ago before Go-pro’s, you can spin a 140 until you puke, and if you just turn loose of the control she will stop in less than a half of a turn, first minute is just level flight skip it

 

My Commecial ride many decades ago with the retired head of the local GADO office was done in my C-140

I did two turns about points and then he asked me if I had ever spun the 140 (which I had) so we did 4 spins (2 each way) and he said I was done and head home!!   :-) :-)  Commercial ride done!

[Will.iam]

10 hours ago, T. Peterson said:

Hey Will,

Love your post and you are right on! You know if you hold the emergency cancel button as you disconnect the AP, it will mute that obnoxious Cavalry charge. Of course it makes the check airmen go apoplectic, so don’t do it on a line check. It doesn’t hurt a thing and it does NOT disable the warning for the rest of the flight! 

True but everytime you use that emergency cancel button it reports it back to the company, and if heaven forbid you have an incident, they could add that you are not following SOP. Line check airmen also go apoplectic as you say when you have location on showing your position on foreflight or Flight deck pro. Or retrieve your flightplan via acars. They just want us to suffer i think at times. 
 

also proves my point again that airbus really do not want you to fly. To cancel the horn you have to press the “emergency” cancel button. It’s definitely not an emergency to turn off the autopilot. 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Will.iam said:

. . . airbus really do not want you to fly. To cancel the horn you have to press the “emergency” cancel button. It’s definitely not an emergency to turn off the autopilot. 

Oh, but it is if you're a 400-hr pilot with no GA experience carrying 300 pax . . . .

[Will.iam]

6 hours ago, Hank said:

Oh, but it is if you're a 400-hr pilot with no GA experience carrying 300 pax . . . .

Well if it is may I suggest they offer them a differ line of profession.  The point is offer better pay and more capable people will show up.  It's a pay shortage not a pilot shortage.  I know of quite a few people that gave up the professional pilot job because they can make more money at a different profession. I just enjoy flying too much to go after only the money. 

[T. Peterson]

11 hours ago, Will.iam said:

True but everytime you use that emergency cancel button it reports it back to the company, and if heaven forbid you have an incident, they could add that you are not following SOP. Line check airmen also go apoplectic as you say when you have location on showing your position on foreflight or Flight deck pro. Or retrieve your flightplan via acars. They just want us to suffer i think at times. 
 

also proves my point again that airbus really do not want you to fly. To cancel the horn you have to press the “emergency” cancel button. It’s definitely not an emergency to turn off the autopilot. 

I guess there are benefits to being an old curmudgeon with only a year and a half to go anyway!! You young guys are wise not to antagonize anyone.

[67 m20F chump]

5 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Well if it is may I suggest they offer them a differ line of profession.  The point is offer better pay and more capable people will show up.  It's a pay shortage not a pilot shortage.  I know of quite a few people that gave up the professional pilot job because they can make more money at a different profession. I just enjoy flying too much to go after only the money. 

Ding,ding,ding!  I absolutely agree with you.  

[Andy95W]

10 minutes ago, 67 m20F chump said:

Ding,ding,ding!  I absolutely agree with you.  

Me too, absolutely!  The pay shortage is causing the pilot shortage.

[Mooney Dog]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

Me too, absolutely!  The pay shortage is causing the pilot shortage.

I disagree. The intro into the job is creating the shortage. While i would love more pay, having to basically go 3 years without pay, spending 70,000+ to get all the needed ratings and then either CFI or get lucky with some other job, or spend even more money and buy you way to 1500 TT. 

 

Once you get to the regionals, you're set. As i said, sure pay could be better, but you go from making ~$20 an hour where you only really get 6 to 7 flight hours and work for much longer than that to $50 an hour with a ~75 hour grantee per month. 

 

For most people when they want to make the switch, they're already in a career or have something that costs them money per month such as a house, car, kid, etc. Its not feasible for them to go spend a ton of money and 3 years to then make less money for 3 more years

[cliffy]

When I was learning to fly I could rent a Cessna 150 for $9/hr WET in blocks of 10 hours. 

Instructors were $10/hr

[Will.iam]

3 hours ago, Mooney Dog said:

I disagree. The intro into the job is creating the shortage. While i would love more pay, having to basically go 3 years without pay, spending 70,000+ to get all the needed ratings and then either CFI or get lucky with some other job, or spend even more money and buy you way to 1500 TT. 

 

Once you get to the regionals, you're set. As i said, sure pay could be better, but you go from making ~$20 an hour where you only really get 6 to 7 flight hours and work for much longer than that to $50 an hour with a ~75 hour grantee per month. 

 

For most people when they want to make the switch, they're already in a career or have something that costs them money per month such as a house, car, kid, etc. Its not feasible for them to go spend a ton of money and 3 years to then make less money for 3 more years

Go military route and you get paid and bypass the regionals as well. I know not everyone can go that route. There are caravan cargo sweat shops as I call them as you are only paid unemployment type wages I. E. $2000/month and they will abuse you to the FAR limits of 100 hours per month with two months off per year as they have to stay below the 1000/yr limit too but boy do you get turbine PIC time quickly at the expense of any type of life outside of flying but other professions are that way too like becoming a doctor and the internship you have to endure.  Bottom line these professions are better handled when you start early in life when you are young and don’t have a family commitment to tend to. They are not for people starting late in life as it takes a toll on spouses and children. 

[Fly Boomer]

7 hours ago, cliffy said:

When I was learning to fly I could rent a Cessna 150 for $9/hr WET in blocks of 10 hours. 

You beat me!  I usually come in below the other guys at $10/hour wet for a 10-hour block in a 150.  Loved that airplane.  But that was long ago and far, far away.

[A64Pilot]

18 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Well if it is may I suggest they offer them a differ line of profession.  The point is offer better pay and more capable people will show up.  It's a pay shortage not a pilot shortage.  I know of quite a few people that gave up the professional pilot job because they can make more money at a different profession. I just enjoy flying too much to go after only the money. 

Before I Retired a surprising number jumped ship to start flying Ag, hard work but better pay and you were home every night, just had to live in BF Arkansas or similar.

Military is tougher now with so much min commitment time you may as well stick it out to 20 and get paid for life, although benefits are disappearing. Next year my “free” medical will cost $4,000 a yr and vision and dental have been gone forever.

Seems it’s 10 years now for Army and that 10 I’m sure doesn’t start until graduation and you have over a year in by then, I’ve not read the article so I don’t know the specifics

https://juniorofficer.army.mil/army-aviation-alternatives-to-the-10-year-service-obligation/

Edited May 6, 2022 by A64Pilot

[Mooney Dog]

7 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Go military route and you get paid and bypass the regionals as well. I know not everyone can go that route. There are caravan cargo sweat shops as I call them as you are only paid unemployment type wages I. E. $2000/month and they will abuse you to the FAR limits of 100 hours per month with two months off per year as they have to stay below the 1000/yr limit too but boy do you get turbine PIC time quickly at the expense of any type of life outside of flying but other professions are that way too like becoming a doctor and the internship you have to endure.  Bottom line these professions are better handled when you start early in life when you are young and don’t have a family commitment to tend to. They are not for people starting late in life as it takes a toll on spouses and children. 

There are pipeline 172/182 jobs here that want 1500TT to fly a CESSNA 172. SIC jobs that used to be 500TT are now 1500TT with 250 ME and you dont even get to log the hours since its a single pilot aircraft. The only way you can plan on getting 1500 while getting paid these days is instructing. 

 

Sure the jobs exist, but good luck getting them. You really have to know someone these days for it. 

[PT20J]

9 hours ago, cliffy said:

When I was learning to fly I could rent a Cessna 150 for $9/hr WET in blocks of 10 hours. 

Instructors were $10/hr

Me too, but I was also earning $1040/month gross as a junior engineer.

[Fly Boomer]

51 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Me too, but I was also earning $1040/month gross as a junior engineer.

Wow, you were well paid!  $556/month for my first "real" job.  I did a lot of planning and calculations to determine that if I ever got to $1,000/month, the money would just start piling up, because I couldn't think of what I would spend it on.  I learned.

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Wow, you were well paid!  $556/month for my first "real" job.  I did a lot of planning and calculations to determine that if I ever got to $1,000/month, the money would just start piling up, because I couldn't think of what I would spend it on.  I learned.

Isn't it amazing how thoroughly, if you don't pay very close attention and watch carefully, how closely expenses ruse to match any salary increases . . . .

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

Isn't it amazing how thoroughly, if you don't pay very close attention and watch carefully, how closely expenses ruse to match any salary increases . . . .

These days, I suspect anyone over about 40 is familiar with the phenomenon.

[Hank]

45 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Wow, you were well paid!  $556/month for my first "real" job.  I did a lot of planning and calculations to determine that if I ever got to $1,000/month, the money would just start piling up, because I couldn't think of what I would spend it on.  I learned.

I ran similar exercises my last year of college, and couldn't figure out what to do with each paycheck that I was hoping to begin collecting. A year later, it was like water through my fingers . . . Guess I underestimated taxes, and probably allocated poorly for utilities (both the number I would need, and the ongoing charges for each). Note that more utilities are now required, and the family cell phone bill is much higher than the old wall phones used to cost.

But hey, I still managed to work a Mooney into my life, and so far I'm still flying it periodically. Everything must be good, right?

[Fly Boomer]

29 minutes ago, Hank said:

Everything must be good, right?

Everything is good on the green side.

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, Mooney Dog said:

There are pipeline 172/182 jobs here that want 1500TT to fly a CESSNA 172. SIC jobs that used to be 500TT are now 1500TT with 250 ME and you dont even get to log the hours since its a single pilot aircraft. The only way you can plan on getting 1500 while getting paid these days is instructing. 

 

Sure the jobs exist, but good luck getting them. You really have to know someone these days for it. 

I don’t think this is necessarily accurate.  We have a guy here who has recent experience:

@Raptor05121

[Raptor05121]

I've found its gone the other way around- With COVID, I was flying a 172 all the way to 1200 hours and got hired into a C208 gig simply because my best friend knew the Chief Pilot and walked my resume in- I beat out furloughed airline pilots with 10,000 hours.

Attrition right now is so high with pilot shortage I've got friends with 300 hours getting hired into 310s and Navajos with NO contracts. We've got captains leaving at an all time high and airlines are just now realizing it costs more to train a replacement than to give them a competitive salary in the first place. Now is the best time to be a commercial pilot. I've never seen more "NOW HIRING" posts

 

[MikeOH]

21 hours ago, cliffy said:

When I was learning to fly I could rent a Cessna 150 for $9/hr WET in blocks of 10 hours. 

Instructors were $10/hr

Got ya beat!  $10.50/hr wet for the 150, but my instructor was only $5/hr