Ppl in a Mooney?!?

[Jason walimaa]

Hello Mooney folk !

I want to buy a Mooney and train in it. I know it will take longer. Who has done it? Give me some good stories. I don’t want to buy a 172 to train in. I’d rather learn on the airplane I want to fly. I’m aware of complex and high performance endorsements. 
thanks. 

[mike_elliott]

Jason, yes it can be done, but it comes with a hefty price.

1) Insurance...check with @Parker_Woodruff or Tom Hague with Wings insurance on how much. Dont be shocked at 30K/year.

2) Expect it to take a bit longer to obtain your PPL. You will have a lot more to learn and master with a higher degree of precision, especially sink rate and energy management

3) Dont expect your run of the mill time building CFI to be able to bring you to PTS standards easily in a Mooney. Get ready to import someone who can and will..

Mike Elliott

Mooney Pros, Inc.

[Schllc]

Personally, I don’t think it’s a bad idea.

However, insurance companies may have a different perspective. I’d check to see what that will cost, if you can get someone to provide coverage.

[RobertGary1]

I’ve signed a few people off for their private in their Mooney. In the grand scheme it probably doesn’t take longer vs unlearning the looser habits the 172 allowed. Insurance is the issue and personally I leased a 172 to teach my son in only because it was cheaper than adding him to my insurance. 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Jason!

Great idea/dumb idea… depending on how you look at it… 

 

Start with why do you want to do this?
 

Training for the PPL is a really short term investment…

Buying the plane to train in… makes sense if you are going to fly the trainer indefinitely….

On the other hand…

Training to fly in a Mooney comes with the baggage of cognitive overload every time you take a lesson…

Maybe your brain is more resistant to cog overload… or your drive (time and cash available) to do this is stronger than most…

 

Let’s see if @Mufflerbearing has experience on this topic… (?)

 

For me…

I took time off from flying… Already had the Mooney… and needed to knock some rust off my skills….

My coach and I decided it was much better to do that with a rented mule…. C172…

 

The upside of learning in a different plane…

It is really hard to get the feeling of a machine, until you have experience in different machines…

You become a better Mooney pilot by having experience in other things…

 

Rent the trainer… available today.

Spend time finding the right Mooney for your forever plane…

You won’t want anyone else training in your forever plane… 
 

Either way… get started today.

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[Jason walimaa]

Awesome. Thanks guys. 
Your right. The Ppl is such a small piece of sky pie. 
Just rent the 172 for 50-60 hrs , have many mor cfi to choose from and buy the Mooney after. Maybe prices will even go down lol. Is there an hr preference on the insurance that makes the insurance more reasonable ? 50hrs/75/100?

last question  

Will I even fit in a Mooney? 
thanks 

6’6”
 

 

[carusoam]

10 minutes ago, Jason walimaa said:

Awesome. Thanks guys. 
Your right. The Ppl is such a small piece of sky pie. 
Just rent the 172 for 50-60 hrs , have many mor cfi to choose from and buy the Mooney after. Maybe prices will even go down lol. Is there an hr preference on the insurance that makes the insurance more reasonable ? 50hrs/75/100?

last question  

Will I even fit in a Mooney? 
thanks 

6’6”
 

 

Jason,

Your a quick learner… 
 

Yes you fit…

Fur references we can ask @Yetti his thoughts…  

Sitting height and inseam length often get discussed…. Few people stand upright in their Mooney…

 

Don’t wait to buy the Mooney…

Get started on the process now…. It takes time to define what you want, and find the right plane….

Buying a Mooney is often more like buying a house…. Hard to know what you want, until you have rented one already…. And there aren’t a lot available at any one time…

 

Best regards,

-a-

[clh]

My son got his ppl in our Mooney.....  But, we had him learn to land in a rental...  Mooneys are not that hard to land, but I think leaving botched landings in a rental there is more forgiveness and less repair costs..   If you ding up a rental, you leave it with the rental insurance  and go to the next rental on the line.   If you ding up your Mooney, it stays with you, and you will down until repairs are completed....  Additionally, there are very few CFI's that are that familiar with our planes compared to P or C.  (my son soloed in a cub)  

[BravoWhiskey]

I preferred using different planes in a flight school, 172, pa28, pa28r, sr20, sr22 etc… for both ppl and IFR ticket.  I was able to learn more about what features and performance were important to me before buying.  I had a 18 month waiting list for a hangar while looking for the right aircraft which allowed me plenty of time to kick some tires and get more time.  And yes, the insurance certainly drops with these levels of time and endorsements.

[dylanac]

1 hour ago, Jason walimaa said:

Awesome. Thanks guys. 
Your right. The Ppl is such a small piece of sky pie. 
Just rent the 172 for 50-60 hrs , have many mor cfi to choose from and buy the Mooney after. Maybe prices will even go down lol. Is there an hr preference on the insurance that makes the insurance more reasonable ? 50hrs/75/100?

last question  

Will I even fit in a Mooney? 
thanks 

6’6”
 

 

I would agree with renting, especially to save you expensive tank reseals. You could learn just fine, assuming you find an instructor that's proficient in a Mooney. But you will have hard landings and overtime those have a tendency to cause fuel leaks in the wet wing. Best beat up someone's 172 or piper then find your dream Mooney. Sounds like you have a good plan.

For reference, when I first bought my E model I had 200hrs TT, no complex, HP, or tailwheel. I insured for $50k and insurance was around $2500/yr. Now I'm 325hrs TT, 120 in type, and have it insured for $80k hull. Renewal just came back at $2300. Once I finish my instrument it will bring it down closer to $2000. Important to note, I'm only 23 so I'm sure that's what's hurting me now.

Where are you located? If you're worried about fitting in a Mooney you may be able to find members near you willing to let you sit in theirs or maybe even take you up. If you're near central Iowa I'd be happy to take you on a flight. At 6'6" you are going to be fairly tight. I'm 5'10 170lbs and my Mooney Pit fits me like a glove, in a good way. I do have buddies that are 6'4" that fit fine and say they're comfortable but they don't look it haha. With that said, you're likely to be just as cramped in most other piston singles. The only other way you're going to get much more room is if you step to a twin. If you want to move to twins at some point, I personally thing the Mooney is a great plane to get complex time in because it teaches you to fly planes with heavy flight controls and they need to be flown by the numbers.

[201er]

4 hours ago, Jason walimaa said:

I want to buy a Mooney and train in it...I’d rather learn on the airplane I want to fly. I’m aware of complex and high performance endorsements.

If you don't yet have flying experience, what makes you sure you want a Mooney? What are you trying to accomplish?

[Jason walimaa]

I have no experience. Only years of research. I would like to accomplish a decent cruise able to go on long trips. 1-2 passengers. Ifr rated plane. 
Your right to question. I don’t know why I want a Mooney. I may be better off in a Cherokee or piper. What do I know. I like how the Mooney’s fly. The Cessna seem sloppy, floaty, and slow. I like the small inputs and the precision of a Mooney. But then again what do I know. Harder to fly is not always a bad thing is it?

[haymak3r]

Doing it right now, though I transitioned from a 172 about 45 hours in. I have close to 20 hours now, and getting ready for my checkride.. I think getting the fundamentals down first in a trainer would do you pretty good. I know I wanted a mooney after being in one, lots of research, and for my mission. It fell in my lap, and I could*n't pass up the offer I got for mine. Good luck!

Edited February 28, 2022 by haymak3r

[Ron McBride]

My dad had a Comanche 250.  I learned a lot in the right seat, eventually flying the left seat.   My logbook is full of C150 time.   My instructor had to make me practice a lot before being allowed to solo etc.   I was 17 when I got my private.  I did not solo the Comanche until I was 18.  
 

Yes, you can learn in a Mooney, but I would learn in a rental. 
 

[Matt_AZ]

I did pretty much all of my PPL training in my Mooney. Took me about a year in my own plane with a lot of down time fixing & upgrading just to get my PPL. You are limited to the instructor’s time too so any airplane issues that come up, you are stuck. It took me longer than had I just rented or went through a flight school, cost more than a flight school.

You may be limited to which plane you buy. I had to find a plane with co-pilot brakes which at the time there was only one, the one I bought. I had to do a lot of upgrades & updates to get it where I wanted it. Going on 3 years now with my Mooney and I’m about to hit 250 hours in it but I lack the experience of flying several different airplanes which you would likely get going through a flight school. It’s doable for sure & now that I’m done I don’t regret it but just plan on everything taking longer than you think & it will be more challenging as an owner. DM me if you want more info. 

[jaylw314]

Less to do with the flying skills, I'd point out that the first couple years of ownership of an aircraft, especially a higher performance aircraft, is a pretty intense learning experience itself, and can occupy a large amount of time, effort and money.  Consider the stories of people who run into unknown squawks buying a new plane that ground them for a few months?  Will your PPL progress suffer as a result?

I'd maintain it's always best to learn PPL on someone else's plane, because if you want your training to be time-effective and cost-effective, it has to be pretty continuous and intensive, and you probably do not have the time, money or brain-power to be dealing with being a new plane owner simultaneously.

Same goes with IFR training, it has to be pretty intensive, but the difference is that if you buy a new plane, you'll be able to easily familiarize yourself with the plane by flying it a lot and working out the kinks before starting your training, so getting your forever plane before IFR training makes reasonable sense.  You don't really have that ability before starting your PPL training.

[MooneyMitch]

3 hours ago, Jason walimaa said:

Will I even fit in a Mooney? 
thanks 

6’6”

Yes!  But, go get in one and make your own call on that.

My experience in training, knowing I was learning to fly to own my own airplane........basic flight maneuvers, I learned in a trainer (C152).  Soon after soloing, I purchased a 4 place airplane, using that for cross country phase of training.  

My first airplane was not a complex aircraft, but I believe I could have transitioned just fine to the Mooney regardless.

As others have mentioned, insurance costs will be substantial.

Keep your eye on the prize, eventually finding your very own Mooney...... they are wonderful airplanes!!

Have fun!!

[kris_adams]

If I didn't have a plane, I'd start training in whatever the flight school has.  If I found my plane, I'd transition to it immediately given a qualified CFI and as long as I wasn't about to take my checkride.  I did all of my instrument training in my Mooney (realize this is different than the question) and I'm still so happy it worked out that way. 

Also, no idea if insurance effectively precludes this (private in the mooney) nowadays like a few others have mentioned.

-K

[cwaters]

5 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Jason, yes it can be done, but it comes with a hefty price.

1) Insurance...check with @Parker_Woodruff or Tom Hague with Wings insurance on how much. Dont be shocked at 30K/year.

 

30K/yr really???? I've never heard of insurance reaching that high even for 0 time. Am I under a rock or is this a typo with an extra "0" ?

[N201MKTurbo]

$30K seems a bit high. A friend bought a 310 (the one on the left) and he was going to use it to get his multi. When he first got an insurance quote, it came in at $2300, but that was with me as the pilot. When he said he wanted him as the pilot it went to $8800. He sold the plane.

[cwaters]

1 hour ago, Jason walimaa said:

I have no experience. Only years of research. I would like to accomplish a decent cruise able to go on long trips. 1-2 passengers. Ifr rated plane. 
Your right to question. I don’t know why I want a Mooney. I may be better off in a Cherokee or piper. What do I know. I like how the Mooney’s fly. The Cessna seem sloppy, floaty, and slow. I like the small inputs and the precision of a Mooney. But then again what do I know. Harder to fly is not always a bad thing is it?

ok if you have no experience where are you getting the info to conclude C/P are sloppy/floaty/slow, these may not be wrong assumptions but not 100%. a 172 is a much different plane than a M20 and about the only thing the Cherokees have in common with Mooney is they ae both low wing with a single door (most of them). 

- Mooney's are not harder to fly, who told you that is not truthful. they are faster, so you have to be ahead of the plane a bit more and they cleaner so they don't slow down as much. You say Cs are floaty, but nothing really floats as much as a Mooney 10kts too fast over the numbers (well maybe a 172 on floats)  

- What exactly is your mission (at least the 80% mission) ? are the 1-2 ppl flying with you family (spouse/kid) or friends? Friends typically line up to fly when you're training then are always busy after and you will fly mainly by yourself if banking on friends. What is the distance you are trying to cover? what is a long trip (100,500,1000nm) I feel the Mooney shines above all others at the 500nm trip 

- Insurance: might be prohibitive, I got my M20J last year and insurance was about 3100/yr with 100TT, 0complex, 0money; this year after getting my IR and 100in type insurance is 2500ish/yr 

- Side Note: I did my IFR in my plane, the school I went to (IFR6) required 50hr in my plane before they would start the training so I had to spend some time in the plane getting familiar with everything before I could start that journey. I absolutely loved getting the rating in my plane and plan to do the same with my commercial this year.

 

Recommendation: Rent at least until solo before putting those really rough first few landings on your plane. Typically the first time you do something you're not good at it so why beat your bird learning. Finding the right plane will take time and the market is insane right now, if you can afford to rent and learn at a school right now then I would go that route and constantly be looking for the Mooney. It took me about a year to find my bird (I had high standards and lower budget), I got lucky and was ready to go when my bird came to the market (about 24hrs from it hitting the market to being on contract and setting up the pre-buy). 

[kortopates]

It can be done, as I am doing it now with an older student. But I aways strongly recommend agaist it. Not only is insurance very high but its the longest and most expensive path possible to the ppl. Rumors of being hard on the plane are exagerated; at least a competent Mooney CFI isn't going to allow any hard landings - not on my watch! But it really adds to the amount of traiing and competence required before soloing because of the added complexity and demanding speed control.

[N201MKTurbo]

41 minutes ago, kortopates said:

It can be done, as I am doing it now with an older student. But I aways strongly recommend agaist it. Not only is insurance very high but its the longest and most expensive path possible to the ppl. Rumors of being hard on the plane are exagerated; at least a competent Mooney CFI isn't going to allow any hard landings - not on my watch! But it really adds to the amount of traiing and competence required before soloing because of the added complexity and demanding speed control.

But you will end the journey a better pilot. 

[StevenL757]

7 hours ago, Jason walimaa said:

Awesome. Thanks guys. 
Your right. The Ppl is such a small piece of sky pie. 
Just rent the 172 for 50-60 hrs , have many mor cfi to choose from and buy the Mooney after. Maybe prices will even go down lol. Is there an hr preference on the insurance that makes the insurance more reasonable ? 50hrs/75/100?

last question  

Will I even fit in a Mooney? 
thanks 

6’6”

Welcome.  Consider adding a few details to your profile...geographic location, etc. so a possible Mooney-specific CFI could be located for you easier.

For comparison, I have to move the seat forward about 10 inches to get to the rudder pedals, and I'm 6'4".  You'll fit fine.

Steve

[N201MKTurbo]

It freaks me out to fly a fixed gear airplane. I turn downwind and I freak out because there is no gear knob.