Cabin Width Comparisons

[PT20J]

Cleaning out old stuff and ran across this.

Mooney Driver26-Jan-14 20:5701
Ok, this is a split off from the engine thread, where some folks started to compare cabin widths. So I went and researched them to add another sheet to my Excel Database  So here’s what I found in a quick research:

The range of cabin sizes in the SE piston market is between 38 and 50 inches. That is a full 12 inches / 30 cm difference between the smallest and the widest cabin. What I found very interesting is that some cabins which are said to be spacy are in fact narrower than others which are said to be tiny. But here are the most popular types:

The Cessna 150 is the tightest with 38 inches/96 cm.

The Cessna 172 and 152 according to Cessna’s website is 40 inches / 102 cm wide.

The Grumman AA5 is 41 inches / 104 cm wide.

The Cessna 182, PA28 and Bonanzas have 42 inch/107 cm cabin widths

The Cessna 206/210 has 43 inches/109 cm

The Mooney cabin is 43.5 inches/110 cm wide.

Next in the close ball park is the Piper Saratoga/Seneca cabin with 48.25 inches and the Corvalis with 48 inches/122 cm.

Next are the Malibu with 49.6 inches / 126 cm followed closely by the Cirrus SR20/22 with 49 inches/125 cm.

The widest single engine cabin are found: In the TB9/10/20/21. According to specs the cabin is 50.3 inches / 128 cm wide.

I must say I was fairly surprised by some of these figures. Especcially Cessna’s singles had me fooled, I thought them to be wider than both the PA28 and certainly the Mooney. Also on the top end, the Socata series beats all the rest, however within very small margins.

So basically, we have two “cathegories” so to speak, the “wide bodies” between 50 and 48 inches which include the TB series, Cirrus, Corvalis and the 6 seated Malibus and Saratoga. They all are within 2 inches / 5 cm.

The narrow bodies are lead by Mooney, followed by the large Cessnas (210/206) and then by the Bonanza, Cessna 182 and Piper Cherokee/Arrow with 43.5 to 42 inches, again with a very small margin of 4 cm.

Tail end Charlies are the AA5, C172/152 and finally the C150 which are 41 and 38 inches wide.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 26 Jan 21:03

[cliffy]

The other "wide body" you missed is the Aero Commander 114 coming in at 47 inches.

[philiplane]

club seat comparison between Cessna, Piper, and Beech

club seat comp.pdf

Edited February 20, 2022 by philiplane

[1980Mooney]

33 minutes ago, cliffy said:

The other "wide body" you missed is the Aero Commander 114 coming in at 47 inches.

We need to add a few more wide bodies

• Pipistrel Panthera  47 inches
• Diamond DA50RG 53 inches

And narrow

Narrow

• Piper Comanche 45 inches
• Diamond DA40 44 inches

I doubt anyone is going to bring a clean sheet new design to market that is less than 47 inches cabin width - preferably wider.

Edited February 20, 2022 by 1980Mooney

[PT20J]

Yeah, pilots seem to be getting wider 

[201er]

Yeah but Mike Mojo said the Mooney cabin is really crammed and tall guys would never fit so you must be wrong 

[cliffy]

What about the fat ladies?

[dlthig]

Or 2?

https://www.saveur.com/two-fat-ladies-best-food-tv-show/

[A64Pilot]

Having had both, I’m not buying my 201 is wider than the C-210, not knocking the Mooney, but the 210 is a much larger airplane. In the Mooney we leave her seat full aft to gain room, never thought to do that in the 210.

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by A64Pilot

[mike_elliott]

the 210 is a much larger airplane, but the Mooney is .5" wider. Those pesky tape measures are hard to argue with.

[A64Pilot]

Where the width is, is more relevant than widest point, shoulder room is where most width is needed, 210 has way more shoulder room.

Sit in a 210 and any logical person will agree it’s way roomier than a Mooney, again not knocking a Mooney, different mission than a 210

I never knew a Cirrus was so wide either, but then I’ve not flown one.

[PT20J]

Might be 43" at station 45 or so.

[Thedude]

This is an old thread, but posting for anyone that stumbles upon it, from what I've found the non-j vintage models before 75 had a cabin width of 41" not 43.5"

[0TreeLemur]

30 minutes ago, Thedude said:

This is an old thread, but posting for anyone that stumbles upon it, from what I've found the non-j vintage models before 75 had a cabin width of 41" not 43.5"

Hmmm.   The dimensions of the 83J seem exactly the same as our '67C did.   Same distance between the seats, same distance between the cabin liner and the seats, and I assume same seat width.   I'm skeptical of what you wrote. 

[Pinecone]

Having flown with the same person in the right seat in my Mooney and a C-182, the 182 has more shoulder room.  In my Mooney, unless the right seat is moved back a few inches, our shoulders touch.  And they don't in the 182.

I have some time in both AA5B and 112A, and both felt more roomy than my Mooney, but it has been a few years.

[GeeBee]

My brother used to be an industrial designer for the world's largest office furniture company. The average American is getting larger (especially in width) at a rate faster than anywhere else in the world with the exception of Australia which is about the same. The Chinese are getting larger. Interestingly the Japanese are getting smaller but this is due to "tribal integration" effects on the average. These are all pre-pandemic which may have had some effect. 

[cbarry]

I’m fairly convinced any feeling of being wider from a cabin that on paper is the same if not more narrow than our Mooney cabin is actually is in perception only due to the shape of the cabin.  Flatter and higher sidewalls will definitely cause a feeling of greater overall width whereas a more aerodynamic transition from sidewalls to the ceiling (more curved) may cause a person to lean in toward the center of the cabin thus reducing shoulder-to-shoulder spacing.  I believe Rockwell Commander offered an illustration back in the day that compared cabins/seating positions to show one of their strengths.  Maybe that comparison was ahead of its time…due to the smaller girthed folks then as compared to of today.  I’ll take speed and efficiency over perceived space every time.

[Schllc]

The cabin of the Mooney is probably smaller in cross section area than almost all of the planes listed here. It does have room where it is really needed which is at the shoulder, but it is definitely smaller as a function of its design. The seating position alone makes it probably 8” (maybe more?) shorter than a Cessna. 
The long sitting or quasi supine, whatever the position is called in a Mooney, is by far the most comfortable position for most of us here, especially when it is a long trip. if it wasn’t we probably would not love them so much.  
I took my first long trip alone in my Aerostar before the new year, and 2 hours into it, I was really missing my legs out in front and the reclined position. There is no debate for me, the Mooney cabin is perfectly designed for comfort.  Even two larger people merely need to offset the seats to find all the room one could need.   
if there was one deficiency in the Mooney I could choose to fix it would be the noise. 

 

BTW

People aren’t getting “larger”, they are getting fatter. 
Visit any mall, airport or theme park, or any public place really, it is on display. 
I read something a long time ago that stuck with me, it is said…  
“When you find that your pants are suddenly too small, this is not a sign to buy new pants”

[GeeBee]

It is true that girth is increasing faster than height but height is a increasing as well. In 1870 for instance, the average white male was 5'5". You can see this in the size of sleeping hammocks and bunks in sailing ships of the period. The British Navy increased the size of sleeping hammocks 5 times since the 18th century.

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

3 hours ago, GeeBee said:

My brother used to be an industrial designer for the world's largest office furniture company. The average American is getting larger (especially in width) at a rate faster than anywhere else in the world with the exception of Australia which is about the same. The Chinese are getting larger. Interestingly the Japanese are getting smaller but this is due to "tribal integration" effects on the average. These are all pre-pandemic which may have had some effect. 

You should go to India.  I was shocked by how fat the people were in the middle-class areas of town.

[Fly Boomer]

5 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I have some time in both AA5B and 112A, and both felt more roomy than my Mooney, but it has been a few years

These days, it seems that everything I sit in used to be more roomy.

[hammdo]

The old 10 lbs of  ____ in a 5 lbs bag ;o) That’s how I feel some days…

-Don

[EricJ]

A buddy with a Cherokee 180 kept claiming that his airplane had more space than mine, so we measured both.    They're remarkably similar in almost every major dimension (widths and length, cargo area, etc.).   I think the numbers shown above are accurate, that Mooneys really aren't any narrower than the typical GA airplane.    They seem cramped to many people because the cabin is shorter vertically than many and it's a little trickier to get in and out.   I think it's the vertical dimension difference that makes people feel cramped, but it's also what keeps the frontal area down for less drag.

I've been flying a 182 some lately, and Cessnas always feel like they have shoulder room because of the windows, especially if they're open.      In the 182 my head is in the wing root and my shoulder is in the window.   In my airplane there's window next to my head and a window sill next to my shoulder.   If I think of it sometime I'll run a tape measure between the window sills in the 182.

 

[1980Mooney]

Bottom line reality......Most GA planes are flying heavier than anyone wants to admit.

[cliffy]

Years ago an idea was proffered on the "McDonald's Diet" and one looked at the population as a whole before the proliferation 

of Micky Ds (@ 1964 or so) and now.

All one has to do is compare high school grad pictures to see the affect of the high calorie/low food value diet brought about by the

BIG Mac!  The timing is amazing

A doctor in Seattle 25 years ago did a study around his area by zip code delineating the body mass of subject s by zip code

and then over laying the preponderance of McDonalds in each zip code and the higher the Micky Ds count the larger the 

body mass by zip code.