You're Cleared Through Bravo Airspace

[Mooney217RN]

A couple of months back, I posted here about my landing on 28L at SFO.  A few weeks later, I went to do it again.  The airport has since changed their policy, and is no longer permitting GA aircraft from using the airfield unless you do a full stop landing, taxi to the FBO (Signature), and pay the fees, which will total hundreds of dollars.  I took a low pass over 28R in the Ovation.  I could tell from the the tower controller's voice that he really didn't want to deny my request for the option on 28R, but he was nice enough to offer a low pass over the airport.

Approach control in the SF terminal airspace is much friendlier.  Last week, without even asking for it, I was cleared through the Class Bravo on the descent into KSQL at 4,000' as I approached the shoreline near HWD.  I had to get down at that point, but it was nice to have the option to remain higher.

On my outbound flight from SQL, about 30 minutes after touching down, I called approach mid-span on the bridge requesting clearance through Bravo.  Low & behold, I was cleared to climb right up through the Class Bravo airspace.

I am guessing airline traffic into SFO is still pretty thin based on those experiences.  But don't expect to land your Mooney at SFO, they'll deny your request unless you're willing to dig deep and pay for it.

[carusoam]

@201er has shown his landings at both JFK and Newark...

Given another month of Corona, he may collect the trifecta award for getting all three NYC area airports... Fiorello LaGuardia...

Review his methodology, there may be a better way for you that might work...

PP thoughts only regarding high speed negotiations.... not a CFI.

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

Oh those magical words! I've heard them addressed to me in Cincinnati and Charlotte on rare visits and passing-throughs, but have yet to hear them the several times each year that I take trips past dear old Atlanta . . . . It's changed so much since Mom and Dad grew up there.

[gsxrpilot]

When @Denver98 and I wanted to land at KDEN, we were told the same thing. You'll have to taxi to Signature's ramp, pay fees, etc. So we agreed. But once handed off to the tower, (Scott's wife is a tower controller at KDEN), we were cleared to land, (they asked, "you don't really want to go to Signature, do you?") and then given progressive taxi instructions all the way across the field to the departure runway and cleared for take off.

I've been prepared for the possibility of a bill in the mail for the fees. But it's been a few months and nothing yet.

[201er]

NYC 3 airports don’t have a Signature!!! 

[Davidv]

The first time I tried to do it in Miami they warned me that I would receive a bill in the mail for the landing fee if I did a low pass.  Fortunately, unlike the Republic of California, the fee would have been about $20.

The second time I asked for it they granted it with no problem and no bill in the mail either...

[MooneyMitch]

13 minutes ago, Davidv said:

The first time I tried to do it in Miami they warned me that I would receive a bill in the mail for the landing fee if I did a low pass.  Fortunately, unlike the Republic of California, the fee would have been about $20.

The second time I asked for it they granted it with no problem and no bill in the mail either...

Hey, watch it! .......... we have expenses to take care of out here in the West ..

[Davidv]

4 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said:

Hey, watch it! .......... we have expenses to take care of out here in the West ..

Haha, yes, I'll "hold short" of making any further comments to avoid turning this into a political thread   

[211º]

I’ve heard that Cincinnati welcomes ops in their airspace as (I think/heard) that the pay for controllers in Bravo is better then Charlie. And the controllers want to get as many ops as they can to keep from reverting to a Class C (a concern ever since Delta Airlines left).

Now I think that DHL and Amazon Prime are helping the numbers.

[MooneyMitch]

4 minutes ago, Davidv said:

Haha, yes, I'll "hold short" of making any further comments to avoid turning this into a political thread   

We do have great weather here in Dismal Beach !!  

[Davidv]

Just now, MooneyMitch said:

We do have great weather here in Dismal Beach !!  

I actually lived out in the LA area for a year and yes, the weather is tough to turn down!  It *almost* makes you forget about all those other expenses  

[MooneyMitch]

14 minutes ago, Davidv said:

I actually lived out in the LA area for a year and yes, the weather is tough to turn down!  It *almost* makes you forget about all those other expenses  

Weather....... that’s exactly why I’m still here.   We’re up to coast from La La Land, about 50 miles northwest of Santa Barbara.  I’m 1nm from the beautiful Pacific.   I absolutely love it.

I’m enjoying reading the stories and seeing photos of folks swooping into giant Bravo airports and zipping through the same airspace!  Unfortunately the reason for all this is quite sad.

[N9201A]

Hey, watch it! .......... we have expenses to take care of out here in the West ..

What, you think all that sunshine is FREE?

[MooneyMitch]

Just now, N9201A said:

What, you think all that sunshine is FREE?

Nope...... not by any means.   It is the price I pay for being here.  

[Skates97]

38 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said:

Nope...... not by any means.   It is the price I pay for being here.  

I think I've shared this story before. A couple years ago when I was at the AME for my 3rd Class we were discussing different things. The talk turned to how expensive it is to not only live in Southern California but to do business here. He said that he was talking to his wife about moving someplace with lower taxes, less regulation, etc... Her response to moving was "The hell we are, you make enough money, just pay the taxes."

[MooneyMitch]

40 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I think I've shared this story before. A couple years ago when I was at the AME for my 3rd Class we were discussing different things. The talk turned to how expensive it is to not only live in Southern California but to do business here. He said that he was talking to his wife about moving someplace with lower taxes, less regulation, etc... Her response to moving was "The hell we are, you make enough money, just pay the taxes."

Yep, it’s the weather !  

[Immelman]

Airline traffic is coming back slowly, with a bit of a plateau now due to the latest covid news, total domestic passenger counts are now at 25-28% of pre-covid for this time of year. Many airliners have been brought out of storage and are flying again, but many are still parked. Many still flying with empty space but its not as dismal as April.

 

[Danb]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

I think I've shared this story before. A couple years ago when I was at the AME for my 3rd Class we were discussing different things. The talk turned to how expensive it is to not only live in Southern California but to do business here. He said that he was talking to his wife about moving someplace with lower taxes, less regulation, etc... Her response to moving was "The hell we are, you make enough money, just pay the taxes."

That’s quite sad..

[MooneyMitch]

52 minutes ago, Danb said:

That’s quite sad..

Sad cause his wifeypoo said no?  Sad cause he’s paying taxes? Sad cause they live in year round flying weather?

Or all the above? 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Immelman said:

Airline traffic is coming back slowly, with a bit of a plateau now due to the latest covid news, total domestic passenger counts are now at 25-28% of pre-covid for this time of year. Many airliners have been brought out of storage and are flying again, but many are still parked. Many still flying with empty space but its not as dismal as April.

Don't forget, much of the airlines' income is from both air freight and carrying the mail. UPS and FedEx both have some planes, but the Post Office does not. It's not enough to sustain last year's activity level with no passengers, but it's often more income than we provide. 

[RobertGary1]

I feel a lot better flying around there with the ADs-b requirement now. I flew around Alcatraz the other day and there were a lot of planes. The controller was pretty busy and it’s nice to see everyone on the fish finder. 
 

-Robert  

[PT20J]

I haven't landed at SFO for years, but I don't think Signature is the problem. According to AOPA, Signature charges a $39 ramp fee that they will waive if you buy fuel (which is $8.06/gal). The airport assesses a $232 landing fee - Signature just collects if for them. Last Signature FBO I used was at KSAF last year and they waived ramp fees if I bought fuel which I needed and the self serv fuel was a reasonable price and the personnel were friendly and helpful.

Skip

[Danb]

4 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

Sad cause his wifeypoo said no?  Sad cause he’s paying taxes? Sad cause they live in year round flying weather?

Or all the above? 

Since I’m a tax guy. Taxes.

[GeeBee]

23 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

We do have great weather here in Dismal Beach !!  

I've always said if I return to CA (unlikely) I would live on the Central Coast. Great area you live in.

 

[jaylw314]

On 7/16/2020 at 5:34 PM, Mooney217RN said:

A couple of months back, I posted here about my landing on 28L at SFO.  A few weeks later, I went to do it again.  The airport has since changed their policy, and is no longer permitting GA aircraft from using the airfield unless you do a full stop landing, taxi to the FBO (Signature), and pay the fees, which will total hundreds of dollars.  I took a low pass over 28R in the Ovation.  I could tell from the the tower controller's voice that he really didn't want to deny my request for the option on 28R, but he was nice enough to offer a low pass over the airport.

Approach control in the SF terminal airspace is much friendlier.  Last week, without even asking for it, I was cleared through the Class Bravo on the descent into KSQL at 4,000' as I approached the shoreline near HWD.  I had to get down at that point, but it was nice to have the option to remain higher.

On my outbound flight from SQL, about 30 minutes after touching down, I called approach mid-span on the bridge requesting clearance through Bravo.  Low & behold, I was cleared to climb right up through the Class Bravo airspace.

I am guessing airline traffic into SFO is still pretty thin based on those experiences.  But don't expect to land your Mooney at SFO, they'll deny your request unless you're willing to dig deep and pay for it.

Yes, when there was normal traffic last year when I flew to KPAO southbound from Oregon, I got the clockwise grand tour of San Francisco Bay.  The second time I asked the Oakland controller what options I had, and he said the only option was to fly VFR under the Bravo from Point Reyes out over the ocean, they just weren't willing to give me a clearance through the Bravo.  TECHNICALLY, I was within gliding distance of the shore, but I couldn't see the shore for the marine layer, so a little nerve-wracking...