Ditching at Night....are you prepared for it?

[fantom]

Lots of lessons can be taken away from this video. In the cold waters off CA, these folks wouldn't have been so lucky.

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstories/ditchinginthedark/ditchinginthedark.cfm

[aviatoreb]

Quote: fantom

Lots of lessons can be taken away from this video. In the cold waters off CA, these folks wouldn't have been so lucky.

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstories/ditchinginthedark/ditchinginthedark.cfm

[Comatose]

I flew over lake Michigan twice and over lake Erie twice last week. If I can get high enough to glide to shore (much easier in our planes than, say, a cherokee 140) I'm pretty comfortable with it. I crossed at the narrowest convenient points, and had life preservers onboard. Also, lots and lots of fuel. I'm not sure I'd do the same crossings at night. Calculated risks!

[David Mazer]

Despite every preparation, I doubt any of us are really ready to ditch at night.  Some are just less so than others.  Even on short water crossings (FL coast to Bahama coast about 50 nm) I wear a PFD and make my passengers do the same, get high enough to glide, carry a PLB, and do it during the day.  SEL seems to say it all.  Maybe I'm just overly cautious.

[DaV8or]

I won't put myself in that situation. If I'm flying over large bodies of water at night, I need two engines. In a Mooney, I stay over land or I wait until day at least.

[Piloto]

Quote: DaV8or

I won't put myself in that situation. If I'm flying over large bodies of water at night, I need two engines. In a Mooney, I stay over land or I wait until day at least.

[M20F]

Quote: Piloto

 

[BorealOne]

Night, water and landing...those words together in the same sentence scare the #!!# out of me. I fly a Lake amphib in addition to a Mooney. The Lake community lost both a pilot and a plane last week to a botched landing in twilight conditions near La Tuque, Quebec. The consensus among float-rated pilots is that the odds against a successful night landing even with power and good glassy-water techique are stacked against - and without power, they become astronomical. Those folks in Fla were lucky beyond measure.

[DaV8or]

Quote: Piloto

Depends what type of twin and how much load you have on it. Keep in mind that the chances of an engine failure on a piston twin are twice (or higher) than on a single.

[triple8s]

I saw a show called " I Shouldnt Be Alive" where a pilot (happened to be flying a Mooney) was enroute from southwest USA to somewhere on the coast of Mexico. He was flying over the Gulf of California and ran into a storm then lost an engine, he then had to ditch in the sea near dusk. After watching this recount I thought "what should I do to prepare"for something like this? Here are my thoughts: Floatation for each soul, 406 ELT. By the way did anyone else see the episode? It supposedly happened in the late 1990's.

[PTK]

The twin has twice the probability of an engine failure than the Mooney. Also twins introduce another Pandora's box full of issues on one engine. On one engine you have, at best, marginal performance losing about 90% of thrust. Also when DA becomes a consideration your ceiling is no more than about 5000 feet DA.

Ever wonder why light business airplanes such as the TBM-700 and PC-12 have single engines?

 

[PTK]

The twin has twice the probability of an engine failure than the Mooney. Also twins introduce another Pandora's box full of issues on one engine. On one engine you have, at best, marginal performance losing about 90% of thrust. Also when DA becomes a consideration your ceiling is no more than about 5000 feet DA.

Ever wonder why light business airplanes such as the TBM-700 and PC-12 have single engines?

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: allsmiles

The twin has twice the probability of an engine failure than the Mooney. Also twins introduce another Pandora's box full of issues on one engine. On one engine you have, at best, marginal performance losing about 90% of thrust. Also when DA becomes a consideration your ceiling is no more than about 5000 feet DA.

Ever wonder why light business airplanes such as the TBM-700 and PC-12 have single engines?

[PTK]

How much excess thrust do you lose, say on a twinn Comanche on one engine Parker?

[alex]

Quote: allsmiles

 

Ever wonder why light business airplanes such as the TBM-700 and PC-12 have single engines?

 

[gsengle]

Quote: borealone

Night, water and landing...those words together in the same sentence scare the #!!# out of me. I fly a Lake amphib in addition to a Mooney. The Lake community lost both a pilot and a plane last week to a botched landing in twilight conditions near La Tuque, Quebec. The consensus among float-rated pilots is that the odds against a successful night landing even with power and good glassy-water techique are stacked against - and without power, they become astronomical. Those folks in Fla were lucky beyond measure.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: allsmiles

How much excess thrust do you lose, say on a twinn Comanche on one engine Parker?

[PTK]

Actually, when you lose an engine on a twin you typically will lose ~90% of excess thrust. This means a climb rate of say 1200 fpm will be reduced to maybe 200 fpm if you are lucky.  And this is with a perfectly configured airplane.

But the discussion was Mooney vs a twin.  A twin doesn't necessarily translate into any added safety benefit.  Again I point out the fact that serious business machines are indeed singles! 

The bottom line is we have to adhere to our personal minimums and limitations. Personally, you will not find me over the Gulf or the ocean at night unless ofcourse, I'm flying my other Mooney the TBM!  As we say in the profession:

"prevention is ALWAYS the best solution!"   

[alex]

Just cause Andrew Boyd (avweb contributor) says so and you read it doesn't take away the fact that it is his opinion and you are  simply regurgitating it almost vervatim in your post.

http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/184438-1.html

Any original thoughts?

[Shadrach]

Quote: allsmiles

Actually, when you lose an engine on a twin you typically will lose ~90% of excess thrust. This means a climb rate of say 1200 fpm will be reduced to maybe 200 fpm if you are lucky.  And this is with a perfectly configured airplane.

But the discussion was Mooney vs a twin.  A twin doesn't necessarily translate into any added safety benefit.  Again I point out the fact that serious business machines are indeed singles! 

The bottom line is we have to adhere to our personal minimums and limitations. Personally, you will not find me over the Gulf or the ocean at night unless ofcourse, I'm flying my other Mooney the TBM!  As we say in the profession:

"prevention is ALWAYS the best solution!"   

[alex]

He read it therefore he OWNS it!

[Skyatty]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

2. The TBM-700 and PC-12 don't necessarily have the same roles at a B200 or 350.

3. SE Service Ceiling is a function of horsepower, weight, and the engine's ability to produce power (turbo or NA).

[PTK]

Quote: alex

He read it therefore he OWNS it!

[alex]

Quote: allsmiles

No Alex, you got it all wrong I'm afraid! 

I read so I can learn. You see, I'm not like you who knows it all. I'm constantly reading and learning.  In fact the more I learn the more I find out how much I don'rt know!

I'm so slow!  Do I get extra credit for reading a lot and trying? E for effort!?

[David Mazer]

Please stop.