Spring Cleaning my - Bravo

[Mark89114]

Slightly off topic a bit....so not a complete thread hijack.  Any experience with the ceramic coatings that seem to be the rage?  My mooney's paint is in bad shape so wouldn't benefit, but I was considering it for my car till I was told about $750 to $1500 for a professional application.  Seems like a lot of money.  Yes I could google it but you end up getting a 1000 cleverly written articles which are just advertisements.

 

[alextstone]

On 4/27/2019 at 10:47 PM, StevenL757 said:

According to CAV Aerospace, the best combination of things to clean your TKS panels is the fluid itself.  Use a blue ScotchBrite pad.  Don’t use the green ones...they’re too abrasive.

Run the system, and use the fluid coming from the panels as your cleaning solution.  It also allows you to see what panels are bleeding fluid and any that aren’t.  Work the pad along the chord line.  You’re guaranteed good results.

For the other parts of the aircraft...I’ve found the AeroCosmetics Products work very well.  All biodegradable and they have a solution for just about all parts of the aircraft...internally and externally. 

So I have a question:   Let's say you discover that there is an area that is not expressing fluid.  What can or should be done about that?

[exM20K]

1 hour ago, alextstone said:

So I have a question:   Let's say you discover that there is an area that is not expressing fluid.  What can or should be done about that?

Start with having a service center purge the panels. They should also check the proportioning valves, which could be clogged or disconnected. for a particular panel.

  Pray that will fix it, because replacement panels are brutally expensive.

Does fluid leak out of the bottom of the wing, and do you have trouble getting the low pressure warning to extinguish?  That *may* suggest a disconnected fitting.

-de

Edited May 1, 2019 by exM20K

[alextstone]

2 hours ago, exM20K said:

Start with having a service center purge the panels. They should also check the proportioning valves, which could be clogged or disconnected. for a particular panel.

  Pray that will fix it, because replacement panels are brutally expensive.

Does fluid leak out of the bottom of the wing, and do you have trouble getting the low pressure warning to extinguish?  That *may* suggest a disconnected fitting.

-de

I've had lots of difficulty getting my TKS system back to proper working order.  I have had one pump overhauled, one proportioning valve replaced, the entire system purged, the filter replaced.  Now, the system primes quickly and indicates normal pressure but the panel on the root of the right wing does not flow at a rate sufficient to de ice the area.  Some flow does occur however.  I have not isolated the proportioning valve to that panel yet to check it but that is next.  I was asking more about what to do if you notice that some of a panel is expressing fluid but part of the same panel is not.  Is there any procedure to beyond purging to unclog the pores?

[StevenL757]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:24 AM, gsxrpilot said:

+1 for the WashWax All products. I use the blue everywhere and the red or purple for the belly and other greasy bits. It doesn't require any water or clean up after. 

Yep.  Exactly the same here.  Great line of products. 

[carusoam]

Alex,

The system is pretty simple... so if fluid enters a TKS panel, and comes out in some areas, and it doesn’t come through all of the areas... that is an indication that something may be blocking the flow... or something is allowing the flow to go elsewhere...

1) if it is blocked locally, at the individual panel...

That something has made its way through the pumps and filters... so, it is probably a situation of dried TKS fluid?

Is there a recommended fluid used for cleaning up dried TKS fluid?

 

2) Most likely... not enough fluid is being delivered to the panel... it just runs out the first holes it comes to...  this would be a challenge created by the flow valves... balancing the overall system seems to make some sense...  especially if balancing the system means stopping a leak that is allowing flow away from where it belongs... 

 

It is such a simple system, See if you can find your system drawing for where all the parts are located... expect something simple to be the actual problem...

Find a way to do a baby food jar test... like checking the flow balance of fuel coming out of a fuel injector... only using TKS and plastic bags?  

PP thoughts only, lots of manual reading, no first hand experience on this one...

Best regards,

-a-

[Davidv]

Quick question on the blue wax all -

I bought a few bottles and use a garden like spray bottle (the kind that you pump to create pressure inside) to apply it and then wipe with the blue shop towels.  However, I'm finding that it doesn't like to take off dirt or grease like my old dry wash.  Is there any trick that I'm missing or do you only use it as a top coat "protector" once you've gotten grease/other dirt off the skin with something else.  I'm not trying to use it on the belly, just the rest of the plane.

[MrRodgers]

Quick question on the blue wax all -
I bought a few bottles and use a garden like spray bottle (the kind that you pump to create pressure inside) to apply it and then wipe with the blue shop towels.  However, I'm finding that it doesn't like to take off dirt or grease like my old dry wash.  Is there any trick that I'm missing or do you only use it as a top coat "protector" once you've gotten grease/other dirt off the skin with something else.  I'm not trying to use it on the belly, just the rest of the plane.

You should only use CLEAN micro fiber towels with the product. One towel for the wet application and another for the drying/buffing.


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[Davidv]

Thanks, I’ll give that a shot - just for clarity, I’m using the blue shop paper towels.  I’d rather use the reusable ones but I’m always afraid the fibers will scratch.  I’m probably just being paranoid since they are microfiber.

[alextstone]

21 hours ago, carusoam said:

Alex,

The system is pretty simple... so if fluid enters a TKS panel, and comes out in some areas, and it doesn’t come through all of the areas... that is an indication that something may be blocking the flow... or something is allowing the flow to go elsewhere...

1) if it is blocked locally, at the individual panel...

That something has made its way through the pumps and filters... so, it is probably a situation of dried TKS fluid?

Is there a recommended fluid used for cleaning up dried TKS fluid?

 

2) Most likely... not enough fluid is being delivered to the panel... it just runs out the first holes it comes to...  this would be a challenge created by the flow valves... balancing the overall system seems to make some sense...  especially if balancing the system means stopping a leak that is allowing flow away from where it belongs... 

 

It is such a simple system, See if you can find your system drawing for where all the parts are located... expect something simple to be the actual problem...

Find a way to do a baby food jar test... like checking the flow balance of fuel coming out of a fuel injector... only using TKS and plastic bags?  

PP thoughts only, lots of manual reading, no first hand experience on this one...

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks, I'll give that a try

[MrRodgers]

Thanks, I’ll give that a shot - just for clarity, I’m using the blue shop paper towels.  I’d rather use the reusable ones but I’m always afraid the fibers will scratch.  I’m probably just being paranoid since they are microfiber.

A clean micro fiber towel won’t scratch the surface. Blue shop towels are fine for other applications.




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[gsxrpilot]

WashWax All actually sells a scrub pad that I use on the leading edges to get the bugs off. I spray everything down and let it soak for a couple of minutes then get the scrubber out. After scrubbing the bugs off, then spray it all down again and use a microfiber towel to finish it off.

Almost forgot... never use anything but microfiber towels on the windows.

[MrRodgers]

WashWax All actually sells a scrub pad that I use on the leading edges to get the bugs off. I spray everything down and let it soak for a couple of minutes then get the scrubber out. After scrubbing the bugs off, then spray it all down again and use a microfiber towel to finish it off.

Here’s the kit I purchased to use with WashWax All.

https://washwax.com/collections/the-wash-wax-mop




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[Hank]

2 hours ago, Davidv said:

Thanks, I’ll give that a shot - just for clarity, I’m using the blue shop paper towels.  I’d rather use the reusable ones but I’m always afraid the fibers will scratch.  I’m probably just being paranoid since they are microfiber.

I do one panel at a time, spray with a squirt / spray bottle (no pumping required; I use one the holds about a quart). Scrub with a clean, 100% cotton terrycloth washcloth (bought cheap, generally 36 in a bundle) and buff with a 100% cotton terrycloth handtowel (bought cheap in bundles of 24). When the buffer is too damp to buff, I hang it up to dry and grab another one. I'm generally ready to quit by the time the second towel is too damp to leave a dry surface. 

If bugs won't come off, hit 'em again and scrub harder. If the spray dries before yiu can buff it, spray it again. Don't let the spray dry on your plane (per the instructions on the bottle). Spray, scrub, buff dry; move a little bit; spray, scrub, buff dry. It ain't rocket science here, it's just tiring.

Don't spray a larger surface than you can scrub and buff before it dries. And don't spray it on so heavy that it's dripping off.

[WilliamR]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 4:17 PM, Mark89114 said:

Slightly off topic a bit....so not a complete thread hijack.  Any experience with the ceramic coatings that seem to be the rage?  My mooney's paint is in bad shape so wouldn't benefit, but I was considering it for my car till I was told about $750 to $1500 for a professional application.  Seems like a lot of money.  Yes I could google it but you end up getting a 1000 cleverly written articles which are just advertisements.

 

I do a lot of work around detailing my plane and cars (calms my OCD tendencies, ha!).   After paint correction, I did a compare between a very high end wax ($60+ per bottle) on the top of one wing and glass coating on the other.  After a month or two, I flew in one night in heavy rain and compared the two wings.  No difference noted. 

Where the glass coating wins in spades is durability.  On the belly, the glass coating makes cleaning the nose gear doors and belly a breeze including that hard to get off and corrosive white exhaust residue.  Any oil drips right off.  Any small amount remaining can be wiped with a wet microfiber towel.  

The glass coating really holds up.  However, if you don't know what your doing in the glass application process, you can really screw it up where it will be a huge amount of work to correct (not impossible, just a huge amount of work).  Like many days buffing it off for a car.  Can't imagine how long it would be for a plane to fix.

Oh, and $750 to $1500 for a car is about right.  I don't think I could find anyone reputable that would do a car for less than $1,000 here in Atlanta.

William

[jaylw314]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 6:50 PM, Hank said:

I do one panel at a time, spray with a squirt / spray bottle (no pumping required; I use one the holds about a quart). Scrub with a clean, 100% cotton terrycloth washcloth (bought cheap, generally 36 in a bundle) and buff with a 100% cotton terrycloth handtowel (bought cheap in bundles of 24). When the buffer is too damp to buff, I hang it up to dry and grab another one. I'm generally ready to quit by the time the second towel is too damp to leave a dry surface. 

If bugs won't come off, hit 'em again and scrub harder. If the spray dries before yiu can buff it, spray it again. Don't let the spray dry on your plane (per the instructions on the bottle). Spray, scrub, buff dry; move a little bit; spray, scrub, buff dry. It ain't rocket science here, it's just tiring.

Don't spray a larger surface than you can scrub and buff before it dries. And don't spray it on so heavy that it's dripping off.

For the spray, a quick trick is to use a couple drops of car wash detergent in a spray bottle full of water as a quick-and-dirty detailing spray.  The tiny bit of detergent keeps the water from beading up and running off and helps decrease any scratches from debris as you wipe it down, but it's not enough to leave any appreciable residue.

I just put it in one of those 2 qt pump spray bottles for insecticide, and mist it over the windshield,  tail, wings and cowl after a flight.  Then I go in reverse order wiping it down, misting it a little more before hand if it's gotten dry.  I use a microfiber mop head--it's really thick so less chance of me using too much pressure.  By the time I get back to the windshield, I hit it with a spray instead of a mist and most of the gunk is off, then I wipe it down with a separate microfiber towel.

Edited May 6, 2019 by jaylw314

[tigers2007]

I bought two bottles of Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic Wax and coated the plane on Friday. It turned out great. Note that you only need to use a tiny tiny amount to coat a large surface. Some guys on the Meguiars forum are mixing it 20 parts water, 1 part solution. I probably overused it and still only went through less than a quarter of the bottle. 

https://www.meguiars.com/automotive/products/meguiars-hybrid-ceramic-wax-easy-use-ceramic-wax-protection-g190526-26-oz

Meguiars informational video: 

 

 

[Davidv]

I apologize if this was already covered in the topic but what do you find is the best wet wash concentrate that works great and won’t harm paint?

[mike_elliott]

On 4/27/2019 at 10:44 AM, exM20K said:

+1 on the wash wax all, and their red formula works well on the belly with minimal agitation.  A little 100LL on a microfiber rag will clean up the tks panels, but I’ve found them to be mostly self-cleaning.  You do run the system at least monthly rear round, right?  

-de

 Good point on the Tks  panels, Dan. It is my understanding the only approved cleaners are jet A and 100 LL

[WilliamR]

16 hours ago, Davidv said:

I apologize if this was already covered in the topic but what do you find is the best wet wash concentrate that works great and won’t harm paint?

I like Meguiars Gold Class.  I've used Wash Wax All in a wet setting and found no appreciable difference.  However, that may be because I have all my vehicles glass coated. 

BTW, with a glass coating, bugs just wipe right off; usually one swipe with a light spritz of water. 

William

[Davidv]

Thanks William.

[exM20K]

So I had posted before about my difficulty getting the yellow/gray LOP exhaust stains off the belly,  and I did find a solution.  The detail shop near me, who did a very nice job fixing my paint, recommend (and sell) a product for this.  

https://realcleanproducts.com/products/turbine-soot-master?variant=12548333764663

I tried it a few weeks ago, and it really does a nice job of lifting that exhaust residue off the belly. Bonus is that it's a waterless wash - just bring a lot of microfiber towels.

Stuff is on sale on their website through 5/25:

https://realcleanproducts.com/pages/sale

 

I highly recommend this product and shop.

-dan