Accerated IFR CFII Reccomendations

[David_H]

I'm looking into the possibility of getting my IFR ticket this summer sometime between the end of May and the end of July of this year. I've been needing to do this for some time. Perhaps I can bring this to the front of the line this year. I realize and agree that there are pros and cons to this type of training.

My thoughts are to fly somewhere withing reasonable "Mooney Distance" to concentrate solely on preparing for the practical over a couple weeks time without distractions. I'm based out in the Midwest at 1I9. Can anyone share any good recommendations they might have for a CFII that might be good for this?

[toto]

I've heard very positive things about Gatts in Manhattan, KS. It's basically a one-week program with a checkride at the end. 

[carusoam]

It may be best for you to separate out your training over time... leaves a longer lasting impression.

But if you are a hard charging, working guy...  a dozen days nearly in a row may work really well...

And if you are really good at aviation already... can memorize tons of details... a 10 day course is perfect...

I used AmericanFlyers and probably took 12 days to complete... got lots of night, crappy weather, cleaning ice off the airframe before flight, winter winds, and some ice forming on the windshield... December holiday type training...

I was between Mooneys at the time and used their fleet of C172s...

I liked working with a bunch of different CFIIs... the Syllabus is very straight forwards... a lot of work segments... documenting each step as you complete them...

The IR is As much gaining experience as it is gaining knowledge... the more variations you can get the more valuable the training is...

The only things I would have done differently was use my own Mooney, and use a variety of Mooney specific CFIIs...

Go Get ‘em!

Best regards,

-a-

https://americanflyers.com/morristown/

[Austintatious]

a silly suggestion, but you can learn a lot with self study and even using a simulator on a computer.  I used to practice a lot of IFR on X plane.  If you go into it knowing what you are doing, it goes by a lot faster.

[M20F]

The two things which can help you accelerate in my experience are:

1.  Get the written/oral components done on your own.  There is memorization (600/2 and 800/2) don’t really need a CFII for this just a book.

2.  Get some form of flight simulator and do a lot of approaches.  I recommend using the auto pilot because the goal is understanding what the dials are telling you, where you are, and how an approach works.  Using the auto pilot (altitude hold and heading bug only so you command the turns/heading choices) to fly the sim allows you to really focus on that and the play back helps to see how you did (turned left when you should have turned right). Do not use a GPS during this process it will impede your ability to develop situational awareness.  The best approaches which really don’t exist anymore are ADF’s which will teach you everything about how wind impacts an airplane that you really don’t notice when you are VMC (if you have flown more then 50hrs VMC your brain just corrects for the wind when you can look out the window, you have to learn the same thing for when you can’t). 

Then you transition to the flying part which isn’t that hard.  To me IMC is about situational awareness and when you master it your brain knows exactly where you are on the map without thinking.  Similar to when you were a kid learning how to ride a bike at first you had to concentrate but then it just became muscle memory. 

It is way too hard to master the flying portion if you don’t know where you are or where you need to go.  Train your brain and then learn how to fly without seeing and you will find the in airplane time is minimal and quick. 

Being a lousy stick and rudder IMC pilot wandering a bit and up and down a bit won’t kill you.  Thinking the mountain is on your left when it is really on your right however will.  It is all a mental rating.  

[201er]

I’d suggest 5 hours of dual to learn what you gotta know, 30 hours of hood time with safety pilots, then 5 more or whatever you need of dual in prep for checkride. Most of it is hood time and doesn’t require direct instruction. Be prepared to buy a lot of lunches or sign PIC time to someone who needs it. 

[Austintatious]

I agree with M20f.... Howevver I would add that once you feel comfortable with where you are at, do some hand flying on the sim... A good instrument scan is SO SO very important.

 

[carusoam]

Flying right seat, acting as a safety pilot, for somebody practicing IFR procedures is an incredibly rewarding experience... 

-a-

[skydvrboy]

56 minutes ago, toto said:

I've heard very positive things about Gatts in Manhattan, KS. It's basically a one-week program with a checkride at the end. 

+1 for Gatts.  I haven't used them myself, but a good friend of mine did.  Train in your own plane (or theirs for more $$$) for 7 days, they hangar it for you at night, put you up in their apartment, provide transportation, checkride at the end, if you don't pass, all additional training is free until you do.  Total cost is $5850 which includes your check ride fee.

[RLCarter]

take a look at 61.65,  The aeronautical experience is were a lot fall short if they haven't done much X-Country flying. Most are ready to take the ck ride in 30~35 hours, Check off the things you dont need in 61.65, grab a CFII (15hrs of dual is required) and go for it, also find a safety pilot and starting knocking out some hours on your own. If you do need X-Country time, do it under the hood and kill two birds with one stone

[David_H]

It gets old scrubbing flights that would likely be 90% VFR. I frequently use the Mooney to travel for 2-3hr trips across multiple states so weather considerations becomes more important. Since I'm often heading either North or South, there's usually weather to be considered. I'm fairly conservative so I don't really participate in scud running while hunting for a sucker hole to get on top. I like to keep as many options as possible open so I don't have to demonstrate some great piloting abilities that I may... or may-not have.

I have enough X-Country time and can check off most of the boxes in 61.65. I'll need to get the written passed prior to beginning... but don't see that as a major hurdle.

Finding a CFII experienced with getting people through a grinding training schedule seems like the major hurdle.

Finding a local CFII and safety pilot isn't a bad idea either. However, scheduling can become more involved.

[Marauder]

It gets old scrubbing flights that would likely be 90% VFR. I frequently use the Mooney to travel for 2-3hr trips across multiple states so weather considerations becomes more important. Since I'm often heading either North or South, there's usually weather to be considered. I'm fairly conservative so I don't really participate in scud running while hunting for a sucker hole to get on top. I like to keep as many options as possible open so I don't have to demonstrate some great piloting abilities that I may... or may-not have.

I have enough X-Country time and can check off most of the boxes in 61.65. I'll need to get the written passed prior to beginning... but don't see that as a major hurdle.

Finding a CFII experienced with getting people through a grinding training schedule seems like the major hurdle.

Finding a local CFII and safety pilot isn't a bad idea either. However, scheduling can become more involved.

 

I believe there are still those 10 day courses where the instructor comes to you and you spend everyday flying. For some, this works out fine. Usually these are folks who have been flying a while and have time in the plane. It does require blocking the time off but I know that they have worked around people’s work schedule. Option?

 

https://www.iflyifr.com/10-day-ifr-course/

 

 

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[David_H]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

I believe there are still those 10 day courses where the instructor comes to you and you spend everyday flying. For some, this works out fine. Usually these are folks who have been flying a while and have time in the plane. It does require blocking the time off but I know that they have worked around people’s work schedule. Option?

That is certainly an option. There are a few programs out there but I don't know much about them. It seems like it's a bit of a hit-or-miss on what people think about them. My thoughts are that it may depend more on the CFII doing the course than anything else.

It might be good to fly the Mooney somewhere, find a crash pad, and concentrate on the practical. For good or bad, people seem to view someone as available if they're physically around.

[Bravoman]

I used the course years ago referenced above by Marauder.  I had a great experience with it. My instructor was a Vietnam forward air control pilot who was an Air Force Academy grad. I learned long after the training that he had a very impressive record in the service, was awarded two distinguished flying Crosses  amoung other things. A serious taskmaster, and learned a lot from him. Got it knocked out in 10 days, and that is kind of the way I like to do things.  Would highly recommend.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Bravoman

[RLCarter]

57 minutes ago, David_H said:

That is certainly an option. There are a few programs out there but I don't know much about them. It seems like it's a bit of a hit-or-miss on what people think about them. My thoughts are that it may depend more on the CFII doing the course than anything else.

It might be good to fly the Mooney somewhere, find a crash pad, and concentrate on the practical. For good or bad, people seem to view someone as available if they're physically around.

I got with a local CFII and he had another student that had just started on his IR. We flew on Mon, Wed and Fri some with the CFII and mostly as each other's Safety Pilot (weather permitting) and it worked out well for us

[Andy95W]

11 hours ago, 201er said:

I’d suggest 5 hours of dual to learn what you gotta know, 30 hours of hood time with safety pilots, then 5 more or whatever you need of dual in prep for checkride. Most of it is hood time and doesn’t require direct instruction. Be prepared to buy a lot of lunches or sign PIC time to someone who needs it. 

This is really great advice.  (Although I think FAR Part 61 requires 20 hours with an instructor, not 10).

[tigers2007]

At $50/hr for an instructor, GATTS will cost you 117 hours of instruction at your local field. Or go see if ol’ Herb is still running Prairie Air Service. Get your IFR and Multi at the same time for $6k or so in three weeks.


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[201er]

20 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

This is really great advice.  (Although I think FAR Part 61 requires 20 hours with an instructor, not 10).

I think somehow we worked it out that my PPL and BFR hood times with instructor counted so I only needed like 10-15 or something like that. So check your logbook and see if the instructor/examiner buys that.

Edited April 10, 2019 by 201er

[Rick Junkin]

I went to the folks at Livingston Aviation livingstonaviation.com at Waterloo IA KALO for an accelerated Commercial course and was very pleased. Waterloo is less than 300 miles from you and worth a day trip to go talk to them and see if you like them. Chad Lee and Erik Mondt are the instructors that I worked with - both were very good and worked to my needs.

Look at their web page for their course offerings and prices. Definitely not for CBs, but they will get it done for you and make sure you are competent when you leave.

As for the benefits of accelerated training - preparation for each and every day is key, and you need to have the mindset that you will continue flying regularly after you get your rating. Immersion training is extremely effective for a lot of people. I personally prefer it. Its what the military and the airlines use for a reason.

Full disclosure - I'm going back there for two weeks in June to knock out my CFI/CFII. I've been an instructor of another kind for over 30 years so this option works really well for me. And I'm fortunate to have more money than time (this year...) so I can make sense of the economic end.

Cheers,
Rick

[gander99]

I used CRAFT for a 6 day instrument course about 6 weeks ago.  They are out of Charleston, SC so they may be too far away.  I did the course in my M20F and they also have a redbird simulator.  It was very straightforward.  Like most accelerated classes you have have your written done.  The flying was easy (we even took a day off in the middle of the 6 days).  A few days into the course, I knew I could fly any of the approaches.  Then it was just repetition.  We flew about 5.5 hour of actual.  The checkride was straightforward and there were no surprises.  I wont say I wasnt nervous, but it was just the same thing I had done many times.

I flew in actual on the way home from the checkride. No bigger.  I still have personal minimums, but I feel adequately prepared.

[211º]

Let us know which path you use. I want and need to knock mine out and am going to call GATTS tomorrow to see about scheduling windows. I need some self-induced urgency to push my written forward.

 

 

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[whiskytango]

+1 on GATTS.  I got my IFR and Commercial through them, and the training was excellent on both.

[carusoam]

Nice timely pirep, Gander!

Best regards,

-a-

[David_H]

The suggestions from everyone have been very helpful. I have a few emails out and some active conversations ongoing.

In the meantime, I've printed out a copy of the latest ACS to get a better idea of what to expect on the check-ride. I never thought I would hear myself say the PTS looked better than anything.

[carusoam]

Getting the PPL covers so many topics that are new to an aspiring pilot...

Once you have been gaining experience... Adding the IFR covers most topics that you already are familiar with, just in more detail...

Where the challenge is... the amount of detail to cover is pretty high...

If you haven’t been to school in years...  the study and memorization part can be a challenge at first.  Even the procedures take a fair amount of memorization of how to go through them properly...

 

The work may be challenging... but the rewards can be felt immediately...  

IFR Training is a blast!

PP thoughts only, not a CFII...

Best regards,

-a-