Climb Setting question

[MATTS875]

I know this may have been answered before, but on climb my instructor is telling me to throttle back to 24 squared in climb.  I have a 201. I have read that some use WOT all the way. So my question is during climb do you use WOT and adjust the prop. I know this is a basic question but I have read several ways of different power settings in climb. Thanks for any advice.

[larrynimmo]

at 400 agl, I switch to 25x25 and lean to 12 gph and it does well keeping head temps below 360 degrees....cowl flaps are kept open except when its very cold out

[ArtVandelay]

WOT, 2700-2600 all the way up.

I’m guessing your instructor is older or a freshly minted CFI.

Tom

 

[MATTS875]

21 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

WOT, 2700-2600 all the way up.

I’m guessing your instructor is older or a freshly minted CFI.

Tom

 

 

27 minutes ago, larrynimmo said:

at 400 agl, I switch to 25x25 and lean to 12 gph and it does well keeping head temps below 360 degrees....cowl flaps are kept open except when its very cold out

Thanks , I will try it. When I’m doing 24 sq I’m not getting much in climb performance 

[amillet]

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/powersettings.html

[Hank]

Climb WOT/2700. Search here for "Target EGT" leaning if you don't want to climb full rich. Reducing power just makes your climb to altitude take longer at a lower airspeed, whuch reduces cooling airflow through the cowl. I push everything forward even when step-climbing after ATC makes me level off at an intermediate altitude (where I set power and lean).

[MATTS875]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

Climb WOT/2700. Search here for "Target EGT" leaning if you don't want to climb full rich. Reducing power just makes your climb to altitude take longer at a lower airspeed, whuch reduces cooling airflow through the cowl. I push everything forward even when step-climbing after ATC makes me level off at an intermediate altitude (where I set power and lean).

Thanks for the input.  I’m flying this weekend and I’ll try this method. 

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, MATTS875 said:

I know this may have been answered before, but on climb my instructor is telling me to throttle back to 24 squared in climb.  I have a 201. I have read that some use WOT all the way. So my question is during climb do you use WOT and adjust the prop. I know this is a basic question but I have read several ways of different power settings in climb. Thanks for any advice.

The "climb squared" came from old style engine management. It was written up in my POH that way. I stopped doing that years ago. There is some benefit for noise reduction but not enough for me anyways to warrant lowering the power settings on climb.

[Bob_Belville]

BTTW. 

Above about 3000' lean mixture slightly to ~ 300 ROP EGT. Above about 6000' lean to ~ 200 RoP EGT.

[carusoam]

+1 for Bob Kromer’s details... Bob was a test pilot/engineer for Mooney.  He has done a great job debunking the usual non-Mooney CFI flying 101 kind of things... not so much a debunk as it was bringing things to the next level... Bob K. gave a great presentation this past year at the Mooney Summit... Vx vs. Vy departures...

+1 for Hank’s explanation on additional details....

+1 for NA engines WOT all the way to altitude...  adjusting target mixture all the way up... Some modern Mooneys have a blue box on the EGt gauge for better EGt control during climb... G1000 panels have a white box...   Bob’s detail above... works for the M20E as well, for the same reasons.

 

The first few times you do this... follow the CHTs pretty closely...  

• if the FF is set too low, the CHTs will show the heat....
• if the cooling baffles are in good condition, this is where it will show up...
• Climbing out at 120ias works pretty well for keeping CHTs in control...

When everything has been proven to work properly, enjoy the climb!

PP recollection of what was stated pretty clearly in this thread by so many MSers...  

Best regards,

-a-

[skydvrboy]

Use the KISS method and keep it simple.  WOT, full RPM from takeoff to cruise altitude (adjust mix to target).  To transition to cruise, leave WOT, reduce RPM to 2500, & LOP.  For descent, leave everything as is, lower the nose, and enjoy the speed!  Only need to reduce throttle when you want to land.

[N9201A]

I know this may have been answered before, but on climb my instructor is telling me to throttle back to 24 squared in climb.  I have a 201. I have read that some use WOT all the way. So my question is during climb do you use WOT and adjust the prop. I know this is a basic question but I have read several ways of different power settings in climb. Thanks for any advice.

I hear this all the time (not just with Mooneys). I always ask: “Why?”

To date I’ve yet to receive a substantive answer based on real data or verifiable facts. It’s always OWT, inapplicable to NA flat engines, or some opinion-based belief, not objective.

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, MATTS875 said:

I know this may have been answered before, but on climb my instructor is telling me to throttle back to 24 squared in climb.  I have a 201. I have read that some use WOT all the way. So my question is during climb do you use WOT and adjust the prop. I know this is a basic question but I have read several ways of different power settings in climb. Thanks for any advice.

+1 on the WOT/2700 RPM climb all the way to altitude.  The main benefit is simplicity at a time when you're usually busy with other stuff.

I think the "leaning to target EGT" people referred to is:

1. On takeoff, make a mental note of one of your EGT's
2. During climb, the EGT will drop as the mixture gets richer.  Every minute or so, crank the mixture back until it is about equal to your takeoff EGT.  No need to be exact or perfect, just within 25 degF or so

Alternatively, you could just stay full rich until 5000' MSL, and then lean until the engine sounds the loudest (best power).

[Hank]

4 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

+1 on the WOT/2700 RPM climb all the way to altitude.  The main benefit is simplicity at a time when you're usually busy with other stuff.

I think the "leaning to target EGT" people referred to is:

1. On takeoff, make a mental note of one of your EGT's
2. During climb, the EGT will drop as the mixture gets richer.  Every minute or so, crank the mixture back until it is about equal to your takeoff EGT.  No need to be exact or perfect, just within 25 degF or so

Alternatively, you could just stay full rich until 5000' MSL, and then lean until the engine sounds the loudest (best power).

Target EGT requires writing down the EGT on takeoff in a standard day at sea level (or as close to it as you can get), this becomes your Target. As you climb, periodically lean to this particular Target EGT. Use this same Target EGT for subsequent takeoffs andnclimbs to altitude. Or use Bob's KISS method. 

My Owners Manual recommends climbing at 26 / 2600. But once I push them forward for takeoff, the only one I move is the red one until I'm at my desired altitude, level, retrimmed and accelerated as fast as she will go. Then I set my desired power and lean the engine, watching the airspeed increass more. But you won't set power the way I do, since you don't have a carburetor. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Hank

[gsxrpilot]

For turbo Mooney drivers, it's one step easier. WOT, 2700, Full Rich... all the way to altitude, which might be in the flight levels.

[larrynimmo]

9 hours ago, larrynimmo said:

at 400 agl, I switch to 25x25 and lean to 12 gph and it does well keeping head temps below 360 degrees....cowl flaps are kept open except when its very cold out

if my plane weight is in the mid range, I typically can climb at about 800 ft per minute until I get to about 5,000 msl...leaning as I go and I am at full throttle by 6,500msl

[BDPetersen]

In 1964, when I first experienced the wonder of Mooney’s and constant speed props, it was being advocated to leave the throttle “stuffed in” and back off the prop a tad for climb ( oversquare). This came from the factory. So for at least 55 years this radical idea has remained radical, apparently. Makes me feel forever young.

[Bob - S50]

Here are a couple good articles for you to read.  The first one is pretty long but is excellent for learning what is happening in your engine and why.  The next two will address your question.  There are LOTS of other articles there so browse through the list and see what else looks interesting.

Mixture Magic - John Deakin

Takeoff and Initial Climb

Climb

[kris_adams]

WOT/2700 camp here too.

[Davidv]

Anyone here with a Bravo to weigh in?  I was actually wondering the same thing since I've been using both low and high power settings but want to do what's best for engine.

[Bob - S50]

Oh ya, forgot, my technique. '78 J.

WOT, 2700 RPM, full rich for takeoff.  At 100 KIAS, cowl flaps to trailing.  Keep this until 1000 AGL.

At 1000 AGL, lower the nose and climb at 115 KIAS.

As I climb, lean to 1300 EGT on #4 which I know is the hottest cylinder.  That's what it is at takeoff and about 220 or 230 ROP on my engine.

When my climb drops to 500 FPM, maintain 500 FPM until I'm down to 100 KIAS then climb the rest of the way at 100 KIAS.

At 7500' start leaning to 1350 instead of 1300.  Above that the engine will be making less than 75% power so I'm not concerned about detonation.  I've tried leaning to max power of about 1400 (about 100 ROP) but I've found that I may need to open the cowl flaps to full open to keep my hottest cylinder below 400.

[Cyril Gibb]

11 hours ago, MATTS875 said:

I know this may have been answered before, but on climb my instructor is telling me to throttle back to 24 squared in climb...

You might consider the possibility your instructor may be providing incorrect guidance on topics other than just the "squared" nonsense.  Perhaps trying a different instructor would be in order.

[Bob_Belville]

33 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

7500' start leaning to 1350 instead of 1300.  Above that the engine will be making less than 75% power so I'm not concerned about detonation.  I've tried leaning to max power of about 1400 (about 100 ROP) but I've found that I may need to open the cowl flaps to full open to keep my hottest cylinder below 400.

Bob, have you tried LOP? I give up about 7 ktas to save over 2 gph while running quite a bit cooler CHTs. 

[Bob - S50]

26 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Bob, have you tried LOP? I give up about 7 ktas to save over 2 gph while running quite a bit cooler CHTs. 

I cruise LOP but I climb ROP.  But that's another topic.

[Oldguy]

In my J, I use WOT, full prop, and V_x climb to 1,000' then nose over and keep a 115-120 kt. climb until it drops to 500 FPM. Then it is whatever speed will maintain 500 FPM until my cruising altitude. During the climb, I start leaning at 3,000' to maintain my takeoff EGTs. Once at cruise, it is nose over, close up cowl flaps, set prop to 2,500 RPM, and lean to my desired EGTs. In flight climb is WOT, 2,600 RPM, enrich fuel, open cowl flaps, and keep 105-110 kt. climb.

Down here in Alabama in the summer, this typically keeps my oil temp below 200 and my hottest CHT is <360 dF.