The AV 30 Looks Good

[cliffy]

Back from long trip

Was able to get to the "factory". We're talking small start up here BUT they seem to be doing it right

Everything is being designed from the ground up with a PMA in mind. The  Feds like that. 

BTW, this is NOT their first rodeo. They were involved from the ground up with another aviation panel maker. 

The unit looks good, well thought out and made. They have an IA on staff who knows what he is doing also. These will be a simple swap out for the old AI and DG. With the different screens available, you can use what you like on the presentation. Much better than buying a new or overhauled vacuum AI or DG. Keep things simple and cheaper but with new electronic goodies in the panel. 

All in all its going to be a winner I think. Keeping the "old school" panel look but having new electronic instrumentation. 

[mike_elliott]

10 hours ago, cliffy said:

Back from long trip

Was able to get to the "factory". We're talking small start up here BUT they seem to be doing it right

Everything is being designed from the ground up with a PMA in mind. The  Feds like that. 

BTW, this is NOT their first rodeo. They were involved from the ground up with another aviation panel maker. 

The unit looks good, well thought out and made. They have an IA on staff who knows what he is doing also. These will be a simple swap out for the old AI and DG. With the different screens available, you can use what you like on the presentation. Much better than buying a new or overhauled vacuum AI or DG. Keep things simple and cheaper but with new electronic goodies in the panel. 

All in all its going to be a winner I think. Keeping the "old school" panel look but having new electronic instrumentation. 

Cliff, any chance Jeff Bethel will add a D/A converter to talk to the KF/AP 150 AP's so it could be used as a replacement for the ever failing fine swiss watch KI256's, or did AP interfacing options come up? We know he can do it, He and Pete Lyons did it as Aspen. Even PTK is getting worn down on waiting for the vapoKi 300

 

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Cliff, any chance Jeff Bethel will add a D/A converter to talk to the KF/AP 150 AP's so it could be used as a replacement for the ever failing fine swiss watch KI256's, or did AP interfacing options come up? We know he can do it, He and Pete Lyons did it as Aspen. Even PTK is getting worn down on waiting for the vapoKi 300

 

My PI has provided some pictures on the whereabouts of Peter Garmin. Snapped a shot of him sitting in his car outside of the BK warehouse checking the BK website. 

Bad news for him, the PI also snapped a picture inside of the warehouse.

[cliffy]

Mike  we didn't talk about that Looks like their full focus is on getting the basic units out first

[MIm20c]

2 hours ago, nosky2high said:

Latest update from AeroVonics 

https://gem.godaddy.com/p/96857d?fe=1&pact=813-148821251-11432166114-a1ab3307ca1a20af6c98080ac91dbafa20a3cc76

Wow, great news!

[Steve W]

A few months ago I'd have said they'll probably beat the KI-300 and adapter to market with the AV-30 and adapter. but now it actually looks like King might ship next year. The AV-30 would seem to be a much more affordable solution though. 

If the AV-30 and adapter can manage to work as an autopilot AI with both King and Century I expect they'll be flying off the shelves.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Steve W

[milotron]

I am really looking forward to seeing this unit become available with the autopilot functions noted. 

Like the previous post notes, they will not be able to make enough of these if they pull this off.

 

 

[tigers2007]

I was going to create a new thread but I figured it would be proper to bring this one back up from the dead. Has anyone been following AeroVonic's updates? They're taking deposits for the AV-30 certified PFD for AI and DG installations. Checkout their web site https://aerovonics.com/av-30.  $1595 for either certified (mid/late 2019 release) or experimental. Add $799 for the APA-10 interface box (early 2020 release).

APA-10:

"AUTOPILOT INTEGRATION (NEW):

When combined with the APA-10 AutoPilot Adapter, the AV-30 can interface to legacy autopilots (Cessna ARC series, Century Series, STEC and Bendix King).  See the overall architecture diagram provided in the photo gallery below. A single APA-10 Adapter interfaces to dual AV-30's and provides attitude, heading/course datum to the autopilot, and supports flight director interface for KI-256 emulation."

 

Too good to be true? They seem to have entered the market with the AV-20 so far. I hope they are making money.

 

[gsxrpilot]

I bought and installed an AV20S. I haven't flown with it yet but will report back when I do.

[Ragsf15e]

I’ve been considering doing 1 G5 just to get rid of my vacuum system (mechanical King HSI works fine for now), but I’d really like to prevent “mission creep” on this very minor panel upgrade.  Next thing I know it’ll look like Marauders or DonKaye!  Anyway, G5 requires enough space for a big square or cutting panel for flush mount (not room for flush mount bracket in my panel - instruments too close together).  The $$ of g5 seems good although the av30 is half price.  I’m starting to think AV30 makes more sense for super easy swap to enable getting rid of vacuum. 

Anyone know what happens if it loses pitot static?  It doesn’t have gps interface, does it go “red x” like old Aspens if you get pitot ice?

 

[tigers2007]

I’ve been considering doing 1 G5 just to get rid of my vacuum system (mechanical King HSI works fine for now), but I’d really like to prevent “mission creep” on this very minor panel upgrade.  Next thing I know it’ll look like Marauders or DonKaye!  Anyway, G5 requires enough space for a big square or cutting panel for flush mount (not room for flush mount bracket in my panel - instruments too close together).  The $$ of g5 seems good although the av30 is half price.  I’m starting to think AV30 makes more sense for super easy swap to enable getting rid of vacuum. 
Anyone know what happens if it loses pitot static?  It doesn’t have gps interface, does it go “red x” like old Aspens if you get pitot ice?
 

Email the development crew at AeroVonics. That is a great question.


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[0TreeLemur]

On 2/22/2019 at 8:39 AM, gsxrpilot said:

I bought and installed an AV20S. I haven't flown with it yet but will report back when I do.

I really like the AV-20S as a timer, TAS indicator, and knowing that it has a backup AI is comforting.   Every time I've checked it in flight it has agreed with my gyroscopic attitude indicator.

That said, I was unable to calibrate the AV20S "probeless" AoA indicator in my M20C.  Using reasonable limits like cruise AoA=3 deg. and max Cl AoA=12 deg. it doesn't seem to work.  I reported this to the manufacturer and they confirmed to me that the probeless AoA sensor in the AV-20S doesn't work well in Mooneys.   It can be disabled in the options and I have done that.  

When I experienced the pitot-tube transient while flying through rain last weekend, I had not yet disabled the AV-20S probeless AoA sensor.  It pretty much screamed at me "lower the nose!" when that was not needed.  I've since disabled it.  I reported that behavior to Aerovonics.  That is when they told me that they have observed difficulties with the probeless AoA  sensor in Mooney aircraft, and they told me how to disable that feature, which I have done.

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, Fred₂O said:

I really like the AV-20S as a timer, TAS indicator, and knowing that it has a backup AI is comforting.   Every time I've checked it in flight it has agreed with my gyroscopic attitude indicator.

That said, I was unable to calibrate the AV20S "probeless" AoA indicator in my M20C.  Using reasonable limits like cruise AoA=3 deg. and max Cl AoA=12 deg. it doesn't seem to work.  I reported this to the manufacturer and they confirmed to me that the probeless AoA sensor in the AV-20S doesn't work well in Mooneys.   It can be disabled in the options and I have done that.  

When I experienced the pitot-tube transient while flying through rain last weekend, I had not yet disabled the AV-20S probeless AoA sensor.  It pretty much screamed at me "lower the nose!" when that was not needed.  I've since disabled it.  I reported that behavior to Aerovonics.  That is when they told me that they have observed difficulties with the probeless AoA  sensor in Mooney aircraft, and they told me how to disable that feature, which I have done.

Interesting. I thought it might be very similar to the aspen system. However, I was told they had to pay a high royalty to the designer for every unlock sold. 

[jetdriven]

Our own Brian Lloyd installed one in his acro plane and its basically useless as an AOA. it uses GPS WAAS 3D data to infer an AOA but it relies heavily on pitch atttiude. As such, when you need it most, say a base to final turn, it shows a completely erroneous AOA value. I dont think it can be fixed with software.

Its like an iPhone knife app. You get robbed, you open the app, it shows a knife and you attempt to stab the thief. you need real hardware, such as an AOA probe.

[Ragsf15e]

I believe it doesn’t work well as an AOA, however, it doesn’t have any connection to a gps, waas or otherwise.  It’s using the ahrs, pitot, and static.  There is no gps internal or connection to external.

[jetdriven]

i see.  Its still useless as an AOA.

from the Mooney Pilots FB page.

Brian Lloyd I have an AV20 and have been working with the manufacturer on it. The AoA does NOT work properly. It only works in unaccelerated flight when the airplane is mostly level and not turning. It fails just when you need it most, when you start to pull in a turn. I have one in my CAP10B aerobatic airplane where I can experiment with it. Do NOT rely on it to help you in a turn. It assumes there is a realationship between pitch attitude and AoA, which is NOT a valid assumption. Sure, if you are doing straight-ahead stalls it will work but not once you start pulling hard in a turn. A 60-degree-bank accelerated stall completely confuses it. It is interesting to watch the AoA indication decrease just as the airplane approaches stall."

Edited February 24, 2019 by jetdriven

[MIm20c]

I would have to agree with BHF on this.  This should not have been released with the AOA working like this. Allowing only the few that complain to disable it worries me about the complacency of the company/FAA to be honest. 

[tigers2007]

Must be a small firm. They’re test platform is in a C150? I ran the N# shown on a panel photo. GoFundMe time?


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[Shadrach]

47 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

Must be a small firm. They’re test platform is in a C150? I ran the N# shown on a panel photo. GoFundMe time?


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A C150 is a fine platform for the type of testing they’re doing. What would be the advantage using a larger, more expensive aircraft? Perhaps it would impress customers?

[toto]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

A C150 is a fine platform for the type of testing they’re doing. What would be the advantage using a larger, more expensive aircraft? Perhaps it would impress customers?

A C-150 is also certified for limited aerobatics, which might allow testing some unusual attitudes that you couldn't test in a Mooney.

[Shadrach]

27 minutes ago, toto said:

A C-150 is also certified for limited aerobatics, which might allow testing some unusual attitudes that you couldn't test in a Mooney.

Indeed that was part of the reason for my comment. Accelerated stalls and spins are benign in a C150.

[Ragsf15e]

On 2/22/2019 at 7:53 PM, tigers2007 said:

 

Email the development crew at AeroVonics. That is a great question.


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They answered right away.  Still sounds really good to me if their timeline is accurate.  Here’s my email to them and then their response...

I’m really interested in the AV30 certified. Can you tell me what external connections are required? Just power, pitot, static? Are the oat and gps optional? Also, what happens if it loses pitot/static (like pitot tube ices)... does the attitude still function or does it fail? Thanks!

 

Hi Drew,

 

The only required connections are power and pitot/static.  The OAT, GPS and Audio Outputs are all optional.  When loss of pitot/static occurs, there may be slight pitch errors during takeoff and landing (roll-out on the runway).  Perhaps slightly degraded performance in flight, but it’s very subtle.  Also, airspeed or altitude will be incorrect, as will related TAS and DALT computations.

[pinerunner]

I just downloaded the simulator for the AV-20 and I'm sold. Given the price it will be my next clock. I was thinking about the rationale that it isn't a "permanent clock" since it could do other things. I'm in IFR training and just started using my old fashioned clock in a more serious way, timing procedure turns, holding patterns, simple VOR approaches (yes I have a simple VOR) and the like. All of it would have been easier with the AV-20, which can do countdowns, countups, and then back to regular time (or GMT, UT, ZULU if you like). Even if you do something else with it you get the time immediately with the push of a button. There is no suffering in it's function as a clock. I acknowledge that there might be some twit at the FAA who might choose to interpret the regs in a way that would bar me from having the best possible clock in that spot but given the low cost I plan on going for it and saving my antique clock just in case. Maybe I can mount it in a hunk of rosewood and put it on my desk or make it look like a mini-grandfatherclock.

 

Opps wrong thread. A three looks a little like a two if you read them quick enough.

Edited February 27, 2019 by pinerunner

[aviatoreb]

I just ran across this thread and I never heard of this AV30 until now but looks superb.  As I announced like a week and a half ago my KI256 just went belly up and it is currently in the overhaul shop.  If this AV30 thing had been available right now, I would definitely have done this, and the price including the autopilot interface box is very close to the price of a single visit to the overhaul shop for a KI256 overhaul.

[jamesm]

Silly question I  suppose that I should know the answer. but does anybody know how many of these pneumatic to digital devices along with the airspeed, altimeter,vsi,  can be hung off the existing  pitot/static system(lines) ? I am thinking with all the electronics whether it be G5's,AV20/AV30,Aspen, Altitude encoder,.....that some of us are adding to our planes seems like there would be  some sort connection loss. that might induce error in remaining round dial analog instruments .